Electrical Box for a Hardwood Floor

[Junkman]

I need to install a couple of electrical boxes in the floor, along side of a brick wall. When the home was built, the mason forgot to put the electrical boxes into the brickwork, and for 30 plus years, we never had anything on that wall that required electricity. Times are changing, so I have to install at least 2 or 3 boxes in the floor for lamps, etc.
What I am asking for, is recommendations as to quality brands and ease of installation. We will be having a hardwood (hickory) floor installed in the next couple of weeks, and I would like to have them in place prior to the flooring, since I don't want to risk messing up the new floor.

 

[stage20]

i cant tell you a brand of box, but as a flooring installer, have yourself (or if you hired an electrician) to use a piece of wood before its installed and precut the height of the pipe for the outlet to set in.

i see it every other day, electrician will leave the pipe high, then come to cut it flush after the floor is installed and damage it with his sawsall.

 

[Junkman]

There is a cellar under the floor, so there should be no need for a pipe that I know of.
The other question that I forgot to ask, I will need to drill through the floor joists to get the wire through to the panel. Where is the best place in the joist (top, middle, bottom area) to drill the hole for the wire?

 

[matt_i]

You want to drill the middle 1/3 of the height of the joist.

 

[budmur]

The other question that I forgot to ask, I will need to drill through the floor joists to get the wire through to the panel. Where is the best place in the joist (top, middle, bottom area) to drill the hole for the wire?

Generally, in the top or middle is better, but for a 1" hole to run some romex, it doesn't really matter. If it's a larger cut, keep to the top, and don't remove more than 1/4 of the joist.

 

[larry4406]

Generally, in the top or middle is better, but for a 1" hole to run some romex, it doesn't really matter. If it's a larger cut, keep to the top, and don't remove more than 1/4 of the joist.

Negative. Joists are beams. They flex thru bending and shear. Dead center is the neutral axis (term for flexural stress). Accordingly drill thru the center where the bending stress will be essentially zero.

 

[Showkey]

This one is easy install:

 

[rsanter]

IMO
Look up commercial floor boxes.
If it was me I think I would install a larger box under the floor. Then install the electrical box in that enclosure box.
Then you will have a top with a hinged lid that you can flip up to plug things in. All you need is a finger sized notch to be able to flip the lid up and use the same notch to run the cord out of.
This will look better and I think it will be easier to cover and hide with the wood flooring

Bob

 

[bczygan]

 

[Norcal]

Try here: http://ecatalog.hubbell-wiring.com/...x?Dest=hubbell-wiring.com/press/catalog/o.pdf

Page 28. There are quite a few options there, but HD has carried floor boxes for wood floors, so may be cheaper that way+have the product on hand quicker.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Is the brick on an exterior wall?

 

[Zeke]

Try here: http://ecatalog.hubbell-wiring.com/...x?Dest=hubbell-wiring.com/press/catalog/o.pdf

Page 28. There are quite a few options there, but HD has carried floor boxes for wood floors, so may be cheaper that way+have the product on hand quicker.

I looked at those as I have 2 to do and they are like $55 ea.! I'm thinking of a simple handy box with an oak cover that I will set into the floor with a router.

But the question is ... do floor boxes necessarily have to have a provision to close off with a screw down or flip cover? Or can they be open upwards all the time even if a lamp cord or other device is not plugged in?

I know there are some restrictions in counter tops in kitchens and baths. I assume no one would put a floor box in a bath room (or kitchen for that matter).

 

[Junkman]

No, the brick is on an interior wall. The home was built using passive solar methods, that didn't work. In the middle of the home is a solid concrete block wall, that is faced on all sides with real bricks, from top to bottom. To support the wall of bricks, a steel angle iron was installed very close to the floor, and bolted into the supporting foundation. If the home were to have a fire, the wall would work like a fire break. There is no way to do anything with it, except to hang pictures on it.

 

[Norcal]

I looked at those as I have 2 to do and they are like $55 ea.! I'm thinking of a simple handy box with an oak cover that I will set into the floor with a router. .........................................................................................................................................................................

That not code compliant, box, and cover, needs to be listed by a NRTL for the purpose, site cobbled components do not cut it.

 

[budmur]

Negative. Joists are beams. They flex thru bending and shear. Dead center is the neutral axis (term for flexural stress). Accordingly drill thru the center where the bending stress will be essentially zero.

This is theoretically true, but the subfloor nailed to the joist makes it act more like a T than a classic box beam. Stresses are higher in the lower half of the joist.

 

[ltusler]

Check out these, height adjustable.
http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/floor-boxes/

 

[stage20]

I'd want a brass or brushed cover if I were going to do one. The plastic ones always seem to crack over time

 

[gregtwojeeps]

................... Lowes $37.98

 

[tfi racing]

I have a couple of these new in a box ,will send them out for a reasonable price...

Leviton 5250 receptacle old style,not tamperproof

 

[Marctrees]

Junkman - I was an electrical contractor in the Mpls. area for 20 yrs.

In residential, we always used the exact box that Gregtwojeeps showed, ($3)With a basic weatherproof cover ($4)

It was acceptible to all of my Inspectors.

You undo the mounting ears, and flip them over, so you cut the box into the subfloor and it projects upward 1/2" into the finish floor.

We called it a "Gangable" box, cause the sides come off and you can put however many boxes you need.

Make sure to get the full depth ones, something like 3 1/4".

Cover style we used - http://www.westsidewholesale.com/leviton-4976-gy.html

The only possible caveat here is I quit that trade 15 yrs ago, so things may have changed.

 

[Marctrees]

In residential installs, not one inspector ever mandated any of the millionaire's brass covers of any kind.

In commercial locations, then they usually did. Marc

 

[Marctrees]

If you want something better looking than the WP cover, if you search you will find brass alternatives, but be aware of HUGELY ranging $ for those.

In any case, you still just need the $3 box above.

Basically something like the Gregtwojeeps photo above. Marc

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Marctrees... the "merchant is not active" on your link. Give them call and wake them up.

 

[Zeke]

Marctrees... the "merchant is not active" on your link. Give them call and wake them up.

Same here.

 

[Marctrees]

OK this one works -

http://www.lowes.com/pd/Gampak-Metallic-Gray-1-Outlet-Weatherproof-Electrical-Outlet-Cover/1099067

 

[Norcal]

OK this one works -

http://www.lowes.com/pd/Gampak-Metallic-Gray-1-Outlet-Weatherproof-Electrical-Outlet-Cover/1099067

That would look so nice against a hardwood floor.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

OK this one works -

http://www.lowes.com/pd/Gampak-Metallic-Gray-1-Outlet-Weatherproof-Electrical-Outlet-Cover/1099067

Is that suppose to be a joke?

Gray surface mount WP plate on top of nice hardwood?

U must be joking!

 

[Marctrees]

Joke? It will probably be hidden by furniture.

No, not a joke.

It's called bang for the buck.

If you got $ to blow through, then get something different that will impress not only yourself, but the Jones's and Johnsons as well. Marc

 

[Junkman]

That would look so nice against a hardwood floor.

I have shown my wife electrical boxes from the low range of approximately $35 to a high of about $200, and there hasn't been one of them that she is impressed with.
While reading this thread, I realized that I have the perfect solution to the problem. All that I have to do is to build a box under the floor to accommodate the electrical box, and cover it with a flush mount egg crate floor grille. When you want to plug something in, you lift the grate up, and drop the cord through the egg crate, and plug into the electrical box below. I am going to call the company that makes these egg crates, and see if they will do a couple of custom ones for me. I might not have described this exactly, since it is still in the development stage in my mind, but I will do a follow up post, when I get more information.

Edit... did a search for "wooden desk grommet", and found this item (below). Now, if I can get the company that makes the wooden egg crates to make a smaller version, with a top that would lift out, like the egg crate does, and would have a wooden desk grommet drilled into the lift out portion, it would solve the problem. Set the cord through the grommet hole, and reinsert the grommet into the removable portion of the floor section, and plug the wire into the electrical box that is mounted below. Problem solved!!

 

[landyacht]

Legrand makes the wiremold brand that are a little more pricey, but perhaps a little more visually appealing for you -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOPGREENER-...lex-20A-Receptacle-Outlet-Steel-/261440458959

 

[alfredeneuman]

All that I have to do is to build a box under the floor to accommodate the electrical box, and cover it with a flush mount egg crate floor grille. When you want to plug something in, you lift the grate up, and drop the cord through the egg crate, and plug into the electrical box below.
Problem solved!!

Not Quite

NEC 400.8 Uses not permitted
(2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings,
suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors

 

[Norcal]

Legrand has a large number of products for installation in wood floors, always preferred Hubbell, but Legrand has many more options.

http://www.legrand.us/categories/electricalwiringdevices/boxes/floor-boxes.aspx

There are enough products available in the market, so there is no need to hillbilly engineer a solution, never install these & forgot that had a couple of them looks quite versatile.

http://www.legrand.us/passandseymour/floor-boxes/wood-floors/rectangular/tm1542box.aspx

 

[Junkman]

Not Quite

NEC 400.8 Uses not permitted
(2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings,
suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors

You can't run cords in suspended ceilings or other “out-of-sight areas” (Fig. 1 above). Why is it OK to wire a luminaire with a cord when it's in the open, but not OK to use that same cord in a suspended ceiling? When a cord isn't in a concealed space, you can inspect it for damage caused by insects and rodents. Inside a suspended ceiling, these pests can chew through the cord and create a fire hazard you may not discover until it's too late. However, you can put cords within a raised floor not used for environmental air because this isn't considered a concealed space. See Art. 100 for the definition of “exposed.”

Looks like I have found the solution to the problem. Put some plywood under the joists, and cut a small hand hole in the floor to plug the cord into..... Unless you or someone else can find a fly in the ointment ...

 

[alfredeneuman]

Does that qualify as a raised floor ?
Is it built over another floor?

 

[Junkman]

I would interpret this as the box not being accessible from the floor below, so if I screw plywood to the underneath, and mount a box on top of that plywood, it will not be accessible from the floor below. As long as it is done correctly, I can't see how this is going to be a problem. It will look exactly like what is pictured in my post above, and it is only for a lamp cord to be plugged in, not an extension cord.

 

[alfredeneuman]

See the definition for "Raised Floor"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_floor
It doesn't say anything about it not being accessible from the floor below as a qualification.
The final decision is going to be up to the building inspector.

 

[Brian_WK]

Some nice cheap options
https://www.alconlighting.com/electrical/floor-boxes-floor-plates.html
OK not cheap but look nice!

Brian