Electrical box for wall sconce lights located between studs

[gamp945]

Hi all,

I am wiring a few new electrical boxes for wall sconce lights. The lights need to be located in between studs (rather than attached directly to a stud) for aesthetic reasons.

What is the code-compliant way to do this?

I don't want to use "old work" boxes that attach to the drywall - too flimsy.

The sturdiest boxes that I can think of are ceiling fan boxes - but the ones I can find for sale are not UL rated for vertical use in a wall cavity and the manufacturers state to not use it in a vertical/wall application.

I could just add some blocking in between the studs and then attach a metal octagon box - is that code-compliant?

How is this normally accomplished during new construction?

Thanks for reading!

 

[Bert_]

Of course it's fine add some blocking. You just need something to attach the box to.

 

[The Cobbler]

new construction they add blocking.
you can do the same. cut out your opening, screw blocking to both sides and anchor the box to that. a little bit of patience/measuring etc can make it virtually unnoticeable ( as in no repairs needed )

 

[gamp945]

Blocking sounds like the winner. I've got open stud bays right now so that's easy to do. Would you all use a metal octagon box?

 

[The Cobbler]

yupper

 

[Bert_]

Use whatever your using for the rest of the lights

 

[Norcal]

How wide is the canopy of the fixture, weight of the sconce?, personally a 2X4 block between the studs, & mount a 4X4 box with a desired plaster ring 1/8" deeper then the drywall thickness, which keeps the ring from being set back from the finished surface. I have no fondness for octagon boxes myself.

 

[Joemctag]

It probably needs to be fastened well enough for the inspector. So maybe a 1x4 or 3/4 plywood spanning the stud bay and fastened to cleats (blocks of wood) fastened to the studs. This is behind the box. I usually do that even if one side’s fastened to am stud or joist. I don’t do it on 2” wide boxes. When they use a plug, I don’t want the receptacle to move at all. Lots of loose boxes out there, but it doesn’t have to be that way in your own house. Good luck!

 

[sparky 1971]

I use octagon boxes with the bar hanger.

 

[cybrdyke]

It's called a "between the stud bracket". Pretty well named. RACO, Caddy, etc... make them and are readily available.

 

[Noltz]

I used blocking to move 2 gang outlet box where needed.

 

[nadogail]

Sometimes we need to be creative in order to get the job done.

 

[rburke65]

As pictured in post #9

 

[Innovate1]

Could be wrong but I think the bar hanger in post 9 is for ceiling use and won't resist twisting from the weight of a fixture in a wall application. It might work for a lightweight fixture but the drywall will hold the box up. I did 1 x 6 behind 4 x 4 boxes in the walls - not for lights but the same would work fine for light boxes and be sturdy. If it fits reasonably tight between studs then two nails through the studs into each end of the 1 x 6 will fasten it well for all but massive fixtures.

 

[yeldogt]

I have always used blocking ... with 2x6 walls 2x is easy on the flat ... it works with 2x4 walls with a thinner box .. my new build has a lot of pocket doors .. pancake needed w 5/8 rock

 

[larry4406]

Flat blocking between studs and a round pancake box.

 

[csp]

Make sure that whatever box you choose will be covered by the escutcheon plate of the light you're using.

My electrician didn't do this.

 

[sparky 1971]

Could be wrong but I think the bar hanger in post 9 is for ceiling use and won't resist twisting from the weight of a fixture in a wall application. It might work for a lightweight fixture but the drywall will hold the box up. I did 1 x 6 behind 4 x 4 boxes in the walls - not for lights but the same would work fine for light boxes and be sturdy. If it fits reasonably tight between studs then two nails through the studs into each end of the 1 x 6 will fasten it well for all but massive fixtures.

It will be fine. I have installed dozens using that style box and hanger. The bar hanger does have a little twist to it, but the fixture will be sucked up tight to the drywall, which will eliminate any twisting that could happen.

Flat blocking between studs and a round pancake box.

No way. When the sconce has a threaded stud that it hangs from, the stud hits the back of the box before the nut gets tight. Then a knockout has to get pulled out and a hole drilled into the blocking for the stud to recess into. Only use pancake boxes when the the location for the fixture winds up on framing and it HAS to go there. Such as centered on a window and there is a joist there. Pancakes on blocking aren't bad for ceiling fans though.

 

[yeldogt]

It will be fine. I have installed dozens using that style box and hanger. The bar hanger does have a little twist to it, but the fixture will be sucked up tight to the drywall, which will eliminate any twisting that could happen.



No way. When the sconce has a threaded stud that it hangs from, the stud hits the back of the box before the nut gets tight. Then a knockout has to get pulled out and a hole drilled into the blocking for the stud to recess into. Only use pancake boxes when the the location for the fixture winds up on framing and it HAS to go there. Such as centered on a window and there is a joist there. Pancakes on blocking aren't bad for ceiling fans though.

You just use a short thread stud ? They make them just for this reason ...

 

[gamp945]

Wow - thanks for all the replies guys!

I actually removed existing boxes like the one pictured in post #9. As far as I can tell, they are not approved by the manufacture nor UL listed for use in the wall. With that said, I do think they hold up fine when supported by drywall and don't twist out of shape with reasonably heavy fixtures.

I decided to install a 2x4 in between the studs and fastened a 4" octagon box to it. Very sturdy. I used pocket screws so that I could be very exact in its placement - I'm not very accurate with my nail gun when toenailing. I recessed it just enough so that it will be about flush with the finished wall surface (tile).

Look OK to you? I am not an electrical pro!

 

[sparky 1971]

You just use a short thread stud ? They make them just for this reason ...

Not really all that convenient to go rummage through the truck or run to the supply house to get a shorter stud when you could have installed a regular depth box.

 

[sparky 1971]

Wow - thanks for all the replies guys!

I actually removed existing boxes like the one pictured in post #9. As far as I can tell, they are not approved by the manufacture nor UL listed for use in the wall. With that said, I do think they hold up fine when supported by drywall and don't twist out of shape with reasonably heavy fixtures.

I decided to install a 2x4 in between the studs and fastened a 4" octagon box to it. Very sturdy. I used pocket screws so that I could be very exact in its placement - I'm not very accurate with my nail gun when toenailing. I recessed it just enough so that it will be about flush with the finished wall surface (tile).

Look OK to you? I am not an electrical pro!

It will work. The boxes you removed would have been fine though. Here is the manufactures spec sheet. For all the naysayers, notice it says for ceiling or wall mount fixtures.

 

[csp]

I used pocket screws so that I could be very exact in its placement - I'm not very accurate with my nail gun when toenailing.

Why didn't you just drive a screw/nail straight into the blocking piece, through the studs on either side of it? Looks like both stud bays are wide open to do that, at least for the one pictured.

 

[yeldogt]

Not really all that convenient to go rummage through the truck or run to the supply house to get a shorter stud when you could have installed a regular depth box.

I have found the bar hanging type move ... proper backing and screws make for a solid, secure and no movement when something has to be exact.

Having the correct part is "part" of some jobs .... on production jobs all the small stuff is tossed out the window

 

[sparky 1971]

I have found the bar hanging type move ... proper backing and screws make for a solid, secure and no movement when something has to be exact.

Having the correct part is "part" of some jobs .... on production jobs all the small stuff is tossed out the window

I have found that the bar hanger type don't move once the drywall is installed. As long as the ends of the bar are secure and the set screw is tight, it isn't going anywhere. And it also won't go anywhere side to side or up and down before rock either, but someone could grab it and twist if they wanted to. And... it's rated for 50 lbs at 16" centers. Only 10 lbs at 24" centers, but I have yet to install a sconce on a 24" wall or a sconce that weighs more than 10 lbs. I am willing to bet I have installed far more than you, so you can do what you want in your own house, and I will continue to install my way and get paid for it in other homes.

As far as the having the correct part, I agree. However, I don't supply the fixtures. Threaded mounting ******* are part of the fixture and come with them, so I don't keep any on hand; why should I? There may be one or two floating around in my van, but then again, maybe not. I suppose if I had an open stud bay and was dumb enough to use a pancake box where I didn't need to, the shorter fixture stud would be my responsibility. I would probably pull the center knockout out of the box and drill a hole for the stud to recess into instead.