Electrical Install

[sansert]

Ok, Let me ask this simple question first before I get into more details. Installing a 60 amp subpanel in garage. we ran 2 inch PVC from house to garage over 2ft deep. The electrical pulled in a 6-3 with ground. It is a Romex type NM-B. Inspector says they cannot do that because there is a ground wire inside the jacket. Pretty sure he also said that the cable used was not meant to be run underground even in PVC. I live in Louisville Ky. electrician from very reputable company here in town says they do this all the time with no problems. So i am not sure what to do at this point. Open to easy fix suggestions.

 

[PCustoms]

No clue what the inspector is referring to about the 6-3 with ground. Nm-b cannot be used in wet locations ( for example underground).

Post a pic of the wire.

How far is the run?

Pull the wire and run new wire in the conduit. 4 pcs thwn.

 

[sansert]

PCustoms,

The run is about 80ft total

Electrical is gonna try to meet inspector to ask why this is no longer acceptable. He says they have done hundreds of garages like this and no inspection issues.

If NM-B cannot be used underground, even in PVC conduit, then I guess they are gonna have to repull with the THWN

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Ok, Let me ask this simple question first before I get into more details. Installing a 60 amp subpanel in garage. we ran 2 inch PVC from house to garage over 2ft deep. The electrical pulled in a 6-3 with ground. It is a Romex type NM-B. Inspector says they cannot do that because there is a ground wire inside the jacket. Pretty sure he also said that the cable used was not meant to be run underground even in PVC. I live in Louisville Ky. electrician from very reputable company here in town says they do this all the time with no problems. So i am not sure what to do at this point. Open to easy fix suggestions.

The electrician is an idiot. Doesnt matter how many times he has done it. Doesn't make it any more correct...

NM has NEVER been permitted for use outdoors or underground, whether it's in conduit or not.

Now im not sure what the inspector is referring to with the ground wire but he is correct on the cable not being permitted for use underground.

Tell mr "reputable electrician" to open his code book for once and read 334.10(A)(1) and 334.(B)(4), which specifically says:

(B) Type NM and NMS Types NM and NMS cables shall not be used under the following conditions or in the following locations:

• (4) In wet or damp locations

There is no "easy fix" for this one....

Tell mr electrician to replace the NM-b with THWN-2 on HIS DIME!! oh and suggest he take a code class... this is pretty basic stuff......

I'd give a heads up to the inspector as well. There's gonna be 100 some customers with ****** non-compliant installs.

Did the electrician at least isolate the neutral bar, install a ground bar and 2 ground rods at the garage?

 

[Innovate1]

What Wyliediesels said! What makes you think this is a reputable company? Since you say you are in a big city I am surprised they say they do it all the time. Something I might expect by hacks in the country where there are no inspectors. Lots of people say they are experts, some are just hacks that try to convince you they are good. Better keep an eye on this guy and check his work.

 

[Norcal]

Agree that the install is wrong, any conduit underground or outdoors is a wet location, NM cable is for dry locations ONLY, and a reputable company would not have done that, and they need to fix it on their dime.

 

[mobetta]

you sure its nm-b and not ugf??

 

[Chris130]

you sure its nm-b and not ugf??

Even if it does turn out to be UF, it would be equally concerning that a pro outfit would opt to run UF through conduit.

If I was OP, I'd try to claw back a refund from the clowns that did this install and either DIY or get a different company to do it right. I wouldn't want these same guys coming back to "fix" anything - based on events so far, I wouldn't trust anything they do.

 

[Toolfool]

Be sure to thank the inspector for catching the mistake (points for you).

 

[ddawg16]

Pulling NM in conduit?

Besides being wrong....why?

3 #6 THWN's stranded along with a ground would be a WHOLE lot easier to pull than that NM-B....and most likely cheaper.

Correct me if I'm wrong....but, THWN/THHN is cheaper than the same volume/size of NM-B.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

you sure its nm-b and not UF-b??

fixed it for you :thumbup

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Pulling NM in conduit?

Besides being wrong....why?

3 #6 THWN's stranded along with a ground would be a WHOLE lot easier to pull than that NM-B....and most likely cheaper.

Correct me if I'm wrong....but, THWN/THHN is cheaper than the same volume/size of NM-B.

i just priced it out and its maybe $50-$75 cheaper...

 

[ddawg16]

i just priced it out and its maybe $50-$75 cheaper...

That's enough to buy a 500' roll of THHN 12g. Adds up over time.

I had one electrician tell me his company only used 12g for all the house wiring. The diff between 12 & 14 NM was not that much and it was easier to keep the the truck stocked with the one size.

 

[sansert]

Guys thanks for all the replies. Sometimes things get put on the back burner when your wife has cancer. OK so I made the electricians pull that cable out and we agreed that I was not paying for it. They have now installed 3 #6 from garage to house, THWN. Hooked up in garage panel as 2 hots and a neutral. No ground wire. At the garage panel, the jumper between the neutral bar and the ground bar was previously removed but now is back in place. Ground rod is installed outside of garage. I put in a call to inspector to ask him if this is going to fly but havent gotten a return call. Im not holding my breath that he will call me back. Electrician says this is ok but they are also the ones that pulled romex under ground. I simply want what the electrical inspector says is OK and also the safest way. My original post stated that I was installing a 60 amp subpanel in the garage coming off a 60 amp breaker in the house panel. That is still the case. Thanks for your replies

 

[ddawg16]

Guys thanks for all the replies. Sometimes things get put on the back burner when your wife has cancer. OK so I made the electricians pull that cable out and we agreed that I was not paying for it. They have now installed 3 #6 from garage to house, THWN. Hooked up in garage panel as 2 hots and a neutral. No ground wire. At the garage panel, the jumper between the neutral bar and the ground bar was previously removed but now is back in place. Ground rod is installed outside of garage. I put in a call to inspector to ask him if this is going to fly but havent gotten a return call. Im not holding my breath that he will call me back. Electrician says this is ok but they are also the ones that pulled romex under ground. I simply want what the electrical inspector says is OK and also the safest way. My original post stated that I was installing a 60 amp subpanel in the garage coming off a 60 amp breaker in the house panel. That is still the case. Thanks for your replies

Bro....my thoughts to you and your wife.....I know about that 'C' thang...

I had my prostate removed 4 years ago....caught it early....so everything else still works.

Then last march I had a folic lymphoma cancer on my scalp....15 radiation treatments took care of that.....and what little hair I had left.

 

[brewchief]

3 wire feeds like that were allowed in the past, I think around 2008 the code changed to prohibit them, needs a ground wire and the neutral and ground bars separated.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[sansert]

Brewchief, thank you.

ddawg16, well I hope all is well with you now. My wife will be on chemo or some form of treatment the rest of her life. Its a rough road for both of us. The 2nd floor of this garage was built for her to have an art and quilting studio. Just trying to get done so she can begin to use it

 

[ddawg16]

Brewchief, thank you.

ddawg16, well I hope all is well with you now. My wife will be on chemo or some form of treatment the rest of her life. Its a rough road for both of us. The 2nd floor of this garage was built for her to have an art and quilting studio. Just trying to get done so she can begin to use it

Good for you my friend.....sounds like your wife has a good husband

 

[Norcal]

3 wire feeds like that were allowed in the past, I think around 2008 the code changed to prohibit them, needs a ground wire and the neutral and ground bars separated.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

This being done by Clown Electric? I Realize your not the OP but this install is a comedy of errors.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Guys thanks for all the replies. Sometimes things get put on the back burner when your wife has cancer. OK so I made the electricians pull that cable out and we agreed that I was not paying for it. They have now installed 3 #6 from garage to house, THWN. Hooked up in garage panel as 2 hots and a neutral. No ground wire. At the garage panel, the jumper between the neutral bar and the ground bar was previously removed but now is back in place. Ground rod is installed outside of garage. I put in a call to inspector to ask him if this is going to fly but havent gotten a return call. Im not holding my breath that he will call me back. Electrician says this is ok but they are also the ones that pulled romex underground. I simply want what the electrical inspector says is OK and also the safest way. My original post stated that I was installing a 60 amp subpanel in the garage coming off a 60 amp breaker in the house panel. That is still the case. Thanks for your replies

Electrician is still wrong. VERY wrong. sounds like he hasnt taken a continued education class since the 2005 code cycle, as 3-wire feeds are no longer allowed as of 2008. Tell him to buy a new code book and study it.

Also, print out a copy of the 4-wire detached feed diagram in post #3 on here and show it to him.

This being done by Clown Electric? I Realize your not the OP but this install is a comedy of errors.

No, not clown electric, CIRCUS Electric. The clowns work for the circus

 

[Norcal]

Electrician is still wrong. VERY wrong. sounds like he hasnt taken a continued education class since the 2005 code cycle, as 3-wire feeds are no longer allowed as of 2008. Tell him to buy a new code book and study it.

Also, print out a copy of the 4-wire detached feed diagram in post #3 on here and show it to him.



No, not clown electric, CIRCUS Electric. The clowns work for the circus

Clown Electric was a bad choice, more like the "installers" were named Larry, Curly, & Moe.