Electrical panel clearance requirements?

[DieselPills]

I'm building some new stairs in my shop and the only place to put them runs them sort of in front of the breaker panel. There will only be about 18" between the panel and the stair stringers. Enough to open the door and work on things if needed, but a little tight.

I'm just wondering if there is a code requirement to keep a clear space a certain size in front of the panel? My google search has been inconclusive...

 

[MTW]

1) Depth of Working Space. The depth of the working
space in the direction of live parts shall not be less than that
specified in Table 110.26(A)(1) unless the requirements of
110.26(A)(1)(a), (A)(1)(b), or (A)(1)(c) are met. Distances
shall be measured from the exposed live parts or from the
enclosure or opening if the live parts are enclosed.


(2) Width of Working Space. The width of the working
space in front of the electrical equipment shall be the width
of the equipment or 762 mm (30 in.), whichever is greater.
In all cases, the work space shall permit at least a 90 degree
opening of equipment doors or hinged panels.

(3) Height of Working Space. The work space shall be
clear and extend from the grade, floor, or platform to a height
of 2.0 m (61⁄2 ft) or the height of the equipment, whichever is
greater. Within the height requirements of this section, other
equipment that is associated with the electrical installation and
is located above or below the electrical equipment shall be
permitted to extend not more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond the
front of the electrical equipment.

(B) Clear Spaces. Working space required by this section
shall not be used for storage. When normally enclosed live
parts are exposed for inspection or servicing, the working
space, if in a passageway or general open space, shall be
suitably guarded.

MTW Ω

 

[Redwolf947]

I asked a different question but here might be some answers.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=283600

 

[Mustang51js]

Legally you need 30 inches of clearance from front of panel

 

[reader2580]

If you have the electrical permitted the inspector will check the clearance if there is any question. When I built my previous house the inspector failed the electrical final because the plumber had put the water heater one inch too close to the panel. It was the plumber's fault because the panel was there probably a month before the water heater.

 

[alfredeneuman]

What MTW said, in picture form:

The panel doesn't need to be centered at the middle of the horizontal workspace. The 30" required can be from either edge of the panel

 

[DieselPills]

Thanks for the info.

If I was able to move the stairs a little bit and make it so the stringer goes right below the panel, and 30" of work space is available while standing on the stairs, would that work?

 

[frankush]

No. Look at the drawing above. This requirement is one of the most important in the code, in my opinion, and it's crapped on all the time. It is there for the safety of those that have to work in the panel. Move the stairs or move the panel.

 

[Jlarson]

If your area is on 08 or newer panel over stairs is a no go.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Cannot make it any clearer than these or the one alfredenewman posted.

 

[Norcal]

240.24(2)(F) 2014 NEC prohibits overcurrent devices over steps, "Overcurrent devices shall not be located over the steps of a stairway."

 

[larry_g]

You could consider a pull down stair or a otherwise movable set. It could be a gray area but workable. Post 2 item be says no storage, but movable stairs is not mentioned.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[DieselPills]

No. Look at the drawing above. This requirement is one of the most important in the code, in my opinion, and it's crapped on all the time. It is there for the safety of those that have to work in the panel. Move the stairs or move the panel.

Sorry, but this is a really ignorant comment. There would be nothing unsafe about what I proposed - against code maybe - but not unsafe. Maybe you didn't understand what I said. Code does not always make sense. There would be PLENTY of safe access for the panel. I am the only guy that is ever going to work in the panel, and I would build the stairs to fit to my own liking. There would be nothing "unsafe" about it.

If you think code = safe and not code = not safe I feel very sorry for you. I am going to follow code in this situation but not because I am worried about anybody's safety. I am the only person that will ever work on any part of this. Modern NEC makes about as much sense as the current tax code.

You could consider a pull down stair or a otherwise movable set. It could be a gray area but workable. Post 2 item be says no storage, but movable stairs is not mentioned.

I have thought about that.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

One problem with your line of thinking is that down the road if u sell the place they can nail u on that and then u gotta fix it before u can sell.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Unfortunately, code will always override what we perceive as safety. Especially as wyliesdeisels said. The codes were written for a reason, and usually because the NEC is trying to make it safer.

The NEC codes may not make sense to some people, but they have to be followed or you can get into trouble when you go and sell your home.

We may hate some of these codes, and think to ourselves what the hell were they thinking, or they only put that in there to sell more wire, or my god, were they on drugs when they put that in there!

But you have to abide by them. If you go to sell your house in the future, and the people buying it have a really code compliant inspector, then it will cost a lot more to fix it once it's in there, then it would have been to comply with the code now and do it per code.

I hate codes too, but I follow them, because when I do my own work around my house I don't want someone coming back at me if I sell the place, saying this was done wrong and I think he should pay big bucks to fix it because it does not meet code.

Pay now or pay more later. It's up to you.

Jim

 

[frankush]

Sorry, but this is a really ignorant comment. There would be nothing unsafe about what I proposed - against code maybe - but not unsafe. Maybe you didn't understand what I said. Code does not always make sense. There would be PLENTY of safe access for the panel. I am the only guy that is ever going to work in the panel, and I would build the stairs to fit to my own liking. There would be nothing "unsafe" about it.

If you think code = safe and not code = not safe I feel very sorry for you. I am going to follow code in this situation but not because I am worried about anybody's safety. I am the only person that will ever work on any part of this. Modern NEC makes about as much sense as the current tax code.


I have thought about that.

I guess you've never seen a panel that's gone up in smoke, due to an arc flash. I've worked with other electricians that have had panels blow up in their faces. The only thing they did was attempt to remove the cover. It's your property and you can do whatever you like, but you asked the question.

You may hold the belief that the code is not all about safety. I quote from the 2011 version of the NEC, Article 90.1(A) Practical Safeguarding.

"The purpose of this code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from the hazards arising from the use of electricity."

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I guess you've never seen a panel that's gone up in smoke, due to an arc flash. I've worked with other electricians that have had panels blow up in their faces. The only thing they did was attempt to remove the cover. It's your property and you can do whatever you like, but you asked the question.

You may hold the belief that the code is not all about safety. I quote from the 2011 version of the NEC, Article 90.1(A) Practical Safeguarding.

"The purpose of this code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from the hazards arising from the use of electricity."

Ive actually had a panel smoke and flash on me. The whole panel didnt go up in flames luckily, but i got blown back some.

I was in the process of removing the deadfront and all of a sudden FLASH! No breakers tripped and i could hear the 200a main buzzing and rattling like crazy.

After i let it sit there for a day, i carefully removed the deadfront to find that a branch circuit wire had gotten snagged on the deadfront screw. Some ***** had used the wrong size screw(too long) and it had snagged the wire.

Now i got to wondering why the breaker hadnt tripped. It was a punny 20a afterall. Turns out that the breaker for that circuit was the wrong brand(GE panel and i forgot the brand of breaker) and it fed a compressor. As i come to find out, the compressor had no disconnect and so the owner would use the breaker as disconnect which wore the breaker out.

Realizing that, I must have had HUNDREDS OF AMPS arcing in my face and the only thing that stopped it was the wire burning out. And this was on a 208v single phase panel.

Now imagine this haplening to u while your kneeling or squating on the stairs trying to work on your panel. I can just see the potential for you to get blown backwards off the stairs and land on your neck or back. Or get blown into the railing and get f'ed up!

Believe me. This code has a good safety reason!