electrical questions.

[trucker677]

Hi guys, I am a newbie at this.

I just built a garage 24x24x10 ft and now I want to install 8x 4 foot lights in the ceiling. the double type on three different light switches. I also want about 15 plug outlets around the garage, I don't need a 240 plug for anything but I do have a small mig welder which hardly ever gets used, I bought it for welding in patch panels, I have a small table saw and compound miter saw, whenever I am in the garage the radio will be on and lights, what type of wire should I be running in the walls, I am right in thinking 14/2 is too small or is that ok, the other thing I need to know is that from the panel in my house to my garage is 53 ft. what size and gauge of wire do I need for that, it will be buried underground in pcv pipe, what size of pipe do I need for that as well.

Thanks in advance for any help on this.

 

[Mustang51js]

Outlets should be 12-2 since it's a garage and lighting can be either 12-2 or 14-2

 

[bmxdad]

If your doing any work in it, bring in at least one 240v outlet. Hang it from the sub-panel if you need to, but you will eventually use it.

Why three light switches? I have a 24' x 36' and use just two. Are you going to use LED lights? T5HO? T8? If I had the chance to redo mine I'd go LED. I'm running T5HO currently. Light type will determine wire size, but with the T5HO I'm on 14/2.

Run 12/2 for 20amp outlets, and break each wall into it's own circuit.

What amperage are you bringing in? Again, bring in as much as you can ... I'd say 90amp min. An MHF (Mobile Home Feeder wire) will get you that, and could be directly buried.

Any pictures??

 

[theoldwizard1]

Outlets should be 12-2 since it's a garage and lighting can be either 12-2 or 14-2

If your doing any work in it, bring in at least one 240v outlet. Hang it from the sub-panel if you need to, but you will eventually use it.

+2 !

 

[trucker677]

I plan on running the T8 lights, three rows, 2 lights in the center row evenly spaced from front to back and 3 lights between the center row and the outer edge on the side wall evenly spaced. I want a switch for the 1st row, 2nd row and 3rd row, (front to back),

work bench is on one side, the wall with my 16 work bench will have the most wall plugs. stuff like a dremel, lamp, heat gun, drill press will be there for that.

one wall has the man door and garage door so one plug there. other two walls will be 3 plugs per wall. I guess it would 60 amp what I would be bringing in to the garage. I think I am running 100 amp from house to sub panel and then 40 or 60 amp from there to everything else.

 

[FordTruckWench]

I plan on running the T8 lights, three rows, 2 lights in the center row evenly spaced from front to back and 3 lights between the center row and the outer edge on the side wall evenly spaced. I want a switch for the 1st row, 2nd row and 3rd row, (front to back)

With multiple light switches, install two breakers in consecutive locations in the panel. Run about half the lights from one breaker, i.e. from one hot feed. Run the rest of the lights from the other breaker, i.e. from the other hot feed. When they are all on, this is more efficient as the neutral currents will (partially) cancel. You'll lose very slightly less power in the wire and instead send it to the lights. You'll also better balance the load on your main breaker.

In my garage I have (or will have) 8 T8 fixtures each with 4 32W bulbs. That's 1024W total, but it is split into two circuits. With both banks on, that's 4.3 amps on one hot leg, zero on the neutral, and 4.3 amps on the other hot leg. If this was all going on one breaker, it would be 8.5 amps on a hot leg, 8.5 amps on the neutral, and nothing on the other hot leg.

 

[bmxdad]

... install two breakers in consecutive locations in the panel. Run about half the lights from one breaker, i.e. from one hot feed. Run the rest of the lights from the other breaker, i.e. from the other hot feed. When they are all on, this is more efficient as the neutral currents will (partially) cancel. You'll lose very slightly less power in the wire and instead send it to the lights. You'll also better balance the load on your main breaker ...

Are you talking about phasing?

 

[thewatusi]

Don't waste money on two breakers for the lights. For the amount of current they draw you will NEVER notice any discernable difference between all on one leg and split between the two.

I'd use 14awg for the lights one 15 amp breaker.
12awg for the outlets on two 20 amp breakers. Half the room on one, half on the other. Then run the appropriate guage for a 240v outlet for your welder.

 

[Zeke]

It won't hurt to run 12AWG for everything. Unless you have a pretty good idea of exactly how many feet of wire you need, buying one kind is the best way. You never know, you might want more lights. Don't skimp. If you have a 4th of the roll left uing some 14, you've paid for the difference to do it all in 12. (Not calculated to the penny )

 

[Notgrownup]

I am doing the same as you trucker, I went with 12/2 20 amp breakers. I will have 9 t8 double 4' on 1 breaker and 3 switches. The extra cost of 12/2 wasn't that bad.... Never have to worry now.

 

[FordTruckWench]

Are you talking about phasing?

Um, yes, I'm talking about splitting the lights between the "two phases". Essentially running the lights on 240 at half the current even though the individual fixtures still run on 120.

Don't waste money on two breakers for the lights. For the amount of current they draw you will NEVER notice any discernable difference between all on one leg and split between the two.

50A feed to the subpanel - 8.5A = 41.something available.
50A - 4.3A = 45.something.

The solution is a bigger feed into the subpanel...

 

[RPH]

More importantly with your lights on two breakers if you blow one you are not plunged into darkness. Think about that while using the table saw and the garage goes dark! Safety first, split your light circuits on separate breakers. Better low light than no light.

 

[trucker677]

thewhatusi mentioned about running 240 for my welder, It is only a small mig, 120 volt, it is only used to weld patch panel and rocker panels on cars with. occasionally 1/8 inch stock. nothing over 1/4 inch for sure. actually all my tools are 120. my plan is to have a 16 ft bench in the garage along one wall, that was why I was thinking of having a row of lights running along the same way as bench, that row of lights is on one switch, where I park my race truck would be another row, and another switch, the two lights in the center is just for when we gather in the summer I just have two lights in in the center, Hopefully it all makes sense, most of the time it be a grinder plugged in, a trouble light, drill press. nothing major.

 

[larry_g]

thewhatusi mentioned about running 240 for my welder, It is only a small mig, 120 volt, it is only used to weld patch panel and rocker panels on cars with. occasionally 1/8 inch stock. nothing over 1/4 inch for sure. actually all my tools are 120. my plan is to have a 16 ft bench in the garage along one wall, that was why I was thinking of having a row of lights running along the same way as bench, that row of lights is on one switch, where I park my race truck would be another row, and another switch, the two lights in the center is just for when we gather in the summer I just have two lights in in the center, Hopefully it all makes sense, most of the time it be a grinder plugged in, a trouble light, drill press. nothing major.

Your plan is perty short sighted. My first shop I though about like you are now and soon found that I out grew what I had. Now some 30 years later I have a 200 amp service to the shop and convert some of that to 3 phase to run the bigger tools.. At the time of the first shop build I didn't ever think 3 phase would be in my vocabulary, and now it is the norm.

So when we advise you to install 240 circuit it comes from experience. I would suggest that you have a small subpanel in the garage fed with a 60-80 amp 240v circuit and then as your needs grow you will have the foundation to grow your electrical needs easily.

lg
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