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Electrical service options?

hell_fish_65

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Apr 3, 2006
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185
Location
Outside of Austin TX
Do I have any options? My house is 1600sqft. And my shop is 1500sqft. What I have been told is that the shop is too big to run off the house, so the shop needs to get its own meter. Is that completely true? Could I upgrade the service to the house? Im a dummy with this stuff, but I want the most cost effective way to do this. Attached is my planned shop wiring. The shop is also over 100ft from the house. I would much rather have one bill that 2.

Please help! :bowdown: Thanks
 

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OldCarGuy

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Nov 29, 2005
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Ohio
It would cost you less each month on your electric bill with only one service in most area. I addition the second service may have another minimum and at a higher usage rate.

You didn’t say how big your main service is. If it’s not 200 Amp 240 Volt, I would upgrade the house to 200 Amp panel and install a 100 Amp branch service to the garage.
 

tsumner

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Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
27
I'm not quite done yet on my 24 x 48 2 story shop. My house is all electric with a 200 amp service. I installed a 400 amp service in the new garage and I have one meter for everything.

Go here... http://public.fotki.com/tsumner/manland/

There are a few photos of the service in the photo album there...

Terry
 
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hell_fish_65

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Apr 3, 2006
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Outside of Austin TX
House is 200 service. The house breaker box has 14 x 20 amp breakers, 2x30amp, and 1 40.

Thought I would add that all heat is propane.
 
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6768rogues

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Nov 28, 2007
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Western NY
I have a 200 amp service to my house and it feeds a 100 amp subpanel in my 1800 square foot garage. I do not heat with electric.
 

tomroblee

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Jan 11, 2006
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Indiapolis, IN
Determining the most cost effective option to power your shop depends on a number of variables.
If the combined load of your house and shop is 200 amps or less, you could use your existing service to run a sub-panel in the shop. You indicate that you have two 30 amp breakers and one 40 amp breakers in your house. These "heavy" circuits would power large consumption items like a central air conditioner, electic water heater, electric stove, or electric clothes dryer. If all these appliances were running at the same time, they would could use one half of your existing service by themselves. However, it is possible that you have wiring for electric appliances but actually use gas for water heating, cooking, and clothes drying. This would free up a large amount of power.

You don't indicate the maximum power you might need at your shop. If this is a one man shop, you may rarely be running multiple tools at the same time and electric consumption might be minimal---especially if the tools are extremely light duty. However, I suspect that this may not be the case. It is likely that a person who has such a large shop will have heavy duty tools, will keep the entire shop well lighted, and will sometimes have multiple tools running at the same time (A multi-horsepower dust collector will be running at the same time as the table saw. An air conditioning unit, water heater and/or air compressor may also be cycling at the same time.)

If you need more electricity than a branch from your existing service can provide, the choices are either to run a second service to the shop or to replace your existing service with a 400 amp service located at either your house or shop and run a sub service to the other building. As others have pointed out, adding a second service (meter) will almost surely cause you to pay a second "minimum" meter charge, and may make the electricity more expensive (Some, but not all, utilities lower the unit price as consumption increases. If you add consumption to an existing meter, it will be at the lowest rate. If you add a second meter, consumption on this meter will start out at the higher rate.)

Another consideration is what you electic utility will charge you to either add a second service at the shop, or to upgrade your service at either your house or shop. If you run a sub-panel in one building off a service in the other building, you will have to pay the entire cost of running the wire between the buildings. If you have to upgrade the existing service in order to have enough electricity, the utility will have to run larger wires into the upgraded service panel. The utility may or may not charge you for this service. Such a charge could be substantial--especially if your house is a long way from the utility's power lines and if your electric service is underground. If you add a second service to your shop, the utility may or may not charge you for installing the new service.

I would suggest that you need to discuss you plans with your electric utility and determine their rate structure and charges for adding a second service or upgrading your existing service. You then need to discuss the options with a licensed electrician and get an estimate of his charges for the various options. You also need to consider the costs and/or convenience of locating wires for each of the options.
 

rancherbill

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Oct 18, 2007
Messages
5,335
Location
Foothills County, Alberta, Canada
Do I have any options? My house is 1600sqft. And my shop is 1500sqft. What I have been told is that the shop is too big to run off the house, so the shop needs to get its own meter. Is that completely true? Could I upgrade the service to the house? Im a dummy with this stuff, but I want the most cost effective way to do this. Attached is my planned shop wiring. The shop is also over 100ft from the house. I would much rather have one bill that 2.

Please help! :bowdown: Thanks

Here's what I understand from doing for my acreage house and shop.

There are 2 issues in your problem. Capacity and Usage.

Capacity being being the total amount of power that you are using.

Look at the capacity of the total "system". What is the weakest link.

1) Transformer on the Pole
2) Wire Transformer to Meter.
3) Meter
4) Panel
5) To existing loads
6) To new loads.

Item 1 should be taken care of by the utility for no charge. Item 2 is you responsibility. Is there enough capacity for the new load? this might be why they are talking about a new service. It might be worthwhile to supersize this wire instead of getting and paying for a second service. Items 4, 5, and 6 are not big deals assuming a location in the panel to connect a subpanel.

You will find the limiting factor is probably the transformer and the wire to the house. Your extra load might be too much for the transformer or the wire based on the loads in your new configuration.

Usage is the total amount you are actually using. Around here a 'home" shop has different interpretation than a commercial shop. It is assumed that you will not be using all the circuits at once like a commercial shop that has many employees. Thus you might have a ton of breakers, but you might only really be using 45 amps - 15 for light and 30 for welder. Add up what you actually would be using at once.

I would probably put a small panel in the shop so you don't have to run into the house if you trip a breaker.

I don't think you need a meter. You need some real local advice on the capacity of your transformer, wire and main panel.
 

tontruck

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Feb 2, 2008
Messages
39
Location
where the bluegrass grows
get an NEC (national electric code) book, look for the section called "load calculation". You can follow the formula and determine how many amps your house is using. Figure out what you will have in your garage (outlets, heat, lighting circuits,.....) then do a load calc. on it. Add the two together and if it's more than 70% of the total amps in your service you will need to upgrade your house service or put a new service to the garage. If your transformer isn't big enough the electric company will most likely change it at no cost to you.
 

bigdav160

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Apr 14, 2007
Messages
2,027
Location
Deep in the heart of Texas
200 amp service on a 1600 sq/ft house that's heated with gas? How about water heater? Dryer? Stove?

By looking at your shop drawing I'd say you probably have plenty of service and just need to run a sub panel.
 
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hell_fish_65

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Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
185
Location
Outside of Austin TX
200 amp service on a 1600 sq/ft house that's heated with gas? How about water heater? Dryer? Stove?

By looking at your shop drawing I'd say you probably have plenty of service and just need to run a sub panel.

Water heater, central heat, oven and stove is all propane. The dryer is electric.
 

jdub63

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Jan 28, 2008
Messages
232
Location
Azle, Texas
I'm currently planning elect service to my shop. But the main underground service goes right by the shop location to the house. Has anyone had your service moved to the shop then service a sub-panel at the house?
 
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