Electrical service panel in bathroom code question

[getblown5.9]

Trying to sell our first house and when we bought it the inspector never made any note of the service panel location. It was in a closet in the bathroom off the living room because it's an older house with multiple additions/remodels before we purchased it. The closet only had bifold doors with a 24" wide opening. We have had two potential sales now fall through due to the major concern of the panel not meeting code due to location and clearance. Moving the panel would be a major undertaking and expense. It was suggested by an electrician to us that building a wall to separate the closet from bathroom and also removing the closet door frame to get the required 30" wide clearance in front of the panel would be cheaper and meet code. This would cut the bathroom size nearly in half and make it tiny. We had another electrician also tell us that using a sealed door for the closet would essentially make the closet a separate "room" and no longer a storage closet and this would also be legal, assuming the door allowed for 30" wide clearance space that extends 36" clear out in front of the panel.

Anyone had a similar issue and/or solution?

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[mike93lx]

No advice on the panel, but i would paint that bathroom before trying to sell.

 

[mm08822]

Whats on the other side of the wall? Could you spin 180 degrees so it is in the next room?

 

[getblown5.9]

Whats on the other side of the wall? Could you spin 180 degrees so it is in the next room?

Exterior wall with incoming services directly on opposite side. That option for doing an exterior weather rated panel and just flipping it the other way was nixed due to having to move the meter etc.

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[Git]

Just fixing the pics

 

[Git]

I am sure one of the 'experts' will be along...

In the meantime - this looks like the clearances you need. Perhaps you could cut the opening for the door back so that you just have a 'privacy' wall on the right (by the toilet) and something similar on the left?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Wow what a pain!

I dont think panels in baths were ever allowed...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Exterior wall with incoming services directly on opposite side. That option for doing an exterior weather rated panel and just flipping it the other way was nixed due to having to move the meter etc.

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Instead of moving the meter, why not just change to a meter main combination panel?

 

[Norcal]

Service disconnects are not allowed in any bathroom,230.70(2) and no panels are allowed in dwelling bathrooms, 240.24(E).

Wow what a pain!

I dont think panels in baths were ever allowed...

The 1993 NEC nixed panels in dwelling bathrooms, as long as there is not a service disconnect they are still allowed in non-residential bathrooms.

 

[Norcal]

No advice on the panel, but i would paint that bathroom before trying to sell.

Don't like the shades of institutional green?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

OP when was the remodeling done?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The 1993 NEC nixed panels in dwelling bathrooms, as long as there is not a service disconnect they are still allowed in non-residential bathrooms.

Aww ok that was before my days in the electrical trade...

 

[getblown5.9]

OP when was the remodeling done?

Prior to 2011 when we bought it. This house has been one nightmare after another. Half the house had no water shutoff, it tied right off the main coming from the front of the yard and up into this same bathroom, so no cold water shut off to bathroom or kitchen. He had a frost free installed at ground level that froze and leaked so bad the county billed me for 44000 gallons of water before I even knew it was leaking. Very poor wiring and circuits. I have spent a ton of money fixing many of these things. The guy we bought it from is a contractor who builds houses... Imagine that. The reason I am not moving the panel boils down to the fact that there are/were multiple open electrical permits from the previous owner and the electricians I spoke to have said that they will not even pull a permit and perform the work due to it opening a huge can of worms for them and me. That's why I want to go with the architectural solution that will satisfy home inspectors. At this point I do not need to have the local electrical inspector here to sign off anything, and I would like to keep it that way.

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[Shiftless]

Isn't all of that material information about the house that must be disclosed to a buyer anyway?

 

[acer66]

Hard to see but can you not extend the right wall to the panel so it makes the bathroom smaller put a door in it or not add the space to the hallway or make it a separate room?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Prior to 2011 when we bought it. This house has been one nightmare after another. Half the house had no water shutoff, it tied right off the main coming from the front of the yard and up into this same bathroom, so no cold water shut off to bathroom or kitchen. He had a frost free installed at ground level that froze and leaked so bad the county billed me for 44000 gallons of water before I even knew it was leaking. Very poor wiring and circuits. I have spent a ton of money fixing many of these things. The guy we bought it from is a contractor who builds houses... Imagine that. The reason I am not moving the panel boils down to the fact that there are/were multiple open electrical permits from the previous owner and the electricians I spoke to have said that they will not even pull a permit and perform the work due to it opening a huge can of worms for them and me. That's why I want to go with the architectural solution that will satisfy home inspectors. At this point I do not need to have the local electrical inspector here to sign off anything, and I would like to keep it that way.

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wow what a mess.

Did u not know about these issues before buying the place?

BTW many contractors are hacks so what he did is no surprise...

 

[getblown5.9]

OP when was the remodeling done?

Not sure, prior to our purchase in 2011.

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[zmaxmotorsports]

Wow what a pain!

I dont think panels in baths were ever allowed...

 

[mm08822]

Can panel be loacated dierctly below in basement?

 

[getblown5.9]

Isn't all of that material information about the house that must be disclosed to a buyer anyway?

I am not sure, but I would think so. A little late for me to try an fight it now, being 6 years after purchase. The big issue/giveaway that things were not done right was the garage that was built around 2007. 24x24 detached, with a subpanel that was improperly grounded. After the electrician inspected further he found the wire used to run from house to the garage was high dollar copper that was overkill, not the typical URD which is much cheaper and commonly used. Most likely leftovers or stolen from a job site where the contractor/previous owner was working, as it seemed he cut corners on everything else, and then installed some very expensive wire (installed improperly at that). There have been no signs of inspection stickers anywhere on either the house panel, or garage subpanel which lead my electrician to believe that there was never any final inspections done on the work. The previous owner also buried a 240v line out to the shed with no conduit or protection, and left it hanging out of the shed wall, with live ends unprotected.
I am really peeved about these obvious hazards as I paid for a home inspection when we bought this house and these are all items not noted by our inspector. Luckily, with fixing much of this hack's work I have learned a lot in recent years about what to look for and when we bought our current house I knew what to look for and we got a great buy.

Hard to see but can you not extend the right wall to the panel so it makes the bathroom smaller put a door in it or not add the space to the hallway or make it a separate room?

That was one suggestion, but by the time I framed a wall, put in a new door, move a light switch, add a new switch and light for the "hallway" I would have spent quite a bit of money and time, and made the bathroom so small you couldn't change your mind in there.

wow what a mess.

Did u not know about these issues before buying the place?

BTW many contractors are hacks so what he did is no surprise...

Nope, thanks to a shoddy home inspection during our purchase many of these issues only came to light recently when more thorough inspections were performed by potential buyers. 6 years ago we were the poor suckers who got the short end of the stick on what we thought was a great buy for a starter home.

Can panel be located directly below in basement?

No basement, only a crawlspace.

 

[06 DIESEL]

Having been in that room I would honestly frame a new wall and make it a closet on one side and the electrical on the other. I know that you will have time and money in the framing, drywall, etc. but in the long run that will get it from being in a bathroom, which is where the code gets you now, even though it was built prior to the code being changed.

 

[Falcon67]

That was one suggestion, but by the time I framed a wall, put in a new door, move a light switch, add a new switch and light for the "hallway" I would have spent quite a bit of money and time, and made the bathroom so small you couldn't change your mind in there.

IMHO, having owned several houses including ones that required extensive electrical/etc mods - you are going to take hit somewhere. It's going to be work you do now, or you're just going to take it on the sale. Your choice. I'd have a "real" inspection done by someone certified in the trade and then decide how much allowance on sale you'll be willing to give based on issues identified. Somewhere in the $3~5000+ range based on your descriptions. Any well qualified buyer will likely say "fix it" or walk, you might find one that bites on the allowance.

 

[Junkman]

Rather than starting a new question, along the same lines, is a sub panel that is located in a clothes closet allowed? Second half of the question, is if that clothes closet is located in a hallway that leads to the bathroom, is that OK, if the doorway to the hallway also is the same door to the bathroom? i.e. the closet is not accessible if someone were to close it when they entered the hallway going into the bathroom. If I am not clear on this, let me know, and I will attempt to clarify the situation with pictures. thanks

 

[alfredeneuman]

Junkman, no it's expressly forbidden

NEC 240.24(D)
(D) Not in Vicinity of Easily Ignitible Material. Overcurrent devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitible material, such as in clothes closets.

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ ^ Not allowed in closets . . . . but old **** still "grandfathered" in.

Friend's house in Arkansas was built in 70's and has it's only electrical panels are in the master bedroom closet up near the top. It's major PITA to clear **** out to gain access to the panel !!

 

[larry4406]

Exterior wall with incoming services directly on opposite side. That option for doing an exterior weather rated panel and just flipping it the other way was nixed due to having to move the meter etc.

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Can you leave the meter base alone, put an exterior panel adjacent the meter base then use the existing panel as just a giant junction box as I'm sure the wires will be short.

I'm not a sparky but just thinking out load.

 

[getblown5.9]

Can you leave the meter base alone, put an exterior panel adjacent the meter base then use the existing panel as just a giant junction box as I'm sure the wires will be short.

I'm not a sparky but just thinking out load.

From what I've been told I still can't use it as a "closet" if it's junction box. Maybe that's wrong but either way I will not be calling in an inspector to make my life hell.

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[alfredeneuman]

From what I've been told I still can't use it as a "closet" if it's junction box. Maybe that's wrong but either way I will not be calling in an inspector to make my life SAFE.

I fixed it for you ........ and you can use it as a closet if it's just a junction box, without the breakers.

 

[mm08822]

Does the existing panel have an inspection sticker on it?

What service is it?

How many branch cicuits are in it?

 

[Norcal]

^ ^ ^ Not allowed in closets . . . . but old **** still "grandfathered" in.

Friend's house in Arkansas was built in 70's and has it's only electrical panels are in the master bedroom closet up near the top. It's major PITA to clear **** out to gain access to the panel !!

There is a lot of strange electrical **** in Arkansas, that example is rather tame.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

From what I've been told I still can't use it as a "closet" if it's junction box. Maybe that's wrong but either way I will not be calling in an inspector to make my life hell.

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Panels in closets are a big no-no. Yes there is existing houses with panels in closets but those are grandfathered in.

There is no code forbidding j boxes in closets....

 

[mm08822]

May be this has been suggested but i didnt catch it exactly this way.....
Take down the left and front wall of the closet.
Extend the right wall of the closet to the existing bathroom wall. Reuse the same door and door frame.
Cut all nails in studs to reuse as much as you can. A sawzall will help you to safely/cleanly reuse alot especially cutting the doorframe.

Does eliminating this closet really screw everything else up for house?

 

[Firebrick43]

Panel in that bath is actually pretty tame. Dad and mom bought an old farm house in 88 that had the 60 amp fuse panel above the tub and it was a shower tub.

The house was a complete gut to the studs but a new panel was the first project.

The well was contaminated by an underground gas tank (you could smell it) and the old man that owned actually drank it, a big Whiskey Tango Foxtrot