Electrical socket died, how do I track the issue?

[haugy]

GFI or GFCI Electrical socket died, how do I track the issue?

Okay I'm in our bathroom last night and noticed the meter for the heated floor is off.......strange. I check the GFI plug it's wired from, nope dead.

I check the other plug at the other end of the counter that is the end run for that line, dead. But every other circuit on that line is live. WTF?

My house is wired up terribly, there are long runs tied together all over the place. Makes me a nervous wreck. So I break out the volt meter, check it on a live plug, good. Go to the wiring on the first dead plug, nada. Nothing on either plug at the wires.

So my thought is somewhere along the line something happened. We have no mice or rats, and nothing weird in the attic.

How would you try to figure out the problem? I barely slept last night as I was worried about a short or exposed wire that might cause a house fire with my wife and baby in it.

What am I doing wrong?

 

[A1an]

You checked the breaker, correct?

We have a similar issue at our house. GFI outlets are showing no power, but when I go to replace them the hot wire is still hot. Breaker at the box isn't tripped. Curious to see what others have to say about tracing down these issues since it seems you and I may have similar problems.

 

[Zeke]

Sounds like you're not resetting the GFCI properly.

 

[wnstwolf]

Many times GFIs are tied into other outlets in a room in series. The outlet with the GFI is the first one and down line is also protected so when GFI trips so do those down the line. Also why the feed to the GFI can still be hot and "bite ya".

As Zeke mentioned try to reset the GFI device if no go TURN Off The Breaker and replace I would go with a 20amp unit as the 15a units seem to trip way too easy ie hair dryer, curling iron, or whatever wifie plugs in

 

[csp]

Test the line coming into the GFI. If it's hot, then you have a problem with the GFI and everything downstream from it.

GFIs do fail on occassion. If it is the GFI, just replace it.

 

[StevePgh]

I had a GFCI that refused to reset, in my case it was not a ground fault, but the safe-failure mode of the unit itself. When resetting the GFCI, it should feel like a solid single-click, if it clicks in and clicks when you release pressure on the button, the GFCI is bad or there is a ground fault somewhere down the line. The only way to be sure is a voltmeter, removing the downstream wires and attempting a reset, or a GFCI replacement. Note that some GFCIs cannot be reset without line power applied.

I'd turn the breaker off, unscrew the cover plate from what you presume is the first of the broken outlets on the circuit, use a Non-Contact Voltage Detector (around $20 from your local home improvement center) just to make sure there are no live wires before you pull the thing out. Pull out the outlet/gfci to see the wires, make sure they are securely screwed down and not shorting against anything, keep kids and pets away and turn on the breaker. Check the wires in and out with your non-contact detector to see if they are hot.

Continue this approach with each of the dead outlets until you find where one feed is hot and the other is not. If you don't find a problem in any of the boxes, then you have to follow the wiring...

Some homes connect outlets through the ceiling light boxes, so any recent replacement/trauma of a ceiling fan may have jarred a connection loose causing issues at the wall outlet.

Good luck.

 

[rockwithjason]

my money is on a bad gfi. check the incoming hot to the gfi. if the gfi is reset and there is no down stream power then the gfi has died.

 

[94ONLYSS]

my money is on a bad gfi. check the incoming hot to the gfi. if the gfi is reset and there is no down stream power then the gfi has died.

x2
I had have this happened

 

[haugy]

Well, we found out the issue. I'm a *****.

Good god my house is a wiring nightmare, if I find the GC who let this happen, he's in deep ****.


Turns out the other bathroom is on the same line, with the den, ceiling lights, and master bath. Jeezus.

I have a GFI in that bathroom. It was tripped. Reset it, and reset the rest in my master. All good.

So no bad ones. I do know how to reset them (smartasses ), I just didn't realize how many things are on this one string.

I'm going to have to get an electrician in there to fix this. All of that on one 20amp breaker.

 

[Angelfire]

How many devices are on the one circuit. While I don't like to put more than a few, code allows several depending on your jurisdiction. I think I recall NM allowing up to 10 devices on a single circuit. Not my idea of good practice but it is allowable by code.

 

[csp]

You're not supposed to have one GFI wired downstream from another. The building inspector should have caught that one.

 

[volvo]

..
Not only that, against code and will do its job as designed, could kill someone.
>>>You're not supposed to have one GFI wired downstream from another.>>>

 

[haugy]

You're not supposed to have one GFI wired downstream from another. The building inspector should have caught that one.

..
Not only that, against code and will do its job as designed, could kill someone.
>>>You're not supposed to have one GFI wired downstream from another.>>>

Please explain? The GFI's were my install, but I didn't know they were all on the same damn line except the two in my master bath. That one I knew they were together. But didn't know it was bad.

Please explain. And where should the GFI go? High up on the line? Or at the end?

 

[Zeke]

Put the GFCI anywhere in front of the bath plugs or in the bath itself. Make sure it is in front of the 2nd bath and all plugs from the GFCI will be protected to the end of that branch. They should be labeled as being protected for 2 reasons, one being so that a person would know to look for the GFCI in case of the plugs going dead.

Some will tell you that near or in the first bath is best rather than several plugs before. Again, multiple reasons. But the simplest is so you can locate it easily.

 

[Jim_No_Garage]

But the simplest is so you can locate it easily.

At my BIL's house the outdoor outlets stopped working when he dropped his 120V drill in a puddle wworking outside.

Both BIL and my Dad looked around for a tripped GFCI or breaker and found nothing.

The next time I was there I found the GFCI in the basement at the panel - obscured by the framing in the finished basement walls built AFTERWARDS. You had to open the access door and look 10 inches to the left of the panel - there it was.

Now they know . . .

Jim

 

[fatboy621]

This reminded me of a story from work. I guy as me why he would have lost power to the garage outlets. I asked him if he had a GFCI and if he checked it. He said he looked for one but didn't find any and the breaker for the garage was not tripped. I was not able to stop over until the next day so he siad he would just call an electrician. The guy showed up after work walked in the garage took a look then stepped in throught the back door to the house,shut the door and reset the GFCI that was right behind the door. Charded him 180 for the service call! Needless to say we still give my co worker greif.

 

[Zeke]

People who charge like that won't get called back, ever. What a douche.

 

[csp]

Please explain. And where should the GFI go? High up on the line? Or at the end?

Make the GFI the first outlet in the string for every outlet that you want protected (wire them to the "load" side of the GFI).

You only need one for everything downstream. You're not supposed to have any additional GFI outlets getting their power from the load side of another.

 

[dirttracker18]

Please explain? The GFI's were my install, but I didn't know they were all on the same damn line except the two in my master bath. That one I knew they were together. But didn't know it was bad.

Please explain. And where should the GFI go? High up on the line? Or at the end?

First in the line would protect the entire circuit. Everything after that is protected by the GFCI.

Never two on the same circuit.

You should have seen the mess we had to do in my house when a couple outlets stopped working in the master.

Turns out the ciruit runs through an exterior outlet and the builder used the push ins on the recepticles that eventually failed.

 

[StevePgh]

To check if an outlet is protected, you can use one of these GFCI testers. I'd certainly test the ones in the bathroom with one when you are done fixing the mess to make sure you did it properly.

 

[James E]

I hope I'm not taking this too far off topic but it seems that the OP's question has probably been answered.

Why is it a no-no to have two GFCI's on the same circuit? I have this exact thing in my newly built (and inspected) garage. There is a GFCI at the beginning of a line of outlets, then the line turns vertical to feed three outlets high up on the wall. Where it turns vertical, there is another GFCI.

What is the danger to having two on the same circuit?

 

[pattenp]

To make sure this is clear you can have multiple GFCI's on one circuit but they need to be wired in the correct manner. Just as csp stated, do not wire additional GFCI from the protected/load side of the up stream GFCI, wire from the line side.

Make the GFI the first outlet in the string for every outlet that you want protected (wire them to the "load" side of the GFI).

You only need one for everything downstream. You're not supposed to have any additional GFI outlets getting their power from the load side of another.

 

[dirttracker18]

I hope I'm not taking this too far off topic but it seems that the OP's question has probably been answered.

Why is it a no-no to have two GFCI's on the same circuit? I have this exact thing in my newly built (and inspected) garage. There is a GFCI at the beginning of a line of outlets, then the line turns vertical to feed three outlets high up on the wall. Where it turns vertical, there is another GFCI.

What is the danger to having two on the same circuit?

I am not an electrician but my understanding, in part, is that they cause cause one another to trip.

 

[haugy]

To make sure this is clear you can have multiple GFCI's on one circuit but they need to be wired in the correct manner. Just as csp stated, do not wire additional GFCI from the protected/load side of the up stream GFCI, wire from the line side.

I am not an electrician but my understanding, in part, is that they cause cause one another to trip.

Yeah my question was good. Hijack away.

If the above is true, then I'm all good. If I trip the GFI on the bottom end, nothing else fails. If I trip the one on the top end of the string, all below it fail. And none of them pop under normal load. So I must have wired them up right. My god, it's a miracle.

 

[lorne]

The next time I was there I found the GFCI in the basement at the panel -

Jim

That is where the GFCI is located in my house for the three bathrooms and kitchen counter outlets. Does it really save that much money?

 

[csp]

So I must have wired them up right. My god, it's a miracle.

Bad assumption. If your bottom one is getting its power from the load side of the first one, it's wrong. The bottom one when manually tripped, will only trip outlets wired to the load side of it. Everything upstream will still work, as you found.

When one GFI is wired to the load side of another, a ground fault in the second one can cause either or both to trip and if the person attempting to reset doesn't know about both may never figure it out.