Electrical Wire Nut Tool

[sberry]

I agree. I think the pre twist is partially so that it makes it all a super deliberate effort and adds a double check step. I am not sure how much integrity it actually adds.
Something else is the nut itself. Those old vynal Scotch bastards were the worst, didn't seem that the spring had the correct taper. I have ran across more than one of those all loose, they didn't always burn and don't always know what load was on them but have certainly found loose wires and maybe a few burned ones.
The Ideal is very good, I have taken a lot of my own connections apart over the years and don't find them loose, some are so tight really welded together for practical purpose.
I do on occasion run a nut on a ways, if it doesn't feel right I back off and will trim it a little if there is a problem. I will certainly agree, either method,,, and Ideal says pre is not required and have seen some appliance instructions say not to but its really about the installer. Its a minor step I try not to hurry past, a few seconds does not matter.
There is usually twist outside the nut to insure the thing cant just pop out, turns it in to a bundle of sorts.

 

[Xcursion88]

I agree. I think the pre twist is partially so that it makes it all a super deliberate effort and adds a double check step. I am not sure how much integrity it actually adds.
Something else is the nut itself. Those old vynal Scotch bastards were the worst, didn't seem that the spring had the correct taper. I have ran across more than one of those all loose, they didn't always burn and don't always know what load was on them but have certainly found loose wires and maybe a few burned ones.
The Ideal is very good, I have taken a lot of my own connections apart over the years and don't find them loose, some are so tight really welded together for practical purpose.
I do on occasion run a nut on a ways, if it doesn't feel right I back off and will trim it a little if there is a problem. I will certainly agree, either method,,, and Ideal says pre is not required and have seen some appliance instructions say not to but its really about the installer. Its a minor step I try not to hurry past, a few seconds does not matter.
There is usually twist outside the nut to insure the thing cant just pop out, turns it in to a bundle of sorts.

The twist is doing the contact work. The nut is just covering.

Without the twist you are relying on the nut to do all the contact work.

As I mentioned previously there are two ways to do electrical connections. A thorough proper way or a half assed way. The half assed way CAN work. The thorough way ALWAYS works!

I've seen many connections while pulling out of junction box the wire nut just pull right off with hardly any effort.

Wires aren't a weight bearing item nor moving item. That's why one can get away with short stepping connections.

 

[Xcursion88]

"If you can not sufficiently tighten a wire nut with your fingers, there is something wrong !"

Seriously, it sounds like a lot of people just don't know their limitations.

"I think pre twisting can actually be detrimental. It adds extra steps. "

In NYC the "professional " electricians many times do not pre-twist. Can't tell you how many lose wire bundles, shorts, open circuits I have found due to this. As it is often the case, most of the issues are due to poor workmanship, not the materials or procedures.

Yep.. this ^^^^^^^^^^

 

[rlitman]

The twist is doing the contact work. The nut is just covering...

Not quite. The nut is a spring, and will force the wires together if installed correctly.

 

[Xcursion88]

Not quite. The nut is a spring, and will force the wires together if installed correctly.

Yes it is exactly.

Your comprehension skills bot very electric today?

You are asking the nut to bear a load of work.

Twist the wires and the connection is golden. Spin a nut on the end to cover the exposure. Done. Sure connection.

 

[engineer2]

I temped in some new LED lights that use the WAGO connectors. I hope I can get the wires out when I need to.

 

[Xcursion88]

Using correctly sized Ideal wire nuts, the twist also occurs while the nut is being installed, if you are tightening it enough.

It all boils down to who is doing the work, and how good they are at it, and how consistent, and what kind and size of wires vs which wire nut is used.

For occasional job DIY types, pretwisting is really good insurance, and the extra effort/time is insignificant in doing the job, so why not just do it? I can easily agree with that. Whether it is necessary, and NEEDS to be done is another question entirely.

The problem with electrical connections is this...

They don't bear weight. Not moving. Just sit there.

So you can get away with many variants of makimg said connection.

Having said that there is a surefire way to do said connection. Professionally or home DIY no matter.

You can twist car stereo wires up with fingers and electrical tape them and done.

Does it work? Yep. Is it right? Well it works. And therein lies the problem.

A fastener as example there isn't two ways to make the connection. Bolt and nut. It cant be done any other way. An M12 1.25 bolt MUST have it's nut counterpart to work. The only variable being to torque how much.

Wiring...well as long as they make contact it will work. For how long and how strong of signal is the unknown if the job is half assed.

If done right by twisting the wires up then capping with a nut you are providing a lifetime surefire optimum connection.

Maybe some of the people here need to run into bad wiring connections and chasing that **** down to understand the importance of a quality connection.

Just sayin

 

[unslow1]

When I was doing this for a living the guy training me had us twist the wires then also tape the wires and nut. We also had to tape the the connections on outlets and switches for the inspector. It was all for extra insurance. The tape would keep the wire together and the nut on it even if they loosened up.

 

[Xcursion88]

When I was doing this for a living the guy training me had us twist the wires then also tape the wires and nut. We also had to tape the the connections on outlets and switches for the inspector. It was all for extra insurance. The tape would keep the wire together and the nut on it even if they loosened up.

I stopped taping the wires and nut inside homes.

Outside an absolute must.

But to each their own on that.

A sure connection is just that...a sure thing.

Half assed connection can be an adventure.

 

[Mr_fixit]

Here's what I use if I have to do 50 or so... only a couple, always by hand. I like the offset screwdriver one the best.

 

[sberry]

Ideal said they recommend twisting, not required. I done this a long time, don't have a history of loose wires, my hands are strong and can wrist them tight. When the nut is removed the wires need to be untainted to get them apart. It's not simply a cap, its tight and applying extreme clamping pressure.

 

[dogdog]

more than 2 wires, I pre-twist with line man plier... 2 I don't... it's not electrical code to pre-twist or not, most failure is the monkey with the wrench... there is no guarantee that just using the wire nut won't have loose wire... if the monkey have his way....anything is possible.

 

[Marctrees]

I'm a twister because - To do the job reliably w/o twisting.. all the stripped ends need to be relatively flush.. which is often not easily reliably done when you have like more than 3 wires in the bundle.

If a stranded fixture wire is connected to any size bundle, it needs to project a tiny bit past the bundle to insure it gets well connected.

It is tooo easy for one to slide partially out to where it is not grabbed as good as should be.

So now, one needs to test pullout each single conductor to confirm it is holding.. BUT you really can't do that cuz if you twisted the nut on tight, now the whole bundle has some twist.

When I pre twist - I KNOW they are all mechanically and electrically joined.

If I did NOT pre twist, there is no way to KNOW for sure.

Also, If a stranded fixture wire is connected to any size bundle, it needs to project a tiny bit past the bundle to insure it gets well connected.

And then, the fixture wire, I always give a test yank to make sure it grabbed.

Just my thoughts.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

Also, after a bundle of solid wires are twisted.. THEN cut stripped bundle to final length,, AND also give the tip a slight OD reaming action chamfer w the linemans before installing nut.

Marc

 

[hsvtoolfool]

After reading all these posts, I start to wonder if we're talking about the same thing. I assumed the OP was using 14 GA or larger solid copper for a home addition or remodel.

Unless we're talking small-gauge doorbell wire, I would never rely solely on a wire nut to make a good joint. A couple of loose wire twists are equally dangerous. To carry current without heating up, the joined wires need a really tight twist to create maximum surface contact. A joint relying solely on the the thin spring-wire inside a wire nut to carry any current load is dangerous.

Here's an example of a typical, amateur (aka bad) wire joint...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LogsUzATLn8

Ugh, that is really painful to watch. You can tell from the soft hands the presenter isn't a professional electrician. The result is sloppy and loose: too few twists, too little surface contact along the joint length, and NO end cut to "smear" the copper wires together and lock the wire nut's bite.

Now this guy is obviously a pro and his wire joint is much, much better...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mzVhkO0qk0

It's still not the tightest twist possible, but notice the full wire contact along the entire length of the twisted copper followed by a clean end-cut to join them further. That joint will pass inspection anywhere and remain safe for a lifetime. The wire nut just keeps the bare copper from shorting out. The spring inside the wire nut bites into the copper to prevent thermal expansion from loosening the joint over time. The wire nut doesn't joint the wires, it just "seals" the joint.

 

[Git]

And with a WAGO lever lock, you just insert the wire and close the lever....

And for you nah sayers, here is a discussion on an Electrician's Forum discussing how well they like them

https://www.electriciantalk.com/f14/wago-lever-nuts-160785/

 

[Dumber than lumber]

Man how I love learning new things everyday and the op got me started by asking about a wire spinning tool something that I have never heard of or seen before...

Way cool idea:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...0F3A3FE3EA7627BCFE030F3A3FE3EA7627B&FORM=VIRE

That is indeed way cool.
Now I expect Milwaukee will introduce an M12 wirenut spinner tool. Seems like they keep coming out with more and more stuff.
They could call it the Spinner-Winner.
Or the Nut-Buddy.
Oh no. Once I get started the ideas just keep on flowing.....

 

[Marctrees]

As a side note... Any and all wirenuts that may even just possibly be exposed to any moisture...

Certainly even just possible condensation...

ALWAYS pack them in the box "hat on" to shed any water like an umbrella rather than possibly collect it.

Marc

 

[DSLTRK]

I'd be using wagos if all you're running is romex.
Push in style connectors such as wagos are much faster.

 

[Marctrees]

I'd be using wagos if all you're running is romex.
Push in style connectors such as wagos are much faster.

Very possibly, but "against my Religion".



Marc

 

[rlitman]

As a side note... Any and all wirenuts that may even just possibly be exposed to any moisture...

Certainly even just possible condensation...

ALWAYS pack them in the box "hat on" to shed any water like an umbrella rather than possibly collect it.

Marc

Yes. Though if I think there is the slightest chance of moisture collecting, I'll use the gel filled wire nuts.

 

[sberry]

I have used them in wet and humid. They were covered in the umbrella position but we put the straw on can of penetrating spray, stick it in them and give them a shot. Spray inside the box before putting the cover on.