Electricians

[NormBourne]

With due respect guys, a number of you are carrying out mods to their electrical systems, not being aware of the consequences or ramifications of said mods, to both property and personal safety.


The answer guys, is get yourselves an electrician...!!!

Norm. (electrician)

 

[1/2 Cup]

The standards and codes are very different out here to what they appear to be in the states.

1/2 Cup - sparky

 

[Norcal]

Australia does not allow DIY electrical, the US does.

 

[Zeke]

That wasn't his point. However, I'd like to say this forum does a very good job in guiding people to proper installations. There have been instances here with respect to work done by electricians that wasn't too hot (sorry) that was spotted and corrections suggested.

Getting a competent electrician is prudent.

 

[sberry]

I agree with Zeke. It often takes a long way around but it gets there.

 

[1/2 Cup]

As above, I have seen some pretty dodgy work, mainly safety related, done by qualified electricians out here even with all the checks and balances in place.

 

[Falcon67]

Our house was wired professionally. No ground on the main panel. HLV in both baths wired with 12-3 and the copper used as a return to the switch array where it was tied to a neutral. Same with the master bath vanity light. G'day.

 

[Evan(CA)]

I think most people if they really want to are capable of doing 90% of their own residential electrical work with no previous experience. Results will vary but it's not rocket science. It may not end up technically up to code because the code is for the most part nothing more than a bureaucratic pile of horseshit but it should be safe as long as they aren't a complete retard. I live in California and work in a very strict city and county so I'm pretty fed up with the code. I'm obviously not talking about the safety aspects, just things like occupancy sensors, arc fault breakers that trip all the ******* time, lame kiddie outlets etc. The internet can teach you how to do just about anything these days

 

[Kevin C]

Interesting assumptions... Might be right, might be wrong... But that's a pretty big generalization. Most of us can figure electrical out, and we have a couple of resident pro's to keep us in line.

In general we are here to learn and, when possible, help each other out. The key to this group is we try and help... That help can range from helping a DIY person on doing a good job, to figuring out what to ask a pro to install.

IMHO, this is one of the best groups I have seen. The most important part is I don't see a lot of attitude.

BTW .. Evan, I used to work in Goleta.. Back when I lived in Santa Barbara.

 

[Evan(CA)]

BTW .. Evan, I used to work in Goleta.. Back when I lived in Santa Barbara.

I'm actually thinking of moving to Oregon or Washington. It's too expensive here but the weather has spoiled me. I can't stand heat but can deal with the cold and love to snowboard so I was thinking either of those states might fit the bill.

 

[NormBourne]

I think most people if they really want to are capable of doing 90% of their own residential electrical work with no previous experience. Results will vary but it's not rocket science. It may not end up technically up to code because the code is for the most part nothing more than a bureaucratic pile of horseshit but it should be safe as long as they aren't a complete retard. I live in California and work in a very strict city and county so I'm pretty fed up with the code. I'm obviously not talking about the safety aspects, just things like occupancy sensors, arc fault breakers that trip all the ******* time, lame kiddie outlets etc. The internet can teach you how to do just about anything these days

What is it they say..? ignorance is bliss.....,!! There is no doubt that is the case here.

If circuit breakers trip they trip for a reason, there is a fault somewhere which needs to be investigated, they are simply doing what they were designed for.

As regards the "Bureaucratic pile of ........." these codes have evolved over many years and were formulated with the object of ensuring safety to personell and property.

I speak here from personal experience, having been a qualified, licensed electrician for 50 years, 35 of which as director of a mid size electrical contracting business.

Norm.

 

[eddie1278]

I agree as a Sparky myself. I see people on here trying to give information on very large electrical projects which is very scary. I would never take advice from a stranger on the internet on serious projects. This isn't painting or remodeling where there is no life dangers involved. I never understood why people would attempt one of the most dangerous things to save a few bucks but will spend a small fortune on a huge garage filled with all the toys they want.

Sure it's legal to do your own electric work in your home but try changing anything on the line side of the meter like your service drop. The POCO doesn't allow home owners to touch the meter or the pan in most areas for good reason.

And I love the people who say they seen the pros do some real bad electrical work. My question is...if you aren't a pro yourself what makes you qualified on what is right and what is wrong?

Yes there are hacks out there in EVERY trade and MORE hack DIYers then anything. The bulk of most of my work is from DIYers and the same for most electricians who focus on residential. Once in awhile Ill come across a job where the home owner tells me she had another electrician out and the work is bad. My answer to that is...they aren't electricians. REAL electricians take pride in their work and do things right. But everyone is human pro or not and we all make mistakes.

 

[Kevin C]

As regards the "Bureaucratic pile of ........." these codes have evolved over many years and were formulated with the object of ensuring safety to personell and property.

In general, I agree with most of the code.... But TR sockets on GFCI protected circuits that are mounted at 10' in a garage?

Plug in more than 3 florescents lights and all you get are a lot of nuisance trips.

This is a section where the code needs to change.

I speak from experience as a Master DIY electrician.

 

[eddie1278]

Some of the code is bs yes but the majority of it is needed.

The job I had the other day was installing outside receptacles and the only WR receptacles you can buy are TR. Why would you need a TR receptacle outdoors with a flip weatherproof cover? I doubt anywhere in the world will you find a kid flipping up a cover and trying stick metal objects in a receptacle. Those metal covers are somewhat a pain for even an adult to open.

 

[theoldwizard1]

In general, I agree with most of the code.... But TR sockets on GFCI protected circuits that are mounted at 10'?

Plug in more than 3 florescents lights and all you get are a lot of nuisance trips.

IMHO, TR and AFCI (for 120V citrcuits) are just ways for the manufacturers to make money.

TR are simply not required. Any parent and grandparent that has more than a couple of live brain cells will make certain that all receptacles 4' and below have safety caps on them. Truthfully, does any one here know of someone who was injured/killed by sticking something an outlet in the past 50 years ?

The problem with AFCI (and somewhat GFCI) is if one trips, is it the load or the device ? There is almost know way to know for certain. Example : My son's washing machine would trip the GFCI about every 3rd load. He did the "logical" thing. My gut tells me that AFCI breakers and "back stab" receptacles are going to make independant electrician a lot of money in the future !


And let's talk about "dedicated circuits". Bathroom outlet ? Really ? Okay for new construction, but on a remodel ? Why does a microwave REALLY need a dedicated circuit ? Garbage disposer ? Dishwasher ? Not in my 60yo kitchen ! Yes, I added 4 circuits when I remodeled my daughter's kitchen, but the microwave is not on a dedicated circuit (shared with the stove: timer, light and igniters)

 

[eddie1278]

IMHO, TR and AFCI (for 120V citrcuits) are just ways for the manufacturers to make money.

TR are simply not required. Any parent and grandparent that has more than a couple of live brain cells will make certain that all receptacles 4' and below have safety caps on them. Truthfully, does any one here know of someone who was injured/killed by sticking something an outlet in the past 50 years ?

The problem with AFCI (and somewhat GFCI) is if one trips, is it the load or the device ? There is almost know way to know for certain. Example : My son's washing machine would trip the GFCI about every 3rd load. He did the "logical" thing. My gut tells me that AFCI breakers and "back stab" receptacles are going to make independant electrician a lot of money in the future !


And let's talk about "dedicated circuits". Bathroom outlet ? Really ? Okay for new construction, but on a remodel ? Why does a microwave REALLY need a dedicated circuit ? Garbage disposer ? Dishwasher ? Not in my 60yo kitchen ! Yes, I added 4 circuits when I remodeled my daughter's kitchen, but the microwave is not on a dedicated circuit (shared with the stove: timer, light and igniters)

Bathroom dedicated circuit is a no brainer. Hair dryers and curling irons are used in almost every home with a woman in it. A hair dryer alone will trip a 15 amp circuit.

 

[DekeT]

As regards the "Bureaucratic pile of ........." these codes have evolved over many years and were formulated with the object of ensuring safety to personell and property.
Norm.

Sorry Norm, I have to disagree. Codes evolved from simple and safe written by electricians to a gigantic pile of **** written by the electrical suppliers so they can get more cost into the construction.

 

[bczygan]

It's hard to be neutral about this discussion.
Knowledge is power (All puns intended).
Some people on here are well grounded in the basics.
Some are negative when you ask a simple question.
I find all these discussions to be a positive.
This site is a good conduit for information.
It doesn't take a panel of experts to see that.
Many of the discussions are very illuminating, beyond a shadow of a doubt.
My knowledge of electricity has been transformed.
I've seen the light.
I'm so amped.
Just thinking about all this has left me wired.

 

[Evan(CA)]

Right because trying to use a vacuum cleaner on an AFCI circuit is a fault that needs to be investigated. Don't you love those occupancy sensors in your bathroom too? How about the tamper resistant outlets? These are the types of BS codes I'm complaining about. They have nothing to do with safety. You could argue the AFCI's are but I've had nothing but trouble with them since they came out though the newer ones have got somewhat better. The code is just as much about money as it is about safety these days. Sounds to me like you've been working management for a long time and aren't really up to date with what's going on in the field from a worker or customers stand point. I understand where you are coming from in a managerial position though. You just want it done to code end of story but in the real world no one wants their house set up with all this ticky tack BS.

What is it they say..? ignorance is bliss.....,!! There is no doubt that is the case here.

If circuit breakers trip they trip for a reason, there is a fault somewhere which needs to be investigated, they are simply doing what they were designed for.

As regards the "Bureaucratic pile of ........." these codes have evolved over many years and were formulated with the object of ensuring safety to personell and property.

I speak here from personal experience, having been a qualified, licensed electrician for 50 years, 35 of which as director of a mid size electrical contracting business.

Norm.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Bathroom dedicated circuit is a no brainer. Hair dryers and curling irons are used in almost every home with a woman in it. A hair dryer alone will trip a 15 amp circuit.

Maybe on new construction, but on a bathroom remodel ? IMHO, it should be a homeowner option.

When my daughter was a teen, she had very long hair. That meant a lot of hair dryer and curling iron use ! My bathroom is part of a daisy chain that included parts of the laundry room and 2 bedrooms. The only time I would have a trip was when she used the curling iron and the window A/C kicked on ! Yes, 15A breaker.

 

[Evan(CA)]

Sorry Norm, I have to disagree. Codes evolved from simple and safe written by electricians to a gigantic pile of **** written by the electrical suppliers so they can get more cost into the construction.

Exactly!

 

[eddie1278]

There have been DIYers in everything in life but there will always be the need for the pros. They have been making Chilton and Haynes manuals for the auto repair DIYers for decades and it doesn't hurt the shops one bit. Same with all the other trades the information available online or in books doesn't hurt or effect the trades at all. Also Lowes and HD are geared to the DIYer but I see the parking lots full of pros buying supplies.

The bottom line is you can read anything about anything online or in books, but if you don't have the aptitude to apply it in real world situations it means nothing.

Also the pros have all the tools and know how to do things much quicker and not buy unnecessary materials that will save you money.

I remember reading on this forum not to long ago where a guy ran a 3 wire feeder to an detached garage in conduit that was wrong. This is what I am talking about where the pros come in. He wasted all that money and time and now has to pull that out and buy the correct wire. You also can't return cut wire to the box stores. Doing it yourself very rarely ends up saving you money because of the mistakes and tools you have to buy.

 

[Nick Danger]

I added a vent fan to my bathroom. I wired it myself. Should I have called an electrician?

On the other hand, I requested bids for upgrading the 60A main panel. I know that's outside my expertise. Even if a mechanic at work says that it's easy.

 

[r_olson_06]

Sorry Norm, I have to disagree. Codes evolved from simple and safe written by electricians to a gigantic pile of **** written by the electrical suppliers so they can get more cost into the construction.

I agree have you ever looked at the first part of NEC with the code making panel . All are manufactures of Materials/Equipment. I am not saying they are all bad but seem kinda odd that a manufacture can change the law (code) for the best sales interest. I don't know too many other places where the salesperson can require a law for their best interest besides a politician of course.
Norm, I highly doubt you believe in every single code in the NEC and if so I say you don't know the code all that well. Here is an example. You can NOT use a minnie/stand off, 1 hole, or strut ******** PVC, Sealtight or Liquidtight. You must use the cincy clic straps or PVC 2 hole that break the second you touch it when it is cold outside.

 

[theoldwizard1]

On the other hand, I requested bids for upgrading the 60A main panel. I know that's outside my expertise.

"A man's got to know his limitation !"


What movie is that from ?

 

[NormBourne]

Right because trying to use a vacuum cleaner on an AFCI circuit is a fault that needs to be investigated. Don't you love those occupancy sensors in your bathroom too? How about the tamper resistant outlets? These are the types of BS codes I'm complaining about. They have nothing to do with safety. You could argue the AFCI's are but I've had nothing but trouble with them since they came out though the newer ones have got somewhat better. The code is just as much about money as it is about safety these days. Sounds to me like you've been working management for a long time and aren't really up to date with what's going on in the field from a worker or customers stand point. I understand where you are coming from in a managerial position though. You just want it done to code end of story but in the real world no one wants their house set up with all this ticky tack BS.

Excuse me, I was a working director, heavily involved in the planning and execution of projects, so a lot of my work was hands on.

I was deeply concerned that the work carried out by my employees was up to scratch, as I carried the final responsibility.

The wiring rules in Australia are composed by the "Standards Association of Australia" who are a federal government body, there are no vested interests involved in the formulating of these rules.

Here in australia, there are severe penalties involved for not complying with the Regulations.


Norm.

 

[Evan(CA)]

I didn't realize you were in Australia. We are comparing apples and oranges here. I meant no offense.

Excuse me, I was a working director, heavily involved in the planning and execution of projects, so a lot of my work was hands on.

I was deeply concerned that the work carried out by my employees was up to scratch, as I carried the final responsibility.

The wiring rules in Australia are composed by the "Standards Association of Australia" who are a federal government body, there are no vested interests involved in the formulating of these rules.

Here in australia, there are severe penalties involved for not complying with the Regulations.


Norm.

 

[Kevin C]

With due respect guys, a number of you are carrying out mods to their electrical systems, not being aware of the consequences or ramifications of said mods, to both property and personal safety.


The answer guys, is get yourselves an electrician...!!!

Norm. (electrician)

My question is this... Why did you join this forum, so far it seems only to tell people to get an electrician? I have not seen any help offered and the posts come off as trolling.

You might want to look into Mike Holt's forum, pros only; you can gripe about us over there.

 

[NormBourne]

I didn't realize you were in Australia. We are comparing apples and oranges here. I meant no offense.

None taken mate, good luck..!

Norm.

 

[zcar751]

Well I for one, appreciate the NEC and understand how and why it was developed and evolved. I have gone through so many facilities and buildings that just scare the hell out of me when I see work done by people who thought they were smart enough to do electrical work. Every home I have owned has required rework due to the hazards left behind from the POs who were "smart enough" to hook up a wire. I can count the times I had to get work redone after hearing "It was done by an electrician".
Evan(CA) maybe if you grasped the enormity of the dangers from miss-wired homes and other buildings you would feel different. The Code is put together by a panel of Certified Master Electricians and Engineers who review the hazards and develop ways to avoid them. The Arc Flash Circuit Interrupters (AFCI) outlets while they may seem burdensome are there to keep the house from burning down and Junior from taking a trip to the emergency room.
I don't call for everyone to use an electrician for swapping out an outlet I do think major work needs to have a Certified Electrician to at least review the work.
Finally I am not an electrician or an engineer and can count the number of arguments I have had with them through the years over the need to follow the codes and regulations.

 

[Norcal]

Well I for one, appreciate the NEC and understand how and why it was developed and evolved. I have gone through so many facilities and buildings that just scare the hell out of me when I see work done by people who thought they were smart enough to do electrical work. Every home I have owned has required rework due to the hazards left behind from the POs who were "smart enough" to hook up a wire. I can count the times I had to get work redone after hearing "It was done by an electrician".
Evan(CA) maybe if you grasped the enormity of the dangers from miss-wired homes and other buildings you would feel different. The Code is put together by a panel of Certified Master Electricians and Engineers who review the hazards and develop ways to avoid them. The Arc Flash Circuit Interrupters (AFCI) outlets while they may seem burdensome are there to keep the house from burning down and Junior from taking a trip to the emergency room.
I don't call for everyone to use an electrician for swapping out an outlet I do think major work needs to have a Certified Electrician to at least review the work.
Finally I am not an electrician or an engineer and can count the number of arguments I have had with them through the years over the need to follow the codes and regulations.

Open up a copy of any recent edition of the NEC and look up the make up of the code committees, they all have manufacturers reps on them, the AFCI rules really benefit them as they never did what they claimed they would do, BTW, if they had required GFCI's on all circuits, I would have no issues w/ it, they work well, & are fairly cheap. AFCI's are snake oil IMO.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Right because trying to use a vacuum cleaner on an AFCI circuit is a fault that needs to be investigated. Don't you love those occupancy sensors in your bathroom too? How about the tamper resistant outlets? These are the types of BS codes I'm complaining about. They have nothing to do with safety. You could argue the AFCI's are but I've had nothing but trouble with them since they came out though the newer ones have got somewhat better. The code is just as much about money as it is about safety these days. Sounds to me like you've been working management for a long time and aren't really up to date with what's going on in the field from a worker or customers stand point. I understand where you are coming from in a managerial position though. You just want it done to code end of story but in the real world no one wants their house set up with all this ticky tack BS.

 

[abnorm]

"A man's got to know his limitation !"


What movie is that from ?

Clint Eastwood in Magnum Force

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Well I for one, appreciate the NEC and understand how and why it was developed and evolved. I have gone through so many facilities and buildings that just scare the hell out of me when I see work done by people who thought they were smart enough to do electrical work. Every home I have owned has required rework due to the hazards left behind from the POs who were "smart enough" to hook up a wire. I can count the times I had to get work redone after hearing "It was done by an electrician".
Evan(CA) maybe if you grasped the enormity of the dangers from miss-wired homes and other buildings you would feel different. The Code is put together by a panel of Certified Master Electricians and Engineers who review the hazards and develop ways to avoid them. The Arc Flash Circuit Interrupters (AFCI) outlets while they may seem burdensome are there to keep the house from burning down and Junior from taking a trip to the emergency room.
I don't call for everyone to use an electrician for swapping out an outlet I do think major work needs to have a Certified Electrician to at least review the work.
Finally I am not an electrician or an engineer and can count the number of arguments I have had with them through the years over the need to follow the codes and regulations.

As somebody who carried numerous Master Electrician and Electrical contractor licenses over the years Im here to tell you some of the contractors Ive worked with in the past were good at reading books and taking tests,but would have a tough time getting past the changing a bulb stage in the field.
And as far as engineers go Ive made a small fortune redoing work drawn up by licensed engineers with degrees.
Having known many of the members of our local plumbing and electrical boards over the years I can come right out and say without a doubt many of the local adopted codes are voted for/accepted based on how much more work and money it makes for contractors and labor.
If the chief plumbing inspector and the local plumbing union had it their way we would still be plumbing houses in cast iron from the ground work up.
Why? Because its more work/money.

 

[Zeke]

Well I for one, appreciate the NEC and understand how and why it was developed and evolved. I have gone through so many facilities and buildings that just scare the hell out of me when I see work done by people who thought they were smart enough to do electrical work. Every home I have owned has required rework due to the hazards left behind from the POs who were "smart enough" to hook up a wire. I can count the times I had to get work redone after hearing "It was done by an electrician".
Evan(CA) maybe if you grasped the enormity of the dangers from miss-wired homes and other buildings you would feel different. The Code is put together by a panel of Certified Master Electricians and Engineers who review the hazards and develop ways to avoid them. The Arc Flash Circuit Interrupters (AFCI) outlets while they may seem burdensome are there to keep the house from burning down and Junior from taking a trip to the emergency room.
I don't call for everyone to use an electrician for swapping out an outlet I do think major work needs to have a Certified Electrician to at least review the work.
Finally I am not an electrician or an engineer and can count the number of arguments I have had with them through the years over the need to follow the codes and regulations.

Just what is the 'enormity?' I've never know anyone who has been electrocuted either to the state of maimed or death. In fact, far more people die from falling off ladders than a LOT of things. Not saying in the least that we shouldn't respect all codes but that some of the argument here is flawed.

And we should be able to rescind some provisions of the code when reasonable. Or unreasonable, as it were.

 

[ddawg16]

With due respect guys, a number of you are carrying out mods to their electrical systems, not being aware of the consequences or ramifications of said mods, to both property and personal safety.


The answer guys, is get yourselves an electrician...!!!

Norm. (electrician)

I've never used one.....never will......at least on my house.

Did I ever makes mistakes? One or two....but nothing that would create a safety hazard.

Now, with that said....I'm not overly impressed with the current batch of 'trained' electricians I'm seeing. Right now I'm at a job site in Texas...we are using a local contractor for the electrical install....I have to wonder just how good they are when even the lead guys don't know that a disconnect box rated for 60A does not mean that you can use it up to 60A without regard for the motor HP....they didn't know there was a HP limit...(hint, it's printed on the label on the inside cover)

And...they didn't take into account de-rating or the 125% rule for motors when pulling the wire for the 480 3ph. Yep....they ended up having to run more conduit and re-pull some wires.

And those are electricians......professional....who do commercial all the time....

 

[James_B]

I've seen both sides. I had a ticket in Australia, and I've done unlicensed work here in Canada (one of the first things I bought was a copy of the "Canadian Electrical Code, Part I"), and my step son is currently an Electrical Apprentice. Licensed electricians that I've talked to here are shocked to discover that I had a 3 phase ticket in Australia, as over here, a 3 phase ticket is not common unless the electrician does commercial work.

Licensing won't help where there are lazy and incompetent people that somehow managed to get licenses. The crappy and dangerous jobs I've encountered in Australia done by "licensed electricians", is only marginally better than some of the work I've encountered here that was done by home handy men.

In Australia, I had an in-wall fire I traced back to bad electrical work. The electrician that wired up my house 7 years before I bought it, was too lazy to strip wires, and just did up the screws in the outlets really tight so they cut through the insulation. One winter, the load of an electrical heater was too much for one of those connections. I put the fire out before it did any real damage, and the cut section of in-wall cable with the wall socket attached, and a melted appliance plug still in the outlet, became an example piece for the electrical instructors at the technical training school I taught at. After that experience, I went through every electrical connection in the house and found a few more examples of the "unstripped wire termination procedure" the electrician used.

In my parent's house, the lights in a reworked section of the house would stop working if the earth connection was opened (the earth connection sparked when it was opened). I traced back the wiring and discovered that at one joint, the licensed electrician had managed to swap the very dark green earth and black neutral line.

Much of the bad home handyman work I've encountered here has been cases of the wrong wire being used (wrong gauge and/or wrong insulation colours), terminations made in free air and just taped up, and strain relief/cable protection fittings not being fitted. While I hate the Wire nut/Marette connections they use here, they are preferable to the wires being simply twisted together, wrapped with insulation tape, and buried under the insulation in the attic.

The house I currently own over here was built before there was electricity available. It was retrofitted with power (thankfully I've encountered no knob and tube), but most of the house is wired with just twin slot sockets (no ground connection), and none of the upstairs bedrooms (6 of them) have wall light switches (just pull cords on pendant lights), and 2 don't even have an outlet in the room.

 

[tfi racing]

The house I currently own over here was built before there was electricity available. It was retrofitted with power (thankfully I've encountered no knob and tube), but most of the house is wired with just twin slot sockets (no ground connection), and none of the upstairs bedrooms (6 of them) have wall light switches (just pull cords on pendant lights), and 2 don't even have an outlet in the room.

According to the pontification and fear mongering of some of the previous posters-your house must be condemned and you must move out immediately,as it is on the verge of turning into an electrical fireball,scorching
its occupants to a certain fiery death if not electrocuting first...

Let me guess,no AFCI,GFCI,grounding protection,it must be horrifying living in that house with the ghosts of all the previous occupants who have been maimed and killed by the demon electricity!

 

[James_B]

According to the pontification and fear mongering of some of the previous posters-your house must be condemned and you must move out immediately,as it is on the verge of turning into an electrical fireball,scorching
its occupants to a certain fiery death if not electrocuting first...

Let me guess,no AFCI,GFCI,grounding protection,it must be horrifying living in that house with the ghosts of all the previous occupants who have been maimed and killed by the demon electricity!

The house is in rural Nova Scotia, and in the 100+ years since it was constructed, we are the third family line to live here. The original builders, and later their descendents, lived in it until the early 1980s, when it was sold to the people we bought it from.

There's actually a single GFCI in the house. It's on a relatively new circuit (within the past 30 years) run to the bathroom ... but as I discovered, the switched side of the GFCI also feeds all the outlets in the garage. You win some, you lose some.

After I have the circuit breaker panel replaced when we go from a 100A to a 200A (or more) service, I will be progressively going through the house and replacing every circuit. The insulation on some of the of the existing wiring is quite brittle, and just falls off if the wires are disturbed. There are quite a few circuits that I found which were still live but parts had been just cut off and insulated (or in some cases, cut off and left bare). The combination of the electrical wiring, the chimney system, and non-certified wood stoves means that like a lot of houses in the area, it is quite uninsurable.

When we moved in, there were regular phantom trips of the 100A breaker that acted as the main switch in the electrical panel. On the ground below the panel was another failed 100A breaker that had obviously been replaced by the current faulty breaker. While investigating the failing breaker, I noticed a wisp of smoke coming out of it, and water in the switchboard. Rainwater was coming into the switchboard in the basement via the electrical conduit run from the external meter on the front of the house, and dripping onto the circuit breaker. It appeared that the breaker had been replaced, the inside of the switchboard sprayed with WD-40, and that was as far as the fix went. I fixed the conduit problem, and replaced the breaker (the way the job should have been done in the first place), and we've had no problems since then.

 

[-Brent-]

I'm a DIY guy with a construction background. I farmed out my electrical upgrade and shelled out thousands of dollars for shoddy, dangerous work. It failed the inspection for numerous violations.

So, I took it on myself to redo it correctly. However, I only knew the basics. I bought a code book and a couple other books (as well as using the Internet) to help me along. As well, the inspector was great at writing out the issues rather than pro-speak.

It took me a while, at first, but once I understood how things worked and what I was to do, it was actually satisfying (when finished).

Since then I've had a few professionals come by and all of them have complemented the work (without me saying I did it).

That being said, I won't be nervous now to take on putting a sub panel in my garage. However, I have a lot of homework to do before I get underway as I don't know things like how big I can go or what size/type wiring to run from the drop to the sub panel, etc. For me, I'm willing to work until it's correct so I don't mind having the inspector come out and giving me pointers. But, with this job I'm looking forward to success the first time around.

A big problem I see is some folks think they know but really just know enough to be dangerous and they don't even consider that they're not doing things correctly.