grounded-b
Well-known member
No. All conductors need to be enclosed in a raceway ( conduit) or be part of an approved cable assembly ( NM-B or MC ) for their entire length from panel to box or fitting.
EMT?
- Thread starter Sumboodie
- Start date
No. All conductors need to be enclosed in a raceway ( conduit) or be part of an approved cable assembly ( NM-B or MC ) for their entire length from panel to box or fitting.
So how is it done? Seems crazy to patch in 3 feet of romex for no reason aside from the 1/16" added wrap it has over THHN
Your going to need a roll of white as the NEC does not permit taping individual conductors smaller then 4 AWG white or green.
kaffine
Well-known member
I also need to remember that this is electrical conduit not communications conduit. Less likely to pull in another cable in electrical conduit. I'm currently redoing my entire house with conduit. I'll see how far I make it using 3/4". Trying to use EMT for everything except the under slab portion.
Stranded wire is easier to pull. I only use back wire devices with the screw clamps so terminating it is easy. It is a bit harder to terminate stranded if using side wire wrapping it around the screw. I wish they would make stranded 12 gauge NM cable as I hate using solid wire.
grounded-b
Well-known member
The easiest way is to fish in a section of flexible metallic conduit ( greenfield ) from your LB to the panel. Pull your conductors through this raceway.
It's not crazy to follow the NEC. The NEC doesn't allow individual conductors to be run indoors without a raceway or as part of a listed cable assembly.
Steve
It's crazy to follow codes blindly. I understand MOST, but this one has me wondering.
What reason would there be that Romex is fine inside a wall but individual wires aren't.
I could probably cut the OSB above and below the panel if need be.
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Do they still make these that have knock outs on all sides with a lid on the front? We have them at work on installs, but I have no idea what they are called, if there are still a thing even.
Wiring Trough, Mtllc, 6In.Hx 6In.Wx 24In.D - Electrical Boxes - Amazon.com
Wiring Trough, Mtllc, 6In.Hx 6In.Wx 24In.D - Electrical Boxes - Amazon.com
www.amazon.com
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
You can understand the code or not, it doesn't matter. It isn't a guideline, it's a rule. Break it if you want, but there may be consequences. Anything from a failed inspection, to a denied insurance claim
It's even crazier to decide that your smarter then the ones writing the code, most of what is required is there for good reason, with the exception of AFCI's.
Everyone keeps bringing up denied insurance claims, not ever heard that being done, still not a excuse to do crappy work though, do it right or not at all.
racecougar
Well-known member
The sheathing on NM-B provides physical protection that THHN lacks.
I don't think the not even 1/16" outer insulation of Romex would do a whole lot that the insulation of THHN wouldn't? Only thing that would maybe happen in a wall cavity is a nail or screw, or I guess if you have a horrible mouse infestation, mickey and his buddies gnawing on it.
racecougar
Well-known member
The point is that it is a second layer of protection, intended for physical protection rather than electrical isolation. You can think what you like, but there is a reason why the code states what it does.
grounded-b
Well-known member
Just use a 4" square x 2 1/8" deep metal Jbox. It has knockouts on all 5 sides. Than slap a blank metal cover on it. Easy
I will have probably 8-10 conduits feeding out of it though. I doubt that would have enough room?
grounded-b
Well-known member
Use several 4 11/16" x 2 1/8" deep boxes nippled together then.
I haven't really seen a "wireway" like you descibed, with factory knockouts on all sides
I haven't really seen a "wireway" like you descibed, with factory knockouts on all sides
grounded-b
Well-known member
You could use something like this. But, you would have to purchase (2) end-caps separately. From your local Electrical supply house
https://www.wildcatelectric.com/pro...es/Wireway-Trough-Gutter/NEMA-Type-1/dept-60T
This one is 5 feet long ( but can be cut to length ) with concentric KO's top and bottom, but not on the back, I do not believe
https://www.wildcatelectric.com/pro...es/Wireway-Trough-Gutter/NEMA-Type-1/dept-60T
This one is 5 feet long ( but can be cut to length ) with concentric KO's top and bottom, but not on the back, I do not believe
They make nice grey ones of various sizes. I'll have to check with the electrical supply on what they have. I can put punch my own holes in if need be.
I think for my couple time use a hole saw would work just fine?
I think for my couple time use a hole saw would work just fine?
RichieP_MechE
Well-known member
When in doubt, McMaster-Carr https://www.mcmaster.com/indoor-enclosures/indoor-enclosures-7/
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
McMastercarr...when you need it enough to not care about the cost
Yup, other than the slow and pricey shipping, but if it's the only place, it is what it is.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
They make them, a 6X6X24 is a little excessive, You'd be fine with a 4X4X12 or 4X4X24. I thought there was a 4X4X18, but can't find them on the website for the supply house I use.
It doesn't matter what you think, it's not right.
7/8" hole saw for 1/2" knockouts, 1-1/8" for 3/4" KO's, and if you venture into 1" conduit, it needs a 1-3/8" hole.
Any idea what the box fill limit is for those or where I could find it without spending $500 or whatever on the NEC book?
Wasn't arguing it wasn't a thing with no THHN in a stud bay, just I'd like to know the why and not get "because" as an answer.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
The code book doesn't give a why. It just says what you can do
sparky 1971
Well-known member
You'll be fine with box fill, especially if you use the 24" wide trough.
I actually looked for a code article stating THHN/THWN has to be in some type of conduit, but didn't come up with anything. It's there though.
Article 300 has some verbiage that says 'single conductors listed in table <whatever> shall only be installed in a recognized wiring method of chapter 3'. loose single conductors isn't a recognized method (except for some outside aerial uses), so it's prohibited.
racecougar
Well-known member
Post #52:
EMT?
The panel is flush mounted. Can I just fire in an "LB" 6" above the panel, let's say a foot above, and pull the wire through the wall into the panel? No. All conductors need to be enclosed in a raceway ( conduit) or be part of an approved cable assembly ( NM-B or MC ) for their entire length...
www.garagejournal.com
Post #65 explained it.Post #52:EMT?
The panel is flush mounted. Can I just fire in an "LB" 6" above the panel, let's say a foot above, and pull the wire through the wall into the panel? No. All conductors need to be enclosed in a raceway ( conduit) or be part of an approved cable assembly ( NM-B or MC ) for their entire length...
racecougar
Well-known member
Post #65 is the "because". Post #52 is the reasoning.