I bought a locker full of paint the other day at an auction and none of the cans have labels on them but they are some really cool metalflake colors but I have no idea if they are enamel or lacquer. Any way to tell other then just mixing some up with enamel reducer and lacquer thinner and then spraying them? Will they react with the wrong thinner before its poured into the gun so I can tell before spraying?
Enamel or Lacquer
- Thread starter 69supercj
- Start date
astroracer
Well-known member
Yup. Get some cheap laquer thinner and test away. If the test subject doesn't curdle it's laquer or some derivitive. If it curdles, it's enamel.
Mark
Mark
Capt Chrysler
Well-known member
Or blend in the unknown slowly (so it wont curdle) to lacquer thinner and spray away.
We made a really kool looking purple prime 20 years ago with red enamel toner, gray lacquer primer and lacquer thinner. Pour in slowly and stir gently.
Capt. Chrysler
PS, it still on the car today. Best $65.00 paint job I have ever had!
We made a really kool looking purple prime 20 years ago with red enamel toner, gray lacquer primer and lacquer thinner. Pour in slowly and stir gently.
Capt. Chrysler
PS, it still on the car today. Best $65.00 paint job I have ever had!
Pawl
Active member
Lacquer thinner won't curdle enamel
Pawl
Active member
Lacquer thinner is hotter than reducer. It is what most all painter use to clean out the paint gun after spraying enamel. Enamel cut with lacquer thinner will flash faster and not shine as good as it would if reducer was used.
Pawl
Active member
Did the paint come from a body shop?
If it did it is probably a base coat and will need clear to shine. And if so is probably a urethane paint.
If it did it is probably a base coat and will need clear to shine. And if so is probably a urethane paint.
It came from an old auto repair shop. It does have some numbers on the cans if I remember but no brand. I'll look at it in the morning and see if I can figure it out. So your saying that you can shoot enamel thinned with lacquer thinner but it wont shine very well? Any idea as to what the long term problems might be, ie , peeling, flaking, cracking?
Pawl
Active member
"So your saying that you can shoot enamel thinned with lacquer thinner but it wont shine very well"
Yes
"Any idea as to what the long term problems might be, ie , peeling, flaking, cracking?"
Any of the above are possible
It could be one of several different kinds of paint Laquer,Enamel,acrylic urethane, we have even used a Dupont product that took a reactive reducer.
Post some info off the cans maybe it will give me a clue.
If you are painting something that really matters I would suggest you buy some known paint and use the proper system. There is enough that can go wrong with a paint job without adding to the problems.
Yes
"Any idea as to what the long term problems might be, ie , peeling, flaking, cracking?"
Any of the above are possible
It could be one of several different kinds of paint Laquer,Enamel,acrylic urethane, we have even used a Dupont product that took a reactive reducer.
Post some info off the cans maybe it will give me a clue.
If you are painting something that really matters I would suggest you buy some known paint and use the proper system. There is enough that can go wrong with a paint job without adding to the problems.
countryroad82
Well-known member
Here's my scientific method, if it smells really good, like a sweet smell (I swear if I knew it didn't burn brain cells I would use it for air freshener!!) then it's lacquer. If it has kind of a paintish smell, it's enamel. If it's sorta a lacquer smell but not really, almost has a more chemically scent, base coat. Paint and body guys will know exactly what I'm talking about, it's that or I've huffed too many paint fumes with a bad respirator through the years lol!!!
Okay I got a few cans out and here's the numbers on the lids. These first three are quart containers, the first one being a C2954Z. Next is BA4363-DZ746X and the last one is F5364-D556X. The next two are pints, the first one being F5470-D86X and the last one is BA11292-D327Z.
e30bradley
Well-known member
Like country road said, enamel and lacquer smell totally different. Take it to a body shop and ask on of the older guys to help you.. Maybe someone will sniff it and tell you.
K13
Well-known member
Do you have a wife or girlfriend? Does she use nail polish? If so nail polish is essentially lacquer paint, smell the nail polish if it smells like your paint you have lacquer.
Okay so I did a little experimenting today with the paint. Mixed some using lacquer thinner and sprayed it and it sprayed okay but its not very glossy. Mixed some with enamel reducer and it sprayed okay and while its not got a high gloss, it is glossier then the stuff mixed with thinner. Not sure what this tells me though. They both mixed up well, no curdling at all. I'll let them dry for a few days and see if there is anything noticebly different.
countryroad82
Well-known member
Just from the sound of it, you either have something like an interior paint or quite possibly basecoat. Never tried enamel thinner in my basecoat but I guess it could dry out a little more glossy due to enamel thinner not being as 'hot' as lacquer thinner. Those numbers that are on the cans, they sound like the paint manufactures numbers. Any chance of knowing the brand of paint? That might help a little.
But it dries FAST. I used to do this sometimes for a quick job. Haven't used enamel in years as urethanes are so much better to paint with and more durable to boot.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
Take a small brush, and a clean piece of metal or smooth wood. Brush each one out and time the drying time. Enamel will take a LOT longer to dry than lacquer. Enamel, you should be able to put your fingerprint into it a few hours later.
Plus like stated, lacquer will smell just like fingernail polish.
If you have a known enamel paint........lacquer over straight enamel will curdle the enamel just like using paint stripper on it. Enamel over a dry lacquer will not do that.
Plus like stated, lacquer will smell just like fingernail polish.
If you have a known enamel paint........lacquer over straight enamel will curdle the enamel just like using paint stripper on it. Enamel over a dry lacquer will not do that.
So Kevin your saying to take some reducer and some thinner on a rag and wipe the painted surface with it to see if you get a reaction? gymbo the cans have had the labels removed. When I took my fingernail to the lacquer thinned surface it seemed to scratch easier then when I scratched the reduced surface. Both surfaces seemed to dry really fast yesterday when I shot it.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
It also could be cans of Basecoat.
If you have thinner, lacquer thinner can wipe off both lacquer and enamel. But if you have some enamel thinner, try wiping the paint off. Enamel thinner shouldn't wipe it off. Back in the day, we used to use enamel thinner as a wax and grease remover/precleaner, with no affect on either enamel or lacquer. Fresh enamel can be cut with enamel thinner though, although if it has dried for 24 hours should have no effect.
Zrexxer
Well-known member
20 year old paint = household hazardous waste. Quit trying to salvage every penny you spent and write it off.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
Exactly what Zrexxer said......if it's been opened, if it has been used out of, chances are after that old or any where's near to it, wait for a Hazardous Waste turn in, in your county, and get rid of it. If it had never been opened, it still has a shelf life, but it would be better off than trying to use old cans of paint that old. Trying to paint something and using it, may get you in to more work than what it is worth.
And if it's been 24 hours drying time, is still wet, or you can fingerprint it by pressing your thumbprint into it......the shelf life has long been expired.
Now.....if you DO NOT have a Hazmat site around, depending on how much paint you have, you can buy a few backs of floor dry, or cheap cat litter and pour it into those, and stir it around, or rotate the bags a few times, then leave the bag open. Once the paint it dry, it is no longer classified as hazardous waste, or at least around here in Ohio it wasn't a couple of years ago.
To actually find out, you can call your local Fire Department, or if you have a number of a Hazmat area in your state, give them a call. You can PM NuttsGT and maybe ask him if he doesn't chime in as he is up on that.
But in a nutshell, you're probably trying to salvage something that isn't worth the headache of messing with. But then again, that is entirely up to you. If the paint does happen to dry on it's own, you could always have a multi colored garage floor
Give it that artist type of "inner inspiration" and start slinging away 
Im not dumping or throwing it away. Its still good paint, you can tell by looking at it when you open it up. My guess was it was old, but it may not be. It dried on its own, in fact it was dry to the touch in probably 20 minutes with both mixes. I'll use it on a tool or vise restoration project, hell I might paint my old '66 F100 with it!
countryroad82
Well-known member
I have some paint in my cabinet that is pushing 30 years old and it is still fine. Yes it has all been opened as it is leftovers from a bodyshop buddy of mine as he would go through his cabinet once a year and throw everything away. I started taking it and using it for junk projects or to color stuff in so I can use less of my actual paint. I've even painted a few cars with 'what I've got laying around', you know what I mean, **** car with **** paint make it look better but you'll never be able to match it!! As for dumping it, nah I wouldn't. Maybe treat it as a base coat and clear over top of it, you will have to do some tests to make sure it doesn't go insane when you clear it.
I just repainted the front bumper on my '66 F100 with some white Centari that I bought back in '92 and it looks as good as new and yes it had been opened. Shook and stirred it for a few minutes and it sprayed perfect.
I've also got paint that dates back to the early 70's. Most of it is acrylic lacquer in factory pack colors of the mid 60's to early 70's with some acrylic enamel and some synthol enamel. I have not found any of the paint that did not mix and spray as it should. Just can't bring myself to throw away paint that has never been opened.
I've even got some spindrift that I had left over from a job back in the 70's. I've had a lot of offers to buy that, but can't bring myself to sell it.
This work bench and tire changer was base coated with the 40 year old lacquer and clear coated with Imron that was also the same age.
Drew
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
I remember when they came out with Imron. They had a display at the local jobbers that was a large piece of sheetmetal on the counter that was painted in Imron, then they had a hammer laying there so you could test the hardness of the paint. We painted a few vehicles with it, and wore a respirator, but not a fresh air respirator. After about three cars, that fairly ended my dads painting career.
But my dad smoked like a freight train for years, and the fumes from the Imron tore him up. He was in the hospital for a couple of days from it. Nasty stuff, but tough as hell and put on a hell of a shine.
IIRC, the big seller for Imron was for airplanes due to the toughness of the paint. I would imagine though that over the years they have reformulated it some so it is not as hazardous as it originally was.
I remember when they came out with Imron. They had a display at the local jobbers that was a large piece of sheetmetal on the counter that was painted in Imron, then they had a hammer laying there so you could test the hardness of the paint. We painted a few vehicles with it, and wore a respirator, but not a fresh air respirator. After about three cars, that fairly ended my dads painting career.
But my dad smoked like a freight train for years, and the fumes from the Imron tore him up. He was in the hospital for a couple of days from it. Nasty stuff, but tough as hell and put on a hell of a shine.
IIRC, the big seller for Imron was for airplanes due to the toughness of the paint. I would imagine though that over the years they have reformulated it some so it is not as hazardous as it originally was.
I owned a custom van shop when the Dupont paint rep. came in trying to sell me on using Imron on my custom paint jobs. He had a test panel that he tortured showing how tough it was. I've shot several Imron jobs and it has incredible shine. My problem with it was that it had a plastic look to it.
Spudland_Dave
Well-known member
Theres more to paint systems then just reducer...without knowing whats in the cans, its impossible to know what other components are needed and mixing ratios, etc..
Reducers, Hardeners, Activators, etc.. there's just as much "additives" as there are paint types. When I shoot Urethane its mixed 4:1:1 with reducer and activator, some Enamels require Activator/hardener as well or they will never dry/harden.
You want to give yourself headaches and frustration...mix & match/backyard engineer paint systems...
Reducers, Hardeners, Activators, etc.. there's just as much "additives" as there are paint types. When I shoot Urethane its mixed 4:1:1 with reducer and activator, some Enamels require Activator/hardener as well or they will never dry/harden.
You want to give yourself headaches and frustration...mix & match/backyard engineer paint systems...
e30bradley
Well-known member
I agree with the above.. You need to know exactly what paint you are working with.
rustyjames
Well-known member
I've also got paint that dates back to the early 70's. Most of it is acrylic lacquer in factory pack colors of the mid 60's to early 70's with some acrylic enamel and some synthol enamel. I have not found any of the paint that did not mix and spray as it should. Just can't bring myself to throw away paint that has never been opened.
I've even got some spindrift that I had left over from a job back in the 70's. I've had a lot of offers to buy that, but can't bring myself to sell it.
This work bench and tire changer was base coated with the 40 year old lacquer and clear coated with Imron that was also the same age.
Drew
Same here, I still have a ton of paints back as far as the 70's that for whatever reason I can't dispose of, might come in handy some day!