End Game Socket Sets

[pizza]

what do you think are the highest quality socket sets (in common drive systems like 1/4", 3/8", 1/2") in metric and US customary/SAE/imperial?

i have metric sets by koken (zeal), and it's difficult to imagine anything better. if anyone's looking for metric sockets, i highly recommend them. i think they're awesome. check out RS3400MZ/12 (3/8" 12 pc) for example.
http://www.koken-tool.co.jp/en/panflets/KOKEN201810EN.pdf

i want to pick up a comparable 3/8" drive SAE set, probably 12 pieces or more.
i'm looking at Williams WSB-13HRC (13-Piece 3/8-Inch Drive Shallow 6 Point Set). if i'm not mistaken, i think these are basically snap-on sans the knurling. should i be looking at anything else?

what are your favorite sets?

 

[richfinn]

There is an "End" to it?

Mine constantly evolves and grows as new vehicles hit the road and newer types of fasteners become prevalent

Good call on the Ko-ken though, great tools and good value

Honestly though my tools are a mish-mash of brands
I just go for the best deal or whatever will work best at any given time and place depending on availability

Got to be good quality though, I dont do the warranty thing, if I wear it out I've had my moneys worth and buy the same tool. If it breaks and its not operator abuse O buy something better the next time

Had some good advice from GJ over the years (if you ignore the political element) and it definately helps build a better tool kit with one eye on the cost

 

[seber]

The sockets I have that will not be looking to ever replaces are Snap-on and Koken. I have a set of SK that have never failed but not quite as good a fit. I haven't tried Nepros. Stalwille, Gedore, Hazet sit in the back of the drawer. I just don't like anything about them. I tossed all the Craftsman sockets long ago. Got tired of cracking them. Warranty is fine but I prefer to have tools that don't need to be replaced constantly.

 

[BiggityBen]

i have Snap On flank drive that are fine, SK that are fine, Dewalt that are fine, newer Mac precision torque that are fine, Grey Pneumatic that are fine, Craftsman that are OK but not quite fine, and Stanley that are fine.

but to me, nothing beats the older style USA made Mac sockets. i've found them to be indestructible and always a solid, tight fit on everything. i keep a 1/4" master set SAE and Metric shallow and deep with extensions and swivel on my work truck. the ratchet is garbage and i broke it in the first month, but those sockets are the best i've ever used. once i can justify the ~$700 i'm going to get the 3/8" master set to go with it and i'll be walkin on sunshine forever happy for the rest of my life, presumably.

never tried any other brand though.

 

[Al Borland]

As long as they keep making tools, there will always be a new "Precious" for the Garage Journal...

 

[pizza]

The sockets I have that will not be looking to ever replaces are Snap-on and Koken. ... I haven't tried Nepros.

are your snap-on sockets the williams usa-made ones?

i haven't tried nepros sockets either, but i'd like to.

my prediction is that compared to koken zeal, the chroming on them is nicer, but the fastener fit isn't as good. the tight fit is koken's thing in the z-series (tighter tolerances than ISO/DIN standard). and while i actually dig that satin finish of the zeal sockets, let's be real.. it's not as **** as the thick, flawless, mirror nepros chrome.

i also badly want nepros ratchets. lol

 

[Fedwrench]

I don't think "end game" socket sets exist.

Tools too include sockets, continue to evolve. Granted, today's sockets and mechanics tools are probably the best they have ever been. Sockets today have more features like high vis size markings, off corner engagement, knurling, different lengths from low profile to extra deep, etc. that weren't available that long ago.

 

[seber]

are your snap-on sockets the williams usa-made ones?

i haven't tried nepros sockets either, but i'd like to.

my prediction is that compared to koken zeal, the chroming on them is nicer, but the fastener fit isn't as good. the tight fit is koken's thing in the z-series (tighter tolerances than ISO/DIN standard). and while i actually dig that satin finish of the zeal sockets, let's be real.. it's not as **** as the thick, flawless, mirror nepros chrome.

i also badly want nepros ratchets. lol

No, Snap-on brand. I also have some Williams in seldom used sizes and they are quite good.

 

[Dave455]

There’s little doubt that the KoKen are well up there.

The Z Series / Zeal are particularly nice, but also a little bit specialised. In most cases I think folks are better off with the regular tools, but it depends what you like / want. If you have Zeal sockets you should use Zeal handles with them

I think Snap On are better. They’re not a lot better, but they are better. I usually describe KoKen as 90% of Snap On quality for about 35% of the price. You don’t notice the difference in every tool (and for some tools, eg hex / Torx etc bits) I prefer KoKen. I think Snap On’s 1/4 drive is better than KoKen, and their Dual 80 ratchet’s are better, but the lines are so different it’s hard to make direct comparisons.

If you like German tools, Hazet are right up there too. Very tough, but also very useable without needing to baby it. The folks who get really into Hazet really love it. Hazet score on the number of specialised tools they offer, but once you move away from their “core” tools of wrenches and socket wrenches, some items are rebranded.

Nepros are probably nudging Snap On for the top slot, in fact might even have already nudged them off it for quality. If you like KoKen, you will love Nepros, and they offer wrenches too. They are very durable, but in some cases almost too good to use! (Wood handled screwdrivers)!

As to what to get, if you like the Z Series / Zeal tools, just get those in 3/8 drive and be done with it.

I think the Williams tools are good. I have some and they’re fine, but they’re also old. I have heard some comments on this forum that the current sockets are not as hard as Snap On. I don’t know. Industrial tools are generally hard wearing (that’s KoKen’s background) so I can’t see Snap On getting away with dropping quality that much, but on the other hand, you seldom get steak for burger money!

 

[richfinn]

i have Snap On flank drive that are fine, SK that are fine, Dewalt that are fine, newer Mac precision torque that are fine, Grey Pneumatic that are fine, Craftsman that are OK but not quite fine, and Stanley that are fine.

but to me, nothing beats the older style USA made Mac sockets. i've found them to be indestructible and always a solid, tight fit on everything. i keep a 1/4" master set SAE and Metric shallow and deep with extensions and swivel on my work truck. the ratchet is garbage and i broke it in the first month, but those sockets are the best i've ever used. once i can justify the ~$700 i'm going to get the 3/8" master set to go with it and i'll be walkin on sunshine forever happy for the rest of my life, presumably.

never tried any other brand though.

I have some older MAC USA 3/8 deep sockets and they are nice tools, I also really like my 3/8 Spinflex ratchet

My only gripe with them is I have to look really hard to see the size as there are so many numbers stamped into them

Good quality though

 

[pizza]

The Z Series / Zeal are particularly nice, but also a little bit specialised. In most cases I think folks are better off with the regular tools, but it depends what you like / want. If you have Zeal sockets you should use Zeal handles with them

I think Snap On are better. They’re not a lot better, but they are better. I usually describe KoKen as 90% of Snap On quality for about 35% of the price. You don’t notice the difference in every tool (and for some tools, eg hex / Torx etc bits) I prefer KoKen. I think Snap On’s 1/4 drive is better than KoKen, and their Dual 80 ratchet’s are better, but the lines are so different it’s hard to make direct comparisons.

If you like German tools, Hazet are right up there too. Very tough, but also very useable without needing to baby it. The folks who get really into Hazet really love it. Hazet score on the number of specialised tools they offer, but once you move away from their “core” tools of wrenches and socket wrenches, some items are rebranded.

Nepros are probably nudging Snap On for the top slot, in fact might even have already nudged them off it for quality. If you like KoKen, you will love Nepros, and they offer wrenches too. They are very durable, but in some cases almost too good to use! (Wood handled screwdrivers)!

As to what to get, if you like the Z Series / Zeal tools, just get those in 3/8 drive and be done with it.

I think the Williams tools are good. I have some and they’re fine, but they’re also old. I have heard some comments on this forum that the current sockets are not as hard as Snap On. I don’t know. Industrial tools are generally hard wearing (that’s KoKen’s background) so I can’t see Snap On getting away with dropping quality that much, but on the other hand, you seldom get steak for burger money!

i already have zeal metric sockets and would totally give them a try in SAE, but they don't make them in SAE.

i figured a lot of folks would say snap-on is at the top for SAE sockets, but i was also considering williams USA since snap-on owns williams, and they're probably made on the same line. afaik, the williams ones are just missing the knurling? haven't heard that they're softer before, but i could see that being true.

for comparison, a 12 pc 3/8" Koken ZEAL metric set (RS3400MZ/12) is about $50

a 13pc 3/8" Williams USA SAE set (WSB-13HRC) is about $60

i'm guessing the equivalent from snap-on is probably hundreds, though i'm actually having a hard time finding such a set.
i can find a deep socket version, and it's about $300: https://shop.snapon.com/product/Dee...Point-SAE-Flank-Drive-Deep-Socket-Set/211SFSY

you got me to look at the nepros website again, and to my surprise, they actually make SAE sockets!

a 15pc SAE set (no-skip, i think?) from nepros (NTB315BA3) is $147.
i'll probably buy that. i love nepros.

 

[MaximRecoil]

I think the Williams tools are good. I have some and they’re fine, but they’re also old. I have heard some comments on this forum that the current sockets are not as hard as Snap On. I don’t know. Industrial tools are generally hard wearing (that’s KoKen’s background) so I can’t see Snap On getting away with dropping quality that much, but on the other hand, you seldom get steak for burger money!

i figured a lot of folks would say snap-on is at the top for SAE sockets, but i was also considering williams USA since snap-on owns williams, and they're probably made on the same line. afaik, the williams ones are just missing the knurling? haven't heard that they're softer before, but i could see that being true.

There was one guy on another thread who recently offered up some sheer speculation that Williams sockets had a different, quicker heat treating process than Snap-on sockets. As it was sheer speculation, it wasn't based on any tests, observations, or insider information; it was just something that randomly popped into his head that he thought might happen which might explain the price difference.

Even if they are softer (and I haven't seen anyone provide any evidence of that, nor even anyone making the suggestion other than that one guy), it wouldn't necessarily matter much, as long as they weren't drastically softer. Impact sockets for example, are intentionally softer than hand sockets, and how long do those last? Better yet, how long do those last when they are only used as hand sockets? This is from a Snap-on technical reference article:

One difference you can’t see between these two different types of sockets has to do with the way each has been heat treated and/or the composition of the metal used. The impact socket made out of medium carbon alloy steel is heat treated to a low hardness range which has been optimized for impact use. This means that under heavy, continuous use, an impact socket will withstand the impact blows and will wear rather than break.

Hand sockets are made of medium carbon alloy steel heat treated to a hardness range commensurate with their size and configuration. Hand sockets are heat treated to a comparatively higher hardness for high strength and more wear resistance than impact sockets. But, they are made to sustain hand applied torque applications only. In other words, they are not designed for use on impact guns, and should never be used on them.

Also, heat treating to a lower hardness range isn't faster or otherwise more cost-effective than heat treating to a higher hardness range, so there wouldn't be any point to making Williams sockets softer. Final hardness is determined in the tempering stage, and:

"Lower temperatures maintain higher hardness while removing internal stresses, and higher temperatures reduce hardness."

So you need higher temperatures to end up with softer steel, and higher temperatures mean more energy consumption and a longer time for the steel to reach the higher temperature, all else being equal.

 

[nelstomlinson]

So you need higher temperatures to end up with softer steel, and higher temperatures mean more energy consumption and a longer time for the steel to reach the higher temperature, all else being equal.

All true, but I'm guessing the difference in tempering temperatures is the difference between 400F and 600F or 800F. Not huge, but I agree that a softer temper shouldn't cost less for the heat treatment. The steel for the softer temper might be cheaper....

 

[Avenging Bankroll]

nothing

 

[lardy1]

My sockets are all what I consider mid range. SK at the top and Tekton at the bottom. End game for me, I presume. I know very well that there are design features I'm not getting. But I doubt I'll ever buy better. I think end game is probably a personal choice influenced by a number of factors.

 

[VolvoRyan]

Sockets are wear items. One's endgame is another's good 'nuff for now.

Get what'cha like. I agree that there's diminishing returns on expensive sockets out of the box.... but those expensive sockets sure are sweet to use.

-Ryan

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

SK is one of my all time favorites along with Gearwrench and Proto for the regular sockets and of course Snap-on which I only have a few of because I don’t think it’s necessary to have regular sockets from Snap-on as a professional mechanic even though the warranty is convenient. Also Harbor Freight has amazing chrome and impact sockets both they are Taiwan made and work great so does Kobalt which are also Taiwan.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[M6erfan]

"End Game" sockets for me would be from a manufacturer that produced...

Lengths:
Shallow (Low profile) with universal design that works with typical ratchets
Standard
Long (Long pattern with shallow broaching)
Deep (Long pattern with deep broaching)

Design/features:
Satin finish
Fully shouldered and undercut
Deep knurling in the proper location to aid finger spinning
Large, deep size markings

Obviously strength, but that's a given.

Some come close (Hazet, Stahwille, Gedore, Ko-ken, OEMTools) but I'm not aware at any manufacturer that ticks all the boxes. I have little love for the featureless, straight wall, shiny chrome design that U.S. manufacturers offer.

 

[pizza]

"End Game" sockets for me would be from a manufacturer that produced...

Lengths:
Shallow (Low profile) with universal design that works with typical ratchets
Standard
Long (Long pattern with shallow broaching)
Deep (Long pattern with deep broaching)

Design/features:
Satin finish
Fully shouldered and undercut
Deep knurling in the proper location to aid finger spinning
Large, deep size markings

Obviously strength, but that's a given.

Some come close (Hazet, Stahwille, Gedore, Ko-ken, OEMTools) but I'm not aware at any manufacturer that ticks all the boxes. I have little love for the featureless, straight wall, shiny chrome design that U.S. manufacturers offer.

interesting

aesthetically, i think heavy, high quality, mirror-like chrome is hard to beat, but satin finish is also ****. satin also hides minor scuffs better. the koken zeal satin looks great imo.

i agree that knurling is also nice, but it matters less to me since i have quick spinners. love the zeal spinner.

i just ordered the nepros 15pc 3/8 SAE socket set (NTB315BA), a flex-head wrench (NBR390F), and a hat lol. it would be cool to compare them in person to snap-on someday, but i don't know anyone that has snappy stuff.

for metric, i'm still very satisfied with my zeal stuff.
but i think some koken nut grip sockets are also on the horizon for me.

 

[M6erfan]

interesting

aesthetically, i think heavy, high quality, mirror-like chrome is hard to beat, but satin finish is also ****. satin also hides minor scuffs better. the koken zeal satin looks great imo.

i agree that knurling is also nice, but it matters less to me since i have quick spinners. love the zeal spinner.

i just ordered the nepros 15pc 3/8 SAE socket set (NTB315BA), a flex-head wrench (NBR390F), and a hat lol. it would be cool to compare them in person to snap-on someday, but i don't know anyone that has snappy stuff.

for metric, i'm still very satisfied with my zeal stuff.
but i think some koken nut grip sockets are also on the horizon for me.

Yeah, "end game" is all personal preference really. Producing good sockets isn't rocket science, it's the added design features that set sockets apart and matters to me.

Your Nepros have a grippy plastic band in lieu of knurling. I wonder how that will hold up long term? I had some Nepros sockets and they are absolutely beautiful, both from a design and aesthetic standpoint. But I sold mine almost immediately because I knew I couldn't use them and scratch them up. I'm weird like that.

 

[pizza]

Yeah, "end game" is all personal preference really. Producing good sockets isn't rocket science, it's the added design features that set sockets apart and matters to me.

agreed. and fun to hear people's opinions on what the important features are and who does which feature best.

Your Nepros have a grippy plastic band in lieu of knurling. I wonder how that will hold up long term?

i really think those grips won't last, but we'll see. even so, i got them because i think nepros is dope.
edit: looks like you can buy replacement rubber grips if you want https://www.nepros.net/?cat=8&grp=31

I had some Nepros sockets and they are absolutely beautiful, both from a design and aesthetic standpoint. But I sold mine almost immediately because I knew I couldn't use them and scratch them up. I'm weird like that.

haha
my first nepros tool was one of their screwdrivers. beautiful thing, and i chewed the tip up on some extremely rusty, worn, and stubborn ************* fastener on my bicycle one of the first times i used it. the screwdriver was practically brand new, but i just happened to have it in my pocket, and i was too lazy to get something else. i'm a *****

 

[Ralf11]

Do other manf.s have something as good as Flank Drive?

I mostly have Snap-On but like the Hazets I have just a tad better...

The real issue is not strength, it is strength in a think-wall, good access design.

 

[M6erfan]

Know many people with Snap-on, but never seen or heard of anyone I know of having any of the above.

Guess it depends on who you know. But it's not surprising for the U.S.A., that the other foreign manufacturers aren't as well represented in American's tool boxes. S-o has perceived cachet, Made in USA, lifetime easy (I guess) warranty. The others are relatively unknown to most people, or harder to obtain, and some worry about warranty. Doesn't mean they're not as good or better than S-o chrome sockets.

 

[Dave455]

i already have zeal metric sockets and would totally give them a try in SAE, but they don't make them in SAE.
.

Why not try the regular KoKen sockets?

They’re slightly thicker / longer than the Z Series / Zeal, but they’re also stronger, and probably last better in normal use.

You’ve also got probably the best selection of ratchets / handles offered by any maker, to use with them.

Alternatively, some manufacturers offer special ‘aerospace grade’ tools, in SAE only, that are a notch up on their regular line. Koken again, offer these, as do Stahlwille. The latter are probably more costly than Snap On in the U.S. so I doubt they sell many. Koken seem to be good value everywhere though.

 

[Samuel D]

Fully shouldered and undercut

Shouldered and undercut where exactly? Maybe you have an example socket that fits your criteria and one that doesn’t so readers can compare and contrast?

I have little love for the featureless, straight wall, shiny chrome design that U.S. manufacturers offer.

Shiny chrome is strong and durable. Smoothly polished surfaces don’t have stress-raising notches that can lead to crack initiation and fatigue failure. Generally speaking, the harder/stronger the material, the greater is its sensitivity to surface defects. Admittedly, socket don’t usually see very high cycle counts. They do see high loads as a proportion of their strength, however.

Smooth surfaces are also more corrosion resistant.

Do other manf.s have something as good as Flank Drive?

Debatable.

They all have something similar, since everyone understood the merit of the idea and copied it after it emerged from patent protection (although the German companies and in particular Hazet took a long time to convert their ring spanners to the better shape, maybe seeing less benefit since their size tolerances are unusually good. A major benefit of Flank Drive is that it makes tool-fastener sizing less critical, i.e. some slop is almost harmless for torque transmission while making it quicker to fit the tool on the fastener).

However, implementations differ. I find the Snap-on shape subtly superior to most. But that’s from a theoretical perspective. I don’t own Snap-on sockets.

 

[bob15]

Do other manf.s have something as good as Flank Drive?

Bonney had a lobular design which was very, very similar to Flank Drive and had the patent issued in 1964 versus 1966 for Snappy. It took until the late 1990's before other companies started producing similar boxed ends, including Wright's Wright Drive.

Is the Bonney box end as good as the Snap On version? I think so.

 

[JiminAZ]

OP, I have recent manufacture 3/8 and 1/2 drive Williams USA sockets and also Proto. Have both manufacturers in regular and deep configurations, and have used them enough to give a thumbs up on quality/strength. So in that respect both are great but I'd give the nod to Proto for the simple reason that the markings are large and readable. Honestly the chrome job on my Proto sockets gives SnapOn a run for the money.

I also have SnapOn and Koken and old US Craftsman and a few oddball Taiwanese/Gearwrench/OEM/VIM sets. Honestly all are good.

I did more work as a (broke) young man with basic US Craftsman than I will likely do the rest of my life with the "endgame" stuff I have now.

As you note Koken are also very well thought out. Especially fond of the ones with the ball detent that will hold a bolt or nut.

 

[M6erfan]

Shouldered and undercut where exactly? Maybe you have an example socket that fits your criteria and one that doesn’t so readers can compare and contrast?

I'll take some pics or borrow some from the internet when I have time.

Shiny chrome is strong and durable. Smoothly polished surfaces don’t have stress-raising notches that can lead to crack initiation and fatigue failure. Generally speaking, the harder/stronger the material, the greater is its sensitivity to surface defects. Admittedly, socket don’t usually see very high cycle counts. They do see high loads as a proportion of their strength, however.

Smooth surfaces are also more corrosion resistant.

Hmmm, I have no idea if what you claim is true when talking about sockets and most real world usage. Isn't there something called stress peening?

Shot Peening
Used to induce residual compressive stress in the surface of components that are prone to cyclic and repetitive loads, the process also reduces stress corrosion cracking.

Again, not sure if any of this matters in most real world use of socket tools.

As far as corrosion, Ok maybe if working on a north sea oil rig, or other highly corrosive environment it matters, but I have decades old satin finish sockets and wrenches that haven't corroded. At all.

Edit: I've never broken a socket or wrench. Every rare instance of a socket tool related failure I've encountered happens at the drive tool (I.E. broken teeth).

 

[Ralf11]

...

I did more work as a (broke) young man with basic US Craftsman than I will likely do the rest of my life with the "endgame" stuff I have now.

...

well said

but once you are far from broke, you can appreciate the aesthetic pleasure of the feel of a good tool

beat buying jewelry

 

[seber]

Edit: I've never broken a socket or wrench. Every rare instance of a socket tool related failure I've encountered happens at the drive tool (I.E. broken teeth).

Interesting. I've never broken a ratchet although I did inherit a broken Snap-on ratchet. On the other hand I've broken more Craftsman sockets than I can count. When I was young I kept buying them at garage sales. I finally stopped using that brand and haven't had a problem since. When I was wasting them, I was unaware that there were manufacturers codes, so no data there.

 

[M6erfan]

Interesting. I've never broken a ratchet although I did inherit a broken Snap-on ratchet. On the other hand I've broken more Craftsman sockets than I can count. When I was young I kept buying them at garage sales. I finally stopped using that brand and haven't had a problem since. When I was wasting them, I was unaware that there were manufacturers codes, so no data there.

It probably depends on what you work on My C'man G series (circa about 2002) sockets are still in use (a lot) and I've never had to replace one (they're thin wall design too). I mainly work on motorcycles and the family's vehicle fleet, and I'm not in the rust belt. The only ratchets I've broken were C'man's.