End mill in a hand drill

[Bwana]

Anybody ever try this? I've had to drill out a bolt that holds the side stand on my FJR, it was corroded in place. Long story short, I drilled a pilot hole of 1/8 inch but it diverged toward the end of the bolt. When I came back with the 11/32 bit, the size for re-tapping the hole, it too started diverging from straight ahead. Probably because the hole is in the aluminum frame and the bolt is steel.

So now the hole is veering down towards the left, into the frame. I've got about a 1/4 inch to get to the end of the bolt but I'm afraid by then the hole will be huge.

In an imaginary world, I could put the bike on it's side in a vertical mill and simply do a plunge cut. But that's obviously not happening. So will an end mill (11/32") work in a hand drill?

 

[Bretny]

This is why drilling out bolts hardly works. You couldnt weld a nut onto the bolt before you drilled it?

 

[dontlifttoshift]

If your arms are as rigid and strong as a Bridgeport, it will work fine.

 

[Mr. T]

You could try. I foresee a broken 11/32” end mill being stuck in there as well if you do.

 

[LXCam]

If you have the room you could use a piece of say 1/2" thick steel. Drill the hole to the same size as the endmill, securely bolt or clamp it in place and then get after it. Trying this free handed will not end well.

 

[Bwana]

This is why drilling out bolts hardly works. You couldnt weld a nut onto the bolt before you drilled it?

I considered this, but the bolt head is recessed in the frame, not enough room to weld it. Plus, after I was able to get part of the head off, the corrosion was extensive, I doubt it would have come loose.

If you have the room you could use a piece of say 1/2" thick steel. Drill the hole to the same size as the endmill, securely bolt or clamp it in place and then get after it. Trying this free handed will not end well.

There's a good idea. The side stand fits between two sections of the frame so there is an outer hole where the bolt head used to be. And there are two bolts holding the side stand in place, I was able to get the first bolt out. I can use the side stand as a bolt pattern guide and drill a hole in a piece of steel the width of the side stand, bolt it in place with the other bolt, and use it as a guide for the end mill.

 

[EdT]

Mag drill might work with an end mill, but I doubt it would be stiff enough. End mills are mostly intended to cut side ways which is a problem you already have with a conventional drill which is not intended to cut sideways. If you try an end miil it will probably cut bigger than its stated size due to eccentricities in the chuck and wobble in the set up. As suggested above, some kind of guide would help no matter what kind of cutter you end up using. End mills are much more brittle that a twist drill and, therefore, very unforgiving if you try to bend them.

 

[kkroger]

OK I'll say it, this is intended to discourage you from this...
it is the worst idea in the long sad history of bad ideas...

 

[bullnerd]

pics?

 

[davethorik]

Wear safety glasses when you do this.

 

[kkroger]

pics?

These days? VIDEO!!!

 

[Bwana]

Will post pics when I find my phone cord

 

[matt_i]

Lets put it this way, an endmill won't even work in a drill press because of rigidity issues and the unsuitability of the drill chuck to hold the EM. No way its going to work in a hand held drill. Even Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime couldn't do it.

 

[gearhead1]

.......Even Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime couldn't do it.

No, but I bet Chuck Norris could!

(Sorry, couldn’t resist)

 

[Bretny]

Chuck norris would just turn the broken bolt out with a glance in the bolts direction

 

[LXCam]

Lets put it this way, an endmill won't even work in a drill press because of rigidity issues and the unsuitability of the drill chuck to hold the EM. No way its going to work in a hand held drill. Even Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime couldn't do it.

I wouldn't bet on that one matt. There's a reason I tossed it out there.

 

[ilovevocs]

Chuck norris would just turn the broken bolt out with a glance in the bolts direction

Here’s a guy who knows what he’s talking about.

 

[Coopduc]

Maybe a spot weld cutter would work.

 

[joecon]

What I would do is use a Dermal with a carbide burr. If you use a 1/8 burr
you can start with the hole you have and cut the bolt in half. then pick it
out. A spot weld cuter will work also but will be hard to hole on center. I
have used them to remove broken ez outs. Using the ez out as a center.

 

[gahrajmahal]

I had two half inch thick plates that needed a single hole slotted by half a hole. I purchased a four flute plunge type end mill. I clamped the plates onto my drill press and slowly plunged the mill half into an existing hole, slowly with lots of cutting fluid. Worked fine for me.

 

[rsanter]

If you have the room you could use a piece of say 1/2" thick steel. Drill the hole to the same size as the endmill, securely bolt or clamp it in place and then get after it. Trying this free handed will not end well.

This can work but the end mill will begin to cut into the steel
What you need to do is have a plate that you install a drill bushing.
These are very hard and will resist the put cutting into it

 

[Sliceddeuce]

What I would do is use a Dermal with a carbide burr. If you use a 1/8 burr
you can start with the hole you have and cut the bolt in half. then pick it
out. A spot weld cuter will work also but will be hard to hole on center. I
have used them to remove broken ez outs. Using the ez out as a center.

Bingo

 

[Bwana]

Yes, I believe this is the answer ^^^^^ Grainger has a 1/4" cone bit I'm going to try.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[bullnerd]

These days? VIDEO!!!

LOL, I meant of what he's trying to repair.

Not while he's repairing it. lol!

 

[kkroger]

LOL, I meant of what he's trying to repair.

Not while he's repairing it. lol!

Get Both?

 

[bullnerd]

Get Both?

Now your talkin'

 

[gungatim]

on one of the old Harley forums I used to frequent, a guy had an impossible situation like that, instead of a dremel, he ordered off amazon an air powered dentist drill. seems like it was pretty inexpensive ($60-ish) and woodworking guys use them for carving. anyway, I recall he spent some time and completely carved out the bolt without ruining the case. maybe it was this forum, I forget it's been a number of years, but I recall a lot of guys said the inexpensive dental drills with a good carbide bit are much easier to use than a dremel, more power and smaller/easier to control and maneuver...

good luck whatever you do...

 

[Samh]

if there is a hole in the bolt now, run a run down in it and weld it, then weld a nut on that.

Or worst case, drill it out, and if you ****** up the threads, weld the hold up, re drill and re-tap it

 

[Lotek]

What I would do is use a Dermal with a carbide burr. If you use a 1/8 burr
you can start with the hole you have and cut the bolt in half. then pick it
out. A spot weld cuter will work also but will be hard to hole on center. I
have used them to remove broken ez outs. Using the ez out as a center.

This^^^ The other option is to take it to a bolt extraction company, who will use an EDM machine to remove the bolt, which might be expensive, depending on your location but might save the threads on the frame if you haven't already cut into them. Don't use a 1/4" cone bit, it will be too hard to control, you want either a ball or round end straight 1/8" burr, it will take time, but it can be done. I've removed a broken tap from a 1/4" hole in an aluminum timing cover in the car using this method, not to mention larger stuff.

 

[Bwana]

Well, I finally achieved some sort of success. I got the bolt out and was able to thread what was left of the hole. Great ideas here guys, thanks. I really like the idea of the drill bushing jig, that's probably a winner. And I used an EDM when I was a machinist but only in the vertical direction with some sort of oil. Do they work horizontally?

Anyway, I was able to finally drill the bolt out. I tried using an 11/32" drill as that is the size for a 10X1.25 bolt but the dead center was too much so it didn't get far. However, I by pure accident lucked into the bit making a flat spot at the bottom of the hole so I could re-start the pilot hole with a 3/16" bit. The outer frame rail acted like the pilot bushing for the 11/32" drill as mentioned above. I was then able to finish it and tap what was left. I'm still pretty sure the hole is a combination of part the old bolt and part of the frame but it holds for now.

The bolt corrosion was complete, pretty much fused the bolt to the frame. You can see some of it below the bolt flange in the first picture.

Don't know how these pictures will come out but you can also see how I slotted what was left of the bolt head with a Dremel cutoff tool. I back cut the slot so the drag link tool I used wouldn't walk out of the slot. I couldn't get any action on the 1/2" tool with a breaker bar so I finally used an impact hammer. You can see what it did to the tool but didn't even budge the bolt, only sheared the head. And boy did both the tool and the bolt head get hot! BTW, I did soak the whole assembly with Aero-Kroll for a couple of days but to no avail!

The lower three pictures are where the side stand mounts, the offending bolt was in the left hole. The middle picture shows the inner frame where the bolts land. The last picture is of the side stand bracket and a piece of the corroded bolt.

Quite the exercise but success in the end. I didn't try full torque on the bad bolt but it did tighten up pretty well. Thanks for all the help and suggestions

 

[2oolhound]

Way to go. Thanks for the update!