Enegry use/KWh per sqft comparison

[jar944]

I recently saw a similar thread (different site) that was about Home energy use comparisons but more related to overall usage for a year. Now you can't really compare houses with just overall consumption without taking into account the temperature deltas at a minimum and generally assuming the major factor is heating and cooling. Between that thread and a recent conversation with a friend about a new wood burner and subsequent 50% $250 reduction in their Monthly electric bill I thought it was interesting to see the differences.

With that in mind I thought it might be interesting to see the per sqft energy usage people are experiencing.

For me it's 2.89kwh and .150 gallons of propane per sqft per year.

 

[mike93lx]

For the last year, I am at 6.74kwh and 0.14 ccf natural gas.

My pool is a good chunk of that electric usage... I would wager to guess between 1 and 1.5kwh. I also have heat pumps for 2 of 3 zones, despite having natural gas, so that's a factor. Gas was 0.27 ccf/ft for the year prior to Installing them.

 

[ArcReactorKC]

I think in the modern era it's very difficult to compare kwh/sqft.

Our current home is very low in square feet but also have multiple server racks and a small 3d print farm running in it. We use 5 times what our neighbors use. It's always kind of humorous to see what we use compared to our "efficient neighbors"


Edit: Just went to evergy and did the math.... son of a *****...

 

[mike93lx]

I think in the modern era it's very difficult to compare kwh/sqft.

Our current home is very low in square feet but also have multiple server racks and a small 3d print farm running in it. We use 5 times what our neighbors use. It's always kind of humorous to see what we use compared to our "efficient neighbors"


Edit: Just went to evergy and did the math.... son of a *****...

Let's see the numbers!

 

[jar944]

I think in the modern era it's very difficult to compare kwh/sqft.

Our current home is very low in square feet but also have multiple server racks and a small 3d print farm running in it. We use 5 times what our neighbors use. It's always kind of humorous to see what we use compared to our "efficient neighbors"


Edit: Just went to evergy and did the math.... son of a *****...

For sure it's not a valid comparison for a variety of reasons. But still interesting to see.

And now I'm really curious based on the edit..lol

 

[sailor_lou]

The numbers for me are 2.44 Kwh and 0.389 gallons of propane per sqft per year.

 

[racecougar]

I've only ever tracked the cost rather than the usage, and I'm struggling to find the annual usage totals on Ameren's website. My house and shop are both entirely electric (no propane, wood, etc.). The house is 2800 sq ft and the shop is 1800 sq ft (4600 sq ft combined). Average electric bill over the 67 months I've owned the place is $114.04 per month. This is in MO, near St. Louis. The house was designed to follow the passive solar architecture methods, and both the house and shop are well insulated and sealed.

EDIT: Added this below as well, but I used 11,306 kWh over the past 12 months, so 2.457 kWh per sq ft per year if including the shop and 4.038 if excluding the shop. Forgot to mention that we're a family of three, the house is 30 years old this year, and both the house and shop run heat pumps (24K mini-split for the shop).

 

[nicholsmf]

Mine is 7.57 kWh per square foot for the last 365 days. I don't think that's too bad considering it stays 65 degrees and 45% humidity year round and a lot of cutting, grinding, and welding going on in there. It only averages $4.18 a day.

 

[jar944]

I've only ever tracked the cost rather than the usage, and I'm struggling to find the annual usage totals on Ameren's website. My house and shop are both entirely electric (no propane, wood, etc.). The house is 2800 sq ft and the shop is 1800 sq ft (4600 sq ft combined). Average electric bill over the 67 months I've owned the place is $114.04 per month. This is in MO, near St. Louis. The house was designed to follow the passive solar architecture methods, and both the house and shop are well insulated and sealed.

I just added up the monthly electric statement (kwh) for the past 12 months.

Either way I'd kill for a $114 average all inclusive.

 

[Zeke]

No kidding. More like $300/mo. here 1300 feet. Some garage usage, of course. But no AC out there.

 

[pcmeiners]

Can't imagine a decent comparison by square foot with more than a thousand variables; perhaps when AI becomes real you might be able to get a good answer.

Below is the average cost of most fuels, average cost per BTU unit, which can vary by local.......

https://www.maine.gov/energy/sites/maine.gov.energy/files/inline-files/Home-Heating-Calculator.xls

 

[jar944]

Can't imagine a decent comparison by square foot with more than a thousand variables; perhaps when AI becomes real you might be able to get a good answer.

Below is the average cost of most fuels, average cost per BTU unit, which can vary by local.......

https://www.maine.gov/energy/sites/maine.gov.energy/files/inline-files/Home-Heating-Calculator.xls

View attachment 2016077

As I mentioned in thr first post it's not a real comparison without a lot of additional information, but it's interesting to see.

Removing cost was intentional as another significant variable.

 

[purplezr2]

I think in the modern era it's very difficult to compare kwh/sqft.

Our current home is very low in square feet but also have multiple server racks and a small 3d print farm running in it. We use 5 times what our neighbors use. It's always kind of humorous to see what we use compared to our "efficient neighbors"


Edit: Just went to evergy and did the math.... son of a *****...

Propane is the same.

Mine is $.33 per sqft.- but I would say that I live in one of the colder climates.

My electrical usage is 3.79KW per sqft.

 

[larry4406]

Interesting @jar944

I am just up the road from you, so our climate is the same.

We have a rambler on a walkout basement built 1987. Heat pump for heat and AC and a HPWH we installed 5/31/20. New windows went in 1/31/21, and we significantly redid the attic insulation 6/22. Starting around 7/22 we began using propane only for the cooktop (only appliance on gas).

We use a wood stove for heat during the heating season to augment.

We have around 3800 SF in the total thermal envelope even though the basement is unfinished. Below is a chart I just put together from the data I have been keeping.

In this chart, I simply totaled the annual usage and $ from the monthly bills (did not segregate the $/kwhr rate for demand charges, tariffs, etc.) for the year, divided by the total SF inside the thermal envelope. We have Dominion Energy.

Surprised how high my numbers are compared to your 2.89kwh/SF.

My wife and daughters insist the HVAC fan runs 24/7/365 to recirculate the air so I am sure this is part of the disparity.

Year	kwhr/sf	$/SF
2019	8.33	0.95
2020	7.11	0.82
2021	7.55	0.87
2022	6.89	0.83
2023	6.28	0.84

 

[ybnormal]

I'm all electric, in a Texas Coop, but during the summer my bill can get north of $200, for a house built in 1984. I'm sure a big part of the problem is my house is on a hill facing east with no shade east or west, just south. we get full sun all day long.

 

[jar944]

Interesting @jar944

I am just up the road from you, so our climate is the same.

We have a rambler on a walkout basement built 1987. Heat pump for heat and AC and a HPWH we installed 5/31/20. New windows went in 1/31/21, and we significantly redid the attic insulation 6/22. Starting around 7/22 we began using propane only for the cooktop (only appliance on gas).

We use a wood stove for heat during the heating season to augment.

We have around 3800 SF in the total thermal envelope even though the basement is unfinished. Below is a chart I just put together from the data I have been keeping.

In this chart, I simply totaled the annual usage and $ from the monthly bills (did not segregate the $/kwhr rate for demand charges, tariffs, etc.) for the year, divided by the total SF inside the thermal envelope. We have Dominion Energy.

Surprised how high my numbers are compared to your 2.89kwh/SF.

My wife and daughters insist the HVAC fan runs 24/7/365 to recirculate the air so I am sure this is part of the disparity.

Year	kwhr/sf	$/SF
2019	8.33	0.95
2020	7.11	0.82
2021	7.55	0.87
2022	6.89	0.83
2023	6.28	0.84

I'm 5600 heated and 6200 cooled when the ac is running in the garage (june-sept) For the ease of calculating I just used 5600. Total 12 month kwh was 16255, and propane delivered over the last 12 months was 845 gallons. I still have 45%~450g in the tank but used 845 as the number. Electric and propane combined over the 12 months was $0.74/sqft.

Im guessing the big usage difference between houses (besides only 2 of us) is my wife is both always cold, and at the same time depression era cheap (but only with heat and ac) so the thermostat is set to 75 in the summer and 67 in the winter. The other potential reason (and this only applies to heating) is I have a metric **** ton (proper scientific measurement) of solar gain in the winter as all my large windows are facing due south. Thermostat will be set on 67 its 30 degrees outside and the living toom is 72 degrees.

What really got me wondering recently was the friend's in Clifton who were $500/month electric in a 1600sqft 1970s "ramblerish" house on a crawl space.

 

[larry4406]

I'm 5600 heated and 6200 cooled when the ac is running in the garage (june-sept) For the ease of calculating I just used 5600. Total 12 month kwh was 16255, and propane delivered over the last 12 months was 845 gallons. I still have 45%~450g in the tank but used 845 as the number. Electric and propane combined over the 12 months was $0.74/sqft.

Im guessing the big usage difference between houses (besides only 2 of us) is my wife is both always cold, and at the same time depression era cheap (but only with heat and ac) so the thermostat is set to 75 in the summer and 67 in the winter. The other potential reason (and this only applies to heating) is I have a metric **** ton (proper scientific measurement) of solar gain in the winter as all my large windows are facing due south. Thermostat will be set on 67 its 30 degrees outside and the living toom is 72 degrees.

What really got me wondering recently was the friend's in Clifton who were $500/month electric in a 1600sqft 1970s "ramblerish" house on a crawl space.

Family of 4 adults here, so lots of hot water, showers, laundry, etc. Also they think because they are up, they should turn every light on in the house and leave them on when they leave the room or even the house!

Other day I looked at my wife and she said where are you going? House lights burning full bright in every room and no one around. Told her I was going out to the barn since I noticed that the inside lights weren't on! Well that went over like a fart in church, which led to the discussion of needless running of lights and fan and jacking up the electric bill. I think I then went to the basement for the rest of the day to hide.

 

[mike93lx]

Family of 4 adults here, so lots of hot water, showers, laundry, etc. Also they think because they are up, they should turn every light on in the house and leave them on when they leave the room or even the house!

Other day I looked at my wife and she said where are you going? House lights burning full bright in every room and no one around. Told her I was going out to the barn since I noticed that the inside lights weren't on! Well that went over like a fart in church, which led to the discussion of needless running of lights and fan and jacking up the electric bill. I think I then went to the basement for the rest of the day to hide.

You have all led's? Add up the wattage and calculate the running cost of those lights... I bet I am at about 5 cents per hour to run every single bulb in my house. Hell, round it up to 10 for argument's sake.

I give my kids **** for it on principle, but not my wife

 

[larry4406]

You have all led's? Add up the wattage and calculate the running cost of those lights... I bet I am at about 5 cents per hour to run every single bulb in my house. Hell, round it up to 10 for argument's sake.

I give my kids **** for it on principle, but not my wife

We have almost all LED’s except for attached garage which has T8’s of which about 60-70% have failed. The garage light failures apiece to be the ballasts as new bulbs don’t bring them on.

 

[racecougar]

I've only ever tracked the cost rather than the usage, and I'm struggling to find the annual usage totals on Ameren's website. My house and shop are both entirely electric (no propane, wood, etc.). The house is 2800 sq ft and the shop is 1800 sq ft (4600 sq ft combined). Average electric bill over the 67 months I've owned the place is $114.04 per month. This is in MO, near St. Louis. The house was designed to follow the passive solar architecture methods, and both the house and shop are well insulated and sealed.

Finally found where Ameren hides the usages. Looks like I used 11,306 kWh over the past 12 months, so 2.457 kWh per sq ft per year if including the shop and 4.038 if excluding the shop. Forgot to mention that we're a family of three, the house is 30 years old this year, and both the house and shop run heat pumps (24K mini-split for the shop).

 

[Daedalus]

We use natgas for the water heater and cooking only, and house size doesn't really affect that. So we're mostly electric, including the heatpump and 1 electric car. Usage is low, but our costs are high, so we got solar this year. Electric costs are from the 12 months before then. I threw in gasoline consumption too. All in, we use very little energy vs the average.

7.5 cubic feet of natgas per sq ft per year
2.97 kwh per sq ft per year
156 gallons of gasoline per year

 

[ipgenie]

We exported more electricity than we used last year so no net power used. Attached garage has in floor heat. Shop doesn't have a minisplit yet since I'm still building it and heat was only on in the big area when working in it. 12x36 workroom is heated above freezing all winter though, electric when off peak and propane otherwise. House/garage was 95+ % electric.

All in we used 200 gallons last year so 0.0 kWh/ sq ft and .031 gallons of propane/sq ft. (6400 ft sq combined house, garage and shop)


Edit: Before solar we were 0.25 gallons / sq ft propane and 3.8 kWh.

 

[mike93lx]

We exported more electricity than we used last year so no net power used. Attached garage has in floor heat. Shop doesn't have a minisplit yet since I'm still building it and heat was only on in the big area when working in it. 12x36 workroom is heated above freezing all winter though, electric when off peak and propane otherwise. House/garage was 95+ % electric.

All in we used 200 gallons last year so 0.0 kWh/ sq ft and .031 gallons of propane/sq ft. (6400 ft sq combined house, garage and shop)

You still used power, you just generated it from a system you paid for instead of bought it from a utility. It's not free nor no usage

 

[ipgenie]

You still used power, you just generated it from a system you paid for instead of bought it from a utility. It's not free nor no usage

True, it'll be 3 more years before we break even, then it'll be free assuming no repair expenses. We use way more electricity now than before.

 

[larry4406]

What really got me wondering recently was the friend's in Clifton who were $500/month electric in a 1600sqft 1970s "ramblerish" house on a crawl space.

Wow! I feel bad for your friend's energy consumption. I updated my chart to include annual and monthly total electric costs for our 3800 SF home.

Year	kwhr/sf	$/SF	$ Annual	$ Average
2019	8.33	0.95	$3,611.15	$300.93
2020	7.11	0.82	$3,114.78	$259.56
2021	7.55	0.87	$3,328.63	$277.39
2022	6.89	0.83	$3,166.23	$263.85
2023	6.28	0.84	$3,191.56	$265.96

 

[Yankeefarmer]

How do these comparisons have any value without consideration of heating/cooling degree-days?

 

[mike93lx]

How do these comparisons have any value without consideration of heating/cooling degree-days?

They don't really. It's just a discussion

 

[larry4406]

How do these comparisons have any value without consideration of heating/cooling degree-days?

In my and @jar944 's case, we live within about 10 miles of each other and his friend in Clifton is maybe 20 miles from us.

 

[jar944]

We have almost all LED’s except for attached garage which has T8’s of which about 60-70% have failed. The garage light failures apiece to be the ballasts as new bulbs don’t bring them on.

We are all led at this point, except for some bathroom vanity lights. I'm the one that leaves the lights on, and wants it operating room level brightness for anything I'm doing that requires looking at something othet than a computer screen. My wife likes amish candle level lighting for almost everything. It's almost comical the difference. I've tried to explain the cost is so negligible but I've given up.

How do these comparisons have any value without consideration of heating/cooling degree-days?

They don't, just like they don't take Into consideration the number of people living there, if you are mining bitcoin and have a grow room in your basement. It's a fun discussion/ conversation.

 

[jar944]

Wow! I feel bad for your friend's energy consumption. I updated my chart to include annual and monthly total electric costs for our 3800 SF home.

I was surprised to hear it was $500 honestly.

 

[Daedalus]

At those costs I would have gotten solar long before I did. I can count on one hand the number of bills north of $200 that we've had since moving here 11 years ago. Granted, the panels don't work as well in the winter, but in the summer it's nice.

 

[mike93lx]

Mine top out in the mid 400's when I am running both the a/c and pool heaters. And that's at 13 cdnts/kwh

 

[bb29510]

i dont know how to calcullate but mine all electric 1200 sq ft and my is $88 a nonth

 

[mike93lx]

i dont know how to calcullate but mine all electric 1200 sq ft and my is $88 a nonth

Look at your bill. They'll tell you the kwh usage, and usually a history. Get a total usage for the year, divide by Sq footage

 

[Two Speed]

1.32kwhr/sqft avg. for the year.

Single, 2100sq ft house. So that skews overall results as it is. I don't leave lights on, and usually work with low wattage LED desk lights. (I hate artificially lit bright rooms, bugs my eyes) and I don't leave lights on unless in the room. Motion lights outside.

With heating season on us, cost me an extra dollar per day to keep the house at 73F. No idea about cubic feet used because I don't want to create an online account. But natural gas is 100-135 per month typically, most of that being taxes and delivery fees. I set one temperature and leave it there 24/7, no temperature roulette here. All rooms heated/cooled + basement. I don't play the game of sealing off rooms and other nonsense.
For me, the delivery fees and taxes exceed the cost of the product itself for all my utilities. Water being the worst offender in that regard.