Engine Building Tools

[Pudge87]

When you posted this, I was in the middle of writing a response indicating that people here must be building Indy car engines! Glyptol gives minimal oil return increase, but can cause major havoc if it starts to peel. Unless you are running a weird sized bore you can usually get rings that don't need to be filed. Never needed a stretch gauge for rod bolts, torque seems to work ok for me. I use a 20+ year old $60 craftman click torque wrench and it has never been outside of tolerance whenever I checked it on a torque wrench calibrator. A degree wheel and a piston stop aren't needed on a stock build, just use the marks.

Funny no one mentioned an engine stand!

Chris

I think you're on the same page as most of us here. I'd agree with the Glyptol statement, I'd rather polish the inside of the block than paint it. The stretch gauge isn't used much on stock rebuilds, but in performance applications its commonly used and ARP strongly recommends it. Also the OP isn't going with a stock rebuild, but with a pretty involved build. So with that said I would recommend a degree wheel and a piston stop or dial indicator.

 

[JonnFX]

Ah, good eyes, Chris.
It's already in my Dodge Magnum SRT8.






https://scontent-b.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1014744_581781538528118_764339554_o.jpg

Sorry for the extra large photo.

 

[Pudge87]

OMG!!!! You mean it runs and you used a harbor freight indicator . Clean looking engine bay. Are the rear calipers in that position from the factory? Never paid any attention to them.

 

[hsracer]

I build high end race engines for a living. From $20,000 bracket motors to $135,000 Australian Pro Stock Motors. For what you are doing you don't need the best money can buy but you'll never gone wrong with that. Being an overhead cam import engine this should be most of what you need.

3/8 metric shallow sockets 12 pt
3/8 metric deep sockets 12 pt
3/8 ratchet
Metric wrench set
Soft Blow 16 oz Hammer
Screw driver set
Needle nose pliers
3/8 torque wrench(best you can afford=critical for load. Rec Snap-on Dial)
0 to 1 Mic,
1 to 2 Mic,
3 to 4 Mic(Fowler or SPI)
A ball mic anvil tip for checking bearing thickness
Dial Indicator(Central Tool)
Magnetic Stand(SPI)
File Set
Feeler gauge set
Large dial bore gauge(yours should work fine)
Small dial bore gauge(.7-1.4 Federal is a ok brand)
Machinist vise to hold the mics to set the dial bore gauge
Rod vise
Ring compressor(whatever bore you running)
Ring filer(electric Pro-Form if you can afford it)
Degree wheel

Good luck and have fun

 

[JonnFX]

OMG!!!! You mean it runs and you used a harbor freight indicator . Clean looking engine bay. Are the rear calipers in that position from the factory? Never paid any attention to them.

Yep, on the indicator. I figured someone would get on that. Ha ha I tried some of my better indicators, but I went and bought this digital one and it worked the best. The motor runs like a Swiss watch (one with a bit of grunt).

The calipers, front and rear, are stock Brembos, but with a two step power coat. The rotors are aftermarket.

I better shut up as I seem to be hijacking this thread. Sorry...Jonn

 

[1950mercury]

Plasti gauge

 

[2oolhound]

I don't trust ANY machinist, EVER. Always double check what they tell you.

Hey now, I'm offended by that statement. If I do something, its right.

I know what you mean. I thought I'd made a mistake one time but as it turned out I was mistaken.

 

[Pudge87]

I'm not saying that I've never made a mistake. If you've been doing it awhile its going to happen, but I'm not going to hide anything from you. Most of the time in the machining world, its a stupid mistake as we call it. You miss it by, .025, .050, .100 or even 1". You get caught up looking at the "small number" and forget about the "big number". Now if you miss it by a few thousandths while honing, you pretty much f*$@ed up.

 

[Pudge87]

Also I see some recommendations for plasti gauge. Yea its helpful if you don't have measuring equipment, but the OP want's measuring equipment to check everything. Ends up being useless IMO.

 

[Deskmechanic]

Yep, if you have a 2-3 mic and a dbg in that range, and a ball tip for your mic, there's no need to use plastigage for checking bearing clearances. You can just measure them. PG has it's place for cheap & dirty bearing replacement jobs where you aren't pulling the motor. But not a rebuild.

 

[A_Pmech]

Setting a dial bore gage with a micrometer is poor practice, in my opinion. Unless:

1) The accuracy required is not greater than one thousandth or so.

2) The gage is being set to make a comparative measurement.

Regarding tenths:

A tenth requires no miracle to accurately measure and hitting a tenth on a good quality manual grinding machine is like throwing a hotdog down a hallway.

In fact, the technology to mechanically indicate to millionths has existed for over a century. The first gage blocks were compared on such an instrument during the time when Pratt and Whitney standardized the inch. Mechanical direct reading micrometers to .0001" are readily available, as are comparative electronic mics to an order of magnitude greater accuracy. The key to using them with certainty is the repeat zero technique.

I'm sure your employer has a reason for purchasing such equipment, but really expensive CNC equipment isn't required to hit or quantify very tight numbers. Tighter tolerances than a tenth have been held on machinery which long ago got turned into toasters.

I appreciate the enthusiasm of the reply but I do not know how you can achieve accuracy to a tenth of a thousandth of an inch (0.0001 inch) from micrometers?? I am interested to know because we have invested over $10 million in machine tools and 0.5 million in a coordinate measurement system to achieve these measurement accuracies.....

 

[Pudge87]

Setting a dial bore gage with a micrometer is poor practice, in my opinion. Unless:

1) The accuracy required is not greater than one thousandth or so.

2) The gage is being set to make a comparative measurement.

In which building an engine applies to #2. You should have every component going into the engine, so every measurement is a comparative measurement.

In my opinion some people get bent out of shape on this stuff. As long as no tolerance is too tight, the thing is going to run. Even when everything is dead on spec, during break in your going to have metal particles in the oil. That tells me that tenth people are talking about, just went out the window.

 

[cpl]

Thanks everyone for all the help. i cant thank enought =)

gave me a good start point.

i will post my progress in the next months !

thankz

 

[justanengineer]

Yep, if you have a 2-3 mic and a dbg in that range, and a ball tip for your mic, there's no need to use plastigage for checking bearing clearances. You can just measure them. PG has it's place for cheap & dirty bearing replacement jobs where you aren't pulling the motor. But not a rebuild.

+1. Weve written plastigage out of service procedures bc its not really accurate nor repeatable. JMHO, but its not for modern engines unless as you said, somebody needs cheap and dirty.

JMHO again, but rather than sweat a machinist over size and shape tolerances I'm always more concerned about position simply bc its easy to make a mistake and/or be lazy and expensive to do the job correctly. To really perform well, small details like the crank-cylinder relationship, offsets, and spacing need to be correct. Personally, Ive seen many more issues with this than I have with shops failing to bore to the correct size, straight, and non-tapered.

It also takes a lot of practice to be able to accurately and repeatedly measure tight tolerances.

 

[Packard V8]

From here in the US, we can't really address the quality of and customer relationship with Brazilian machine shops.

However, in the US, there are production shops and job shops who are always competing on price. If we're getting into measuring tenths and arguing with the machinist as to whose measurement is correct, it's a problem and most of them will tell a customer up front they don't offer that quality of service. They're doing "good enough." If one goes to the OEM specifications, there are always several ten-thousandths of an inch even on something as small and tight as a valve stem to guide. On cylinder bores and crankshafts, the allowable variance is thousandths (.001"), not tenths of thousandths (.0001").

However, when building a max performance engine and desiring all clearances to be held within specified tenths, expect to travel farther, take longer and pay more. Speed costs money. How fast can you afford to go?

A performance machine shop here in the US will rightly not appreciate a customer who used a micrometer to set his $100 Fowler dial bore gauge once a month coming back to question the machinist who is using his $2500 Sunnen every five minutes and who for the bore job just set it using a $1500 Sunnen bench comparator.

One tactic which might work is if one really wants to learn to use a dial bore gauge, ask to drop your gauge off with the block and have it set on the same bench comparator the machinist is using for your bore job. Just knowing the checking will be occurring is not a bad thing.

My machinist supplies core engines to a large downtown production house, so he's in there every week watching their processes. Because it's piece-work, they run their hones at max effort. This heats the block. When the block cools, the bores are still going to be within the allowable range, but not really round and really straight. An engine might be in and out in the same day.

In his own shop, he'll take weeks longer, cost twice as much and is fifty miles further out.
But using the same type hone, my guy takes three times as long to hone a block, leaves the last few tenths, lets the block completely cool, then finishes to exact spec.

He loses a lot of quotes from those only looking for cheapest. He'll always have my business because he's the best I've ever seen.

Bottom line - find the good machinists and pay for their quality. Checking is always good, but avoiding an argument over ruined parts is better.

jack vines