Engine gaskets

[vette-kid]

Lets talk engine gaskets for a minute. I working on a project with a budget and I see head gaskets are ALL over the place as far as price. Head gaskets go from about $40 a set to $100/ea! Some of the others are pretty bad too, but I think head gaskets are the worst offender. So not having much engine assembly experience, are these worth the extra coin? Im not building a road racer that will see extended high rpm and heavy abuse, just a street brawler that will spend most of its time as a law abiding vehicle. Its an alum head 383 in a 78 vette. Im down to the gaskets and a few other odds an ins before I start assembly, and I dont want to blow my budget just on gaskets! Thoughts, recommendations?

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[ihredo4]

AFAIK the high dollar gaskets are typically special. Something that has been Fire-Ringed or a special material. I don't really know that for a fact as I have to make all my own or have them laser cut for the antique tractors I rebuild. However I would deffinately stay with a well known high profile manufacturer. Hope this helps.

 

[vette-kid]

Its a similar story with wheel bearings. $35 to $80 for the front end kit, are the more expensive Timken's worth it on a street car?

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[cgall]

If you are building a pump gas engine, the standard Felpro perf. gaskets will be more than enough. A high compression engine might need a head gasket with a fire ring. The next level would be a power adder, then you get into the higher priced gaskets. An aluminum head with a fire-ring gasket will eventually emboss a ring into the head, requiring the heads to be shaved on the next rebuild.

On the wheel bearings I like to go with the name brand.

 

[srmofo]

Ive found more and more often that OEM gaskets are almost the same money if not cheaper than FelPros. I always like to check OEMs price first because I prefer OEM on every vehicle.

Felpros are more than enough for a weekend warrior pump gas car

 

[J Persons]

If you use Fel-Pro, be sure and use the ones designed for aluminum heads. The gasket for aluminum heads uses a soft copper wire inside the fire ring, the one for iron heads uses a steel wire. Fel-Pro also has lock wire head gaskets, these require a receiver groove be cut i the head by a machinist. Stay away from these unless you have deep pockets.
http://www.federalmogul.com/en/Afte.../EngineRepair/PerformanceHeadGaskets/LocWire/

Here's a page from Jegs showing what gaskets are available for a SBC
http://www.jegs.com/i/Fel+Pro/375/1003/10002/-1

 

[brownbagg]

just makesure you go with a good name brand

 

[MBfreak]

Rebuilding some V8s can need considrable attention to detail. The head gasket is one of these issues. B4 considering gaskets, make sure that the (alu?) heads are straight and that the top of the block is even and // with the crankshaft CL.
Also that the two halves have equal height to the crankshaft CL.
Top-decking can be needed and head planing. The fact that the engine had no issues before disassembly is not proof that all is well, once the engine is stripped for a rebuild.

After you are sure that block and heads are OK, a standard big-name gasket is perfectly OK.

Best regards

Ola

 

[sparky7]

fel pro man, you will be fine. High dollar stuff is used to do stuff like lower compression or for high boost

 

[csargents1546]

I go with oem gaskets, better fit and proven.

 

[laskt9]

Oem.

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[Murphy4570]

Fel Pro or Mr Gasket are both good gasket brands. 99% of the gaskets I use are Fel pro, and I almost never have a problem.

 

[mkbrower]

When replacing head gaskets on performance engines with aluminum heads, I like to use fel-pro MLS (Multi layered steel) gaskets. I also use ARP studs.

 

[Bender78]

Oem.

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I've never had a failure on a SBC using OEM or Felpro gaskets.


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[sberry]

I forget, bought Mr. Gasket on line, some engines were like 20 a set for sbc, unreal, seem to work fine. Biggest place I see in most cars for upgraded gaskets (from OEM style) is in the intakes where they re engineer for common problems.

 

[Big-Foot]

If you use Fel-Pro, be sure and use the ones designed for aluminum heads. The gasket for aluminum heads uses a soft copper wire inside the fire ring, the one for iron heads uses a steel wire. Fel-Pro also has lock wire head gaskets, these require a receiver groove be cut i the head by a machinist. Stay away from these unless you have deep pockets.
http://www.federalmogul.com/en/Afte.../EngineRepair/PerformanceHeadGaskets/LocWire/

Here's a page from Jegs showing what gaskets are available for a SBC
http://www.jegs.com/i/Fel+Pro/375/1003/10002/-1

THIS is the correct answer...

I have read too many threads about blown or leaking headgaskets where aluminum heads are concerned.. Aluminum expansion rates are vastly different from iron.
Years ago the best headgasket for the SBC was the stamped steel "shim" gasket. Spray paint both sides with silver paint and install .. That, however, was with iron heads on an iron block and we ran compression ratios upwards of 14:1...

 

[ddawg16]

Rebuilding some V8s can need considrable attention to detail. The head gasket is one of these issues. B4 considering gaskets, make sure that the (alu?) heads are straight and that the top of the block is even and // with the crankshaft CL.
Also that the two halves have equal height to the crankshaft CL.
Top-decking can be needed and head planing. The fact that the engine had no issues before disassembly is not proof that all is well, once the engine is stripped for a rebuild.

After you are sure that block and heads are OK, a standard big-name gasket is perfectly OK.

Best regards

Ola

Good advice......no gasket in the world is going to compensate for a head that is not straight.

OEM if possible....Felpro will also do you well.....just make sure you use the right gaskets....their kits tend to be 'one size fits several'....your going to end up with left over pieces....

And....

Be CLEAN.....

Take the leav blower....blow out the dirt in the garage before you start to assemble....dirt is your enemy.

 

[Falcon67]

Who made the heads - ask THEM and buy THAT. And make sure whatever you use - which will be some sort of MLS because of aluminum on steel - that your head and deck finish is to the gasket suppliers specs. This is the second important thing to prevent gasket/seal failure. This is a critical sealing area on an engine, whether it's a drag car or going in your mom's station wagon. The answer above on FelPro MSL is the right path. YES - price makes a BIG difference in the gasket because of construction and performance. If it take $250 worth of Cometic gaskets to seal your heads to the block, pay it and you'll get 10x return in enjoyment because you won't be screwing with the head seal.

 

[Long haul]

I'm not a big fan of Fel-pro gaskets. I had 4 different sets that the fire ring was either to big or too small and the head bolt holes were always a little off. I had damn good luck out of Victor Reinz head gaskets with the graphite face on both sides on my 383 stroker with aluminum heads. One word of advice is to get your heads milled. If they were torqued down an went threw heat cycles I wouldn't be surprised if they arent a couple thousands off now.

 

[nosnerd]

If you are building a pump gas engine, the standard Felpro perf. gaskets will be more than enough. A high compression engine might need a head gasket with a fire ring. The next level would be a power adder, then you get into the higher priced gaskets. An aluminum head with a fire-ring gasket will eventually emboss a ring into the head, requiring the heads to be shaved on the next rebuild.

On the wheel bearings I like to go with the name brand.

look into MR Gasket their full sets are pretty damn affordable. (JEGS OR SUMMIT).my old sbc staple kit was a Fed Mogul 260-1000 (which is felpro) engine rebuilder special.,,when i owned my speedshop back in the 90s..we sold a **** ton of these...

nothing special at that power level,but umho..look into the once piece oil pan gasket and a decent intake gasket like a FP1205 or MR G 5820 with the bead around the port opening...throw out the china wall gaskets and use a bead of RTV or even better yet,,,permatex RIGHT $$tuff

 

[nosnerd]

cleveite p serries suffice for a street motor

cb663 rods and ms909 for mains....decent price..if using an aftermarket crank with a larger .125 fillet as opposed to the OE spec .092..use the H series clevite rod bearings..tho more $$$$

 

[nosnerd]

the brinnelling is caused by the fire ring..felpro offers a head gasket with a diff fire ring that does not cause this...look into it..they also offer a variety of bore sizes/thicknesses..there is much more now than the standard 1003 and 1004 head gasket...many choices including with or without steam holes for 400 based sbc..

they are in the 1000 series..like a 1044 or a 1034 or a 1094.or something ICR....

i used to sell nearly 20k of felpro a year...great line


i run COMETIC MLS gaskets on my nitrous bbc 14 to 1 522..but they are big $$....

 

[vette-kid]

...I love this forum! Thanks for all of the replies, this is more info on the subject than I expected.

The heads are brand new, and the block is a freshly machined 350 4 bolt main. So the surfaces "SHOULD" be true. This is what im leaning towards right now, with the copper wire rings. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-1010/ These will put me right at 10.9cr.




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[vette-kid]

Thanks for the advice! I have been looking into the one piece oil pan gasket for sure. Now I just need to find a stinking oil pan that wont drag on the pavement (7in stroker clearanced oil pans seem to be tough to find for a two piece rear main and pass side dipstick)! This project is going to nickel and dime me to death, but Im loving it!

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[nosnerd]

MILODON for the pan

 

[vette-kid]

MILODON for the pan

I would love to, but I cant find one that works for me, Id like to keep it to 7" depth (7.5 max, I have seen an 8" and it just sits way too low for my comfort!), dipstick is Pass side, must be stroker clearances (3.75"). If you know of one that works, please share, i havnt had luck finding it.

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[nosnerd]

oops my bad..i missed on the depth thing....yeah-most all aftermarket pans sbc- are at 8.25 inches....


MOROSO 20173 but it isnt anything special as far as options....

 

[vette-kid]

oops my bad..i missed on the depth thing....yeah-most all aftermarket pans sbc- are at 8.25 inches....


MOROSO 20173 but it isnt anything special as far as options....

Thats not too bad actually...I need the RH dipstick option, but they do have one. Moroso sells a windage tray kit that should drop in without any problem as well. A crank scraper would be nice, but probably not absolutely necessary for my application. With the windage kit that would still be under $250, so not too bad for a good quality pan. Thanks!

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[J Persons]

Canton pan, right side dip stick and only 7" deep. It will cost you though.
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/product/15-240M/15-240M----SBC-CORVETTE-RR-PAN-RH-DIPSTICK/

Here's another option, you may have to talk to them to find out if the dip stick is in the correct position, but the price is good.
http://www.champpans.com/index.cfm?event=productdetail&id=73

 

[BillK]

VK,
I did not read all of the replies so sorry if this is a rerun. The first thing is . . which aluminum heads are you using ?? Most of the aftermarket heads will come with instructions that tell you which head gasket that they prefer. Those would be my first choice.

That being said, there are plenty of aluminum head small blocks running around with stock gaskets on them. All of the 80's Aluminum head 350's in the Vettes used the same gasket as a truck engine. Worked fine, lasted a long time.

If you have the extra money to spend, MLS is the way to go BUT like someone else said, you absolutely have to have the proper finish on both the head and the block for them to seal properly. Sadly, there are still plenty of machine shops using ancient equipment that just will not give the proper finish for an MLS gasket. The next step down from MLS would be one of FelPro's performance gaskets. I think a 1003 would be the one you need.

Also, dont skimp on the intake gasket. Get the Fel-Pro or Mr Gasket ones that have the printed silcon seal around all of the ports.

Most important of all . . . make sure you have the correct torque specs for the heads and the fasteners you are using. This is probably more important than getting the right gasket.

Your machine shop should be able to steer you in the right direction and get you the gaskets. I can pretty much sell FelPro and Cometic for the same price as Summit etc.

If you have any other questions, ask away