Engine rebuilding on a budget - got some ??s

[kf4zht]

I picked up a chevy 350 for $100 to throw in the jeep. It ran when I got it, needed a good cleanup though. The project then got moved and sat outside for about 6 months. Started working on getting it back together a couple weeks ago.

Plan was to clean/paint and replace the obvious gaskets, cooling system, starter, alternator and PS pump. I decided to also replace the valve stem seals also. After pulling the heads it looks like some water got in the cylinders.

I don't want to put a ton of money in this engine.

I see a couple options:
1. Clean up the cylinders with a brush. Easiest, but not really the best way
2. Pull the pistons and use a flex hone to clean up the bores

What I don't know about option 2:
Do I need to replace the rings if I do this?
What about the bearings?

Also can I pull the cam to check it for rust, put it back in with the same lifters without an issue?

 

[MechanicNamedJohn]

I would re-ring and new bearings, very inexpensive; good insurance. Do NOT use a flex hone to cross-hatch the walls, use a bottle brush "dingle berry." If you get the block tanked you can ask how much more to re'cross-hatch the walls "bottle brushes are around $100." If you decide to hot tank the block, cam bearings will need to be replaced. How much are you willing to invest into this rebuild, that would really help narrow down what you can do?

 

[rsanter]

better check the bore for ring ridge
depending on how much you have the re-ring may not work so well

bob

 

[wafrederick]

Also have the heads checked for cracks including the block,magnafluxed and any machine shop can do this.You might be better off buy a crate engine which comes with a warranty,Edelbrock and GM Performance parts are two choices.If you go with this route,much easier to do.You can put a set of Vortec heads on an older SBC which the horspower gain is 50 HP,you need to get the special intake manifold needed which GM does sell.

 

[swaterbenny]

wafrederick
Re: Engine rebuilding on a budget - got some ??s
Also have the heads checked for cracks including the block,magnafluxed and any machine shop can do this.You might be better off buy a crate engine which comes with a warranty,Edelbrock and GM Performance parts are two choices.If you go with this route,much easier to do.You can put a set of Vortec heads on an older SBC which the horspower gain is 50 HP,you need to get the special intake manifold needed which GM does sell.

I don't know if that is really a budget rebuild?

 

[kf4zht]

I want to spend as little as possible. I am not buying new heads, a new intake or any of that junk. I just need the engine to run decent. If this involves taking the block to a machine shop it is getting junked. The engine ran fine before, it was just out of tune.

It has a slight ring ridge, haven't measured it yet.

These are the flex hones I was looking at http://www.flex-hone.com/ but it sounds like your saying not to use it, but also to use it?? They run about $50 on amazon.

The real question here is can I pull the crank and pistons, clean the bores and put everything back as is (obviously check for damage)

 

[e-tek]

No reason NOT to use a flex hone to cross hatch the walls IMO....I did a basic rebuild on many engines and they have all run beautifully. I just did a 318 in my chally and it runs awesome.
Recipe for least expensive rebuild you can do:
After removing the heads, if there's any ridge (you can feel it with your fingernail or more), then rent or borrow a ridge reamer ($10/4hours) to cut the ridge out. Then remove pistons and everything else. Wire brush the heads. Cross hatch the cylinders with whatever tool you can find... Clean the block and all it's orifices with plenty of degreasing solvent, then plain old soap and water - use wire brushes, paint gun brushes, pipe cleaners (a gun cleaning kit works awesome!), then spray it down with WD40 immediatley after and bag it until you are ready to put it together. This will save your cam bearings, but definitely replace all other bearings and rings. Use lots of assembly lube on the new bearings and remember to load the oil pressure before starting it!

 

[Jared]

I would just lap the valves put in new valve seals, slap it together and run it.

 

[MechanicNamedJohn]

I ment don't use one of these; I always called them flex hones.

 

[Red Green]

Like others have said you will need to remove the ridge before you can remove the pistons.

Can you reuse the rings and bearings? Yes. Is it a good idea probably not. If you go that route keep the parts in the order so that you can put them in the same order as you took them out. If you see any copper colored material then you are going to need new bearings and the crank turned. For what you are doing I wouldn't remove the rings from the pistons just make sure they are all free.

Cam and Lifters. Yes I reuse lifters all the time. Make sure to keep them in the same order to make sure each lifter is on the same lobe.

I use a bead hone the one with lots of little balls. Stay away from the type with the 3 stones. Unless you are exprienced at using one.

I know guys that would take a single rod and piston and install it in the motor and take it racing the next day. Along with the used bearings and rings.

The above statment is used at your own risk. I take no responsability for what happens your motor.

 

[babzog]

I use a bead hone the one with lots of little balls. Stay away from the type with the 3 stones. Unless you are exprienced at using one.

Why do you suggest not using the three stone hone?

 

[Red Green]

Why do you suggest not using the three stone hone?

Its very easy to run it too deep into the cylinder. On the SBC you can hit the part of the block where main bearing is. The tool can bend.

The one with little balls is more forgiving of making a mistake or running it in too deep.

 

[uhcrandy]

Tell me about the "ring ridge". Does it feel like a Ridge i.e. catch your fingernail? (a definate ridge) Or is it a more of a "bump"? I have a FE 390 that I am planning to re-ring, re-main bearing.
Should I also do rod/piston bearings? I dont plan on having the block tanked, or replace the cam bearings.
Has anyone used the COMP "Thumper" cams?
I am trying to do this as cheap as possible, but do not want to rebuild soon because I was too cheap to spend a little more for wise planning now. HELP.
Also I did not mean to hi-jack this thread, I just saw someone in the same place I am. Thanks

 

[JamieK]

Since this sounds like a junkyard engine getting a junkyard rebuild: what about just cleaning up the rust with a scotch-brite pad and leaving as is? As long as the cylinder isn't pitted, it should be okay. Worst case would be maybe a tiny loss of compression or some oil burning. Probably not enough to hurt anything, or to even notice.

Another thing you should do is to at least pull all the bearing caps and check the condition of the bearings.

 

[383 240z]

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[APEowner]

They cylinders wear both out of round and tapered. Wear above the point that the top ring stops is negligible (at least it should be. If it's not then you really need to bore the cylinders) hence the ridge. Obviously the correct repair for the rust damage is to bore the cylinders and install new pistons and rings. The OP is looking for compromise solutions. The trick is to clean up the cylinder so that the rings seal without spending a ton of money or getting crud in the rest of the engine that will shorten it's life.

Any solution that doesn't involve pulling the pistons runs the very great risk of leaving abrasives in between the piston and the bore which will quickly scuff the bore and result in burning oil and excessive blow by. I have successfully flipped motors upside-down on the engine stand so junk didn't end up in the cylinder and cleaned up lightly rusted bores with Scotchbright and a wd40/Dextron II mix with some success.

If you decide to pull the pistons then you need to think about the ridge at the top of the bore. If it's mild then you don't need to cut the ridge before pulling the pistons. The reason for removing the ridge is to prevent damage to the piston ring lands as you remove the pistons. If the ridge is bad enough that you are going to damage the lands when you pull the pistons then there's a pretty good chance that the rings are never going to seal well anyway so it might be worth pulling them and if you ****** the pistons then write off the whole motor.

You're never going to get a technically correct hone pattern with any kind of drill mounted hone. We've already established that we're looking for a compromise solution and while you won't get a low leak-down rate and 100k miles of zero oil consumption with a hand honed cylinder you should be able to get something that'll work. What you really want to do here is clean up the rust and knock off any surface glaze. To do that you need a hone that will follow the existing out of round/tapered bore. A 3 stone flex hone will follow the out of round but will not touch the low spots of the tapered bore. A ball type hone will nicely put a new (although again not technically correct) pattern on all of the surfaces of the bore.

There's no need to replace bearings if they look good. I pull them regularly on street/strip motors for inspection and stick them back in if they're good. I would pull a couple of bearings to check them before I did anything just to make sure I wasn't wasting my time.

If the rust is really light I'd clean it up with the pistons in place (with the engine upside-down) and throw it back together. If more effort is needed I'd pull the pistons and if they survive the removal and look OK then I'd hit the bores with the ball hone and put it back together.

The big thing is to avoid getting crud in the rest of the motor and causing more damage.

 

[wafrederick]

Have seen it,with a 1988 to 1995 350 chevys.Most machines shop charge about $1,500.00 to rebuild and a Jasper reman is $1,200.00 with a three year warranty.Most remans and crate engines are cheaper than rebuilding these days.

 

[I can fix anything]

Have seen it,with a 1988 to 1995 350 chevys.Most machines shop charge about $1,500.00 to rebuild and a Jasper reman is $1,200.00 with a three year warranty.Most remans and crate engines are cheaper than rebuilding these days.

Agreed a budget rebuild = a piece of **** that won't last.

 

[Ram]

If you don't the budget to do it right from the start, then keep it to a budget replacement. Either a doner that runs or a Jasper reman. Or toss out the budget and build the hot rod engine that you always wanted.

 

[wafrederick]

Never reuse main and rod bearings,toss them and get replacements instead.Done this to a 4.7 out of a Jeep,most of the bearings looked good and they were tossed,thrown away.Reusing old bearings is asking for trouble.This vehicle is from another used car dealer and doesn not need his good reputation ruined.

 

[pop pop]

kf, looks like you got lots of opinions here ;-). I'd give you another except that I haven't seen the engine and without that, no one here knows! All I can tell you is that if you check the front two cyls. for a ridge (they will be the worst), and it is less than 0.010" (a fingernail?), you can likely get by cheaply and make it run - at least as far as the cylinders/pistons. If not, punt. Bearings, check by pulling a couple of rear main caps and rod caps. If the bearings show wear (bronze color and/or groves) then you're up the creek on the lubrication side. Looks OK, put a new oil pump and hope for the best. On the heads, brush em up and install new seals under the springs. The cam and lifters, they are shot for sure, but put them in and it will still run. SB Chevy's eat cams. Install a new front and rear seal on the crank plus other gaskets. Put all parts back where they came out. Any item here fails the checking, spend more and go the machine shop route. Only thing to make it cheap is good luck on finding parts not worn out when you examine them. This will be as cheap as it can be done. It may breathe a little heavy and use some oil, but it will run.

 

[srmofo]

Have seen it,with a 1988 to 1995 350 chevys.Most machines shop charge about $1,500.00 to rebuild and a Jasper reman is $1,200.00 with a three year warranty.Most remans and crate engines are cheaper than rebuilding these days.

x2. Ill never rebuild another stock 350 again

 

[knickick]

I picked up a chevy 350 for $100 to throw in the jeep. It ran when I got it, needed a good cleanup though. The project then got moved and sat outside for about 6 months. Started working on getting it back together a couple weeks ago.

Plan was to clean/paint and replace the obvious gaskets, cooling system, starter, alternator and PS pump. I decided to also replace the valve stem seals also. After pulling the rebuilt engines heads it looks like some water got in the cylinders.

I don't want to put a ton of money in this engine.

I see a couple options:
1. Clean up the cylinders with a brush. Easiest, but not really the best way
2. Pull the pistons and use a flex hone to clean up the bores

What I don't know about option 2:
Do I need to replace the rings if I do this?
What about the bearings?

Also can I pull the cam to check it for rust, put it back in with the same lifters without an issue?

I think you should've use the 1st option. That's the only way that you can do so that you will not lend much money on your engine.

 

[Major Ramifications]

It seems to me that if low budget is what this project is all about, why oh why did you let a good engine sit outside for 6 months?