Engineer says I need a ‘Certified’ welder

[bluedog225]

I’m building a deck out of galvanzed off the second floor of my cabin. It’s 12’ off the ground and need to be done right.

6”x6”x0.25 posts, a big W10x49 wide beam on top then W6x9 joists on 2’ centers with expanded metal decking. I’ve just about got all the materials gathered.

The wise old engineer said I need a certified welder, not just some guy with a welder on his truck. He didn’t seem to have the details on what type of certification was required. In fairness, he doesn’t deal with the welders; he deals with the engineering.

I’m out in rural Texas. Does anyone know exactly am I looking for in terms of qualifications and how I will know the are properly trained?

Thanks

 

[strutaeng]

AWS-certified welder

American Welding Society

 

[readhead]

D1.1 qualification for structural welding. There are a lot of other factors involved if it is going to be inspected.

 

[blazemaster83]

"I don't know what kind of cert it needs, but it needs one" ~engineer

 

[readhead]

If it isn’t being inspected a good rig welder with pipe qualifications can get it done. There should be plenty of those guys in Texas. Make sure you tell them it’s galvanized. You will probably get a lot of no thanks. When I had to do galvanized fab it was frowned on to field weld. We would fab everything for bolt up installation and then send it out to be hot dipped.

 

[bwringer]

... Make sure you tell them it’s galvanized. You will probably get a lot of no thanks. ...

Yeah, the galvanizing is a big problem here. "Hey, come turn your brain into moldy cheese!" isn't going to get you a lot of takers, at least not any you want.

Or it'll require very expensive PPE and extremely careful prep to remove every speck of the galvanizing, and THEN you're left with large areas of the structure not covered by zinc and immediately starting to rust.

 

[Boogerman]

"I don't know what kind of cert it needs, but it needs one" ~engineer

In all fairness, in the US, there's one certifying organization, and the basic cert is all that is needed to illustrate proficiency for most welding; the other certs are add-ons to the basic cert. So, and engineer just specifies "welder to be AWS certified", and ask for a current certification as part of the project submittals. It's as simple as that.

The certification is both simple and practical; it consists of passing a written test prior to taking the demonstration of skill; and actually going to a test site and performing welding to illustrate you have the skill required.

Here's a link to the AWS certification site, which explains certification process.

Certified Welder Program - Pinnacle of Welding Proficiency

Explore the Certified Welder Program, representing the pinnacle of welding proficiency. Learn about its significance, requirements, and how it elevates welding professionals

www.aws.org

 

[bluedog225]

Well shoot.

Maybe I ask him if we can bolt it.

 

[PoorUB]

Weld galvanized? Well it is **** to weld, and once you weld it the heat burns away the galvanize, so you need to paint it or some othe coating you can do on site. Plus the little thing about rotting you brain while welding.

Welding up sections and bolts makes more sense to me, plus it all can be shop welded, sent out the be galvanized, then assembled.

 

[manwithtools]

Also be aware of the tank size local galvanizers might have. That can be a limiting factor in the size (length) of the structural pieces. Also, you need vent holes in the weldment. So for instance, the 6 x 6 tubes if the have end caps welded to them will need a couple of 1/2" holes for venting.

 

[Innovate1]

Well shoot.

Maybe I ask him if we can bolt it.

Seems like a good plan if it's acceptable.

 

[ZRX61]

In all fairness, in the US, there's one certifying organization, and the basic cert is all that is needed to illustrate proficiency for most welding; the other certs are add-ons to the basic cert. So, and engineer just specifies "welder to be AWS certified", and ask for a current certification as part of the project submittals. It's as simple as that.

The certification is both simple and practical; it consists of passing a written test prior to taking the demonstration of skill; and actually going to a test site and performing welding to illustrate you have the skill required.

Here's a link to the AWS certification site, which explains certification process.

Certified Welder Program - Pinnacle of Welding Proficiency

Explore the Certified Welder Program, representing the pinnacle of welding proficiency. Learn about its significance, requirements, and how it elevates welding professionals

www.aws.org

The hard part of the test is knowing where to look in he book for the relevant info/code/specs. My local college has a class just on learning the book.
Here's my copy with tabs to mark the bits we need to find in a hurry during tests:

 

[bluedog225]

No inspection. Though pretty simple, this thing is going to be 25’x10’. Pretty sure it needs to be erected on site. (We are lowering the barn door.)

 

[readhead]

Just curious about the expanded metal choice.

 

[ZRX61]

Just curious about the expanded metal choice.

Maybe so you can light a bonfire under the deck & cook an entire cow?

 

[readhead]

Might have a little taste of zinc.

 

[GaryM909]

Around here everything above 2’ requires a permit unless you don’t get caught. Then if you do get caught you need to make it right.$$. Also structural rig welders are usually between $10-30/ hour less than the pipe welders but once you mention galvanized that opens another can of worms

 

[bluedog225]

There have been a couple of big wildfires recently. 3000 homes lost in one. I lost 8 acres.

Wooden decks built up to houses apparently provided a big avenue of ingress for the fires. Even masonry structures were lost because of their back patio decks.

I’m going for fire resistant. Can put something more comfortable down later. Maybe aluminum planks if I find a deal.

 

[My Old Tools]

You're in Texas. Most of the welders trained in the oil field. You aren't going to be inspected by anybody, you just need to safe. Any metal building erector, any small welding service, can do this job just fine.

 

[John in OH]

You don't mention whether or not your construction must be approved and inspected by your local building code jurisdiction. If you do need local inspection/approval, (and if the inspector knows what he's doing) then your design drawings from the engineer will need to be stamped with the engineer's PE stamp and the welder will have to provide you copies of his D1.1 certification.

Having spent my entire career in the power generation industry (where we used the ASME boiler, pressure vessel, and power piping codes, not applicable to your project) I'm rather appalled that your "engineer" has no idea what specific welding certification is required. Gives me pause regarding his actual knowledge.

Welding galvanized steel properly and safely creates a sh-t storm of problems ... direct welding over the galvanized coating generates toxic fumes and weakens the weld ... solution is to grind off the zinc before welding but that then creates toxic grinding dust. Then you end up with an un-galvanized welded joint that will rust if not perpetually painted.

Best solution is to get the engineer to design your structure with bolted connections and forget all the field welding. All components can then be shop-fabricated before galvanizing and then assembled in field with galvanized fasteners.

 

[PCustoms]

8

Having spent my entire career in the power generation industry (where we used the ASME boiler, pressure vessel, and power piping codes, not applicable to your project) I'm rather appalled that your "engineer" has no idea what specific welding certification is required. Gives me pause regarding his actual knowledge.

Worth quoting!

 

[ZRX61]

Hang on, who does "the wise old engineer" work for?

 

[bluedog225]

He’s an old civil engineer. It was a brief phone conversation. I imagine if I pressed him, he would give me more detail.

Thanks all. Lots to think about.

 

[NUTTSGT]

He’s an old civil engineer. It was a brief phone conversation. I imagine if I pressed him, he would give me more detail.

Thanks all. Lots to think about.

So you're just asking him for advice and not paying him for his services ?

 

[BrandonV]

So you're just asking him for advice and not paying him for his services ?

Probably why he wasn't super specific. I get sketched when people ask for "advice" off the cuff. PE liability is a real thing.

 

[welder4956]

Well shoot.

Maybe I ask him if we can bolt it.

Bolting is the best way to go if you plan to use galvanized steel. Have your engineer draw it up for shop fabrication, have a shop do all the cutting and any welding of raw steel before galvanizing, send the finished pieces out to be hot dip galvanized, then assemble everything on site using A325 galvanized bolts. Make sure the fabricator drills the bolt holes large enough to allow the use of galvanized bolts and marks each piece for easy assembly. If you try to build it on site using galvanized steel, you will need to grind off the galvanizing at each weld location, then touch up with cold galvanizing compound which will not be as durable as the hot dip galvanizing.

 

[bluedog225]

So you're just asking him for advice and not paying him for his services ?

I’ve paid him quite a bit over the course of this project. The comment re the welder was a brief call about the next phase of getting the deck done. [edited]

 

[MikeC55]

Before I knew any better, I tried to do a little wending of galvanized. The green smoke made me sick... Hope I didn't kill too many brain cells...

 

[oldmachinenut]

Before I knew any better, I tried to do a little wending of galvanized. The green smoke made me sick... Hope I didn't kill too many brain cells...

Don’t forget the “zinc chills”

 

[Walkers]

Well, I am a welder, and I have been told that I am certifiable! Let me know when you want me to put it up!

 

[Professor Fate]

"I don't know what kind of cert it needs, but it needs one" ~engineer

Said no Engineer, ever.

 

[bb29510]

a certifide welder, is a welder that has papers proven he can weld, every six months, they have to weld that a cwi looks at, 99% of professional welders have these papers.. it doesnt mean a test by aws, just proof he can weld. just get someone that welds for a living under a company, like joes welding, they going have papers

its can't be, oh i have awelder in my shop diyer

 

[boom_bap]

If it isn’t being inspected a good rig welder with pipe qualifications can get it done.

Pipe welders only know how to weld in circles

Joking of course..

I would add there is some missing information. D1.1 is just a structural code. You want someone who's D1.1 4G certified. Welders need to re-certify yearly, so make sure they're current. 4G just grove weld in the vertical position. That qualifies you for flat (1), horizontal (2) and overhead (4) and vertical (3).

Types of Welding Positions, 1G, 2G, 3G, 4G, 5G, 6G/6GR Joint Types

Know all types of welding positions and joint types. It reveals four welding positions and joint types such as 1G, 2G, 3G, 4G, 5G and 6G/6GR.

www.weldinginfo.org

In short +1 to bb29510s comment, you want someone under a company for insurance reasons, not a rig welder side job.

 

[Fixr]

You're in Texas. Most of the welders trained in the oil field. You aren't going to be inspected by anybody, you just need to safe. Any metal building erector, any small welding service, can do this job just fine.

Yeah. I heard that kind of thing a lot when I lived in Texas. Sometimes it even worked out. Well, back in the 80s anyway. Sometimes.

 

[freebirdwelds]

I charge double and a half my rate for hazardous materials.
It's ok that it's galvanized that can be ground off and then resprayed where welded.

 

[Chaznsc]

He’s an old civil engineer. It was a brief phone conversation. I imagine if I pressed him, he would give me more detail.

Thanks all. Lots to think about.

You need a structural engineer IMO. Civil bumps against structural and all engineers know a little about all engineering principles, but they shouldn’t be practicing structural.

I‘ll be damned if I would weld galvanized steel.

 

[rancherbill]

I’m building a deck out of galvanzed off the second floor of my cabin. It’s 12’ off the ground and need to be done right.....I’ve just about got all the materials gathered.

You put the cart before the horse - it's the GJ way

For all the reasons that have been mentioned it is a bad idea. It is time to look for a Plan B and sell your accumulated materials.

 

[LopezBart]

The roof over our deck is supported by fabricated steel posts which bolt in place. The parts were fabricated (some cutting and welding) from steel off-site, and taken to Seattle for galvanizing as there's a place there with a big tank. Pretty standard for anything to do with boats, docks, etc. A picture before we moved in:

 

[Bert_]

Galvanized is no big deal as long as you have air movement. You don't want to weld it inside a closed up building but outside is done every day with no special steps

 

[bluedog225]

You put the cart before the horse - it's the GJ way

For all the reasons that have been mentioned it is a bad idea. It is time to look for a Plan B and sell your accumulated materials.

Not a chance. I’m thinking chunky galvanized plates and 1/2” blind bolts. We’re doing this one way or another.