Engineer stamped drawings for pole barn...

[SheThinksImCrazy]

I live in the Niagara Region/Southern Ontario Canada and zoned residential/agricultural.

I'd like to build a 30'x30' storage building. I went to the town hall to get a building permit, with a copy of the 8312 pole frame plans from Canada Plan Service <a href="http://www.cps.gov.on.ca/english/plans/E8000/8312/8312P.pdf">Pole Frame Machinery Storage Plans 8312</a>. The Chief Building Official says I need engineer stamped drawings and recommends someone. The individual, he recommended, will provide me with stamped drawings for $1600.

To make a long story short, does anyone know of someone who can review the drawings and stamp them or provide me with new engineer stamped drawings for 30' x 30' pole barn??? At a reasonable cost...

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[readhead]

Why do you think $1,600 isn't reasonable? The engineer will have to do the reactions on the design and might have to do a few detail drawings.

 

[rice rocket]

Engineer also carries a fair bit of liability as well.

 

[2nrguy]

So he reccomends you to someone he knows that will give him a kickback to make sure he takes 5min to look over your and stamps them for $1600??

 

[info2x]

I think he's upset because Canada Plan Service seems to be a government agency and his local town won't accept their plans. That being said you would think CPS could stamp their own drawings.

I agree with rice though an engineers stamp carries a lot of liability on them if something goes wrong.

 

[Stuart in MN]

$1600 probably equates to about two days' work. Depending on the complexity of the plans and what calculations are required that doesn't seem out of line.

However, I would first contact the source of the plans and ask if they can provide stamped plans that will meet your local building official's requirements.

 

[LB-1911]

$1600 probably equates to about two days' work. Depending on the complexity of the plans and what calculations are required that doesn't seem out of line.

However, I would first contact the source of the plans and ask if they can provide stamped plans that will meet your local building official's requirements.

Doesn't look promising.

The plans and leaflets on this site were designed to meet the building code standards in effect at the time of document creation.

The Ontario Ministry of Agriculture and Food does not assume any liability for any loss caused by the use of any information contained in the documents and does not in any way warrant or guarantee that it meets the user's needs, local climatic loads or applicable building regulations.

The user is responsible for ensuring that all necessary requirements are met.


http://www.cps.gov.on.ca/english/planmenu.htm

 

[stroked89coupe]

I'm glad my building did not require a stamp. I can understand your frustration. We literally stretched our 26x24 with a slab on leagl 8.5 paper and handed it to the inspector on site and carried that down to get a permit. Sounds like a racket.

 

[JCQuick]

my engineered stamped plans cost me $450.00 and they gave me 3 signed and 3 not signed. the first inspector at the building department had some complaints so they redid some of the wording and didn't charge me a dime

 

[rburke65]

Sounds like a "kick back" game to me. One would think that there have been enough pole barns built that they would not have to keep "reinventing the wheel"! Just my opinion.....

 

[warren57]

If you are hiring a metal building company to erect their building, you will find no one will engineer anything to do with their building. No independent will stamp a drawing on someone else's design and no building manufacturer/ erector will modify their building to meet the requirements of an independent engineer.
The building supplier/erector has engineers on staff and already have their building engineered and can provide a stamped drawing. The only variable is foundation (pole in ground design) and they will do the research and provide the correct design. Basically how deep, ect. For your given area.
So basically if you are building your own building, an independent engineer can do everything you need, if you are buying a building make them provide engineering.
As for $1600..... A bargain. There is a load of engineering needed for all your needs!!!!

 

[tdkkart]

Why do you think $1,600 isn't reasonable? The engineer will have to do the reactions on the design and might have to do a few detail drawings.

Because it's a F'in pole building!!! It's not a G'damn hospital.
6x6 posts, pre-fab trusses, a stack of 2x4s, a stack of 2x6's, and some steel.
You go to Menards, buy the package and they give you the plans to put it together with, same plans that have been used on THOUSANDS of building before yours.

Jeebus Christ, you can't throw a cat in this country without hitting a pole building, if you've got a question, go look at the one down the street and see how it was done.

Plain and simple, pretty much any retard that knows which end of a hammer to hold on to can put together a passable pole building.
If you really and truly need help from the local building department you've got no business building it.

Pisses me off, because I've been in literally hundreds of pole buildings in my lifetime, damn near every one of them is built the same, UNTIL you get in one that some jackwagon county inspector with a hard-on about something gets hold of and costs the owners 5x what they should have had to spend.

Example, one of my former neighbors built a 30' wide pole building. The damn things had trusses in it big enough for a 60'+ building. Building department had it spec'd for a snow load like Iowa has never seen before.
I've yet to see another building with that size trusses in it, including the 30' one on my lot, in the same county.
When the building crew came to put it up they said, "WHO the F^&K spec'd these trusses?? JESUS, you're not parking trucks on the roof......"

A gal I know built what was basically 1/2 a pole building for horses. Stupid *** inspector made her do **** that nobody had ever heard of before, just because he could. It was a crime, but what was she gonna do, wasn't gonna get built without his approval.

I'm done now..........

 

[hoho98925]

When I was building my house, in the process of building I added a deck off the upper story that wasn't included on the plans. In order to get the C of O I had to have an engineer "design" the deck. The deck is 8'x24' the building dept. handed me a card for a local engineer that they recommended. I sketched a accurate drawing of the deck I built and dropped it of at the engineers office. It cost me 1800.00 and the ************ didn't have me change a thing on the deck just stamped my drawings. It was a complete rip off.

Flash forward to my shop build. Same engineer quoted me 8900.00 to engineer my building. I asked him if he was building it for me for that price! He got a quick FU, and I placed an ad on craigslist. Within a week I had a Professional Structural Engineer respond to my ad. He came to my house did a site visit, and charged me 1100.00 done, complete and did a complete set of plans, actually gave me 4 copies plus the calcs. This was in 2010. As I didn't start building till 2014 and the codes changed in my county (they upped my snow loads) he charged me 300.00 to re-engineer the building, again gave me new prints and calc books.

I couldn't be happier with his services.
Shop around, ask around, you'll find some one who is reasonable in there pricing.
Best of luck!!!

 

[Tweeker]

Because it's a F'in pole building!!! It's not a G'damn hospital.
6x6 posts, pre-fab trusses, a stack of 2x4s, a stack of 2x6's, and some steel.
You go to Menards, buy the package and they give you the plans to put it together with, same plans that have been used on THOUSANDS of building before yours.

Jeebus Christ, you can't throw a cat in this country without hitting a pole building, if you've got a question, go look at the one down the street and see how it was done.

Plain and simple, pretty much any retard that knows which end of a hammer to hold on to can put together a passable pole building.
If you really and truly need help from the local building department you've got no business building it.

Pisses me off, because I've been in literally hundreds of pole buildings in my lifetime, damn near every one of them is built the same, UNTIL you get in one that some jackwagon county inspector with a hard-on about something gets hold of and costs the owners 5x what they should have had to spend.

Example, one of my former neighbors built a 30' wide pole building. The damn things had trusses in it big enough for a 60'+ building. Building department had it spec'd for a snow load like Iowa has never seen before.
I've yet to see another building with that size trusses in it, including the 30' one on my lot, in the same county.
When the building crew came to put it up they said, "WHO the F^&K spec'd these trusses?? JESUS, you're not parking trucks on the roof......"

A gal I know built what was basically 1/2 a pole building for horses. Stupid *** inspector made her do **** that nobody had ever heard of before, just because he could. It was a crime, but what was she gonna do, wasn't gonna get built without his approval.

I'm done now..........

Totally agree brother!

 

[readhead]

Here we go. Pop some corn.

 

[bop_pa]

I bought online plans to build my house for like $600 and that was like for 5 full sets. $1600 seems high for something you could pretty much draw on your own. Just saying.

 

[Kev442]

What really hurts is that I used the Canadian ag sheets to build the trusses for my pole building. My inspector asked what on center I was using (24") and made sure they specified glued gussets. He asked that I screw and nail the gussets from both sides too. Done. His overkill request for Lake Michigan winters cost me an extra $40.

 

[Rusty Bumper]

You dont have to use the guy he "recommends". Use someone else. Who? I dont know. How about Midwest MFG. at Menards? I had my plans drawn up for $100.
Try the yellow pages. Or maybe builders in your area.
Good Luck. I feel for you.

 

[Blk88GT]

My engineer stamp for my 40x50 stick build was $350. Plans were $300.

Food for thought.

 

[stroked89coupe]

My engineer stamp for my 40x50 stick build was $350. Plans were $300.

Food for thought.

Are you a member on corral forum?

 

[Highbeam]

A regulator should NEVER recommend an engineer or builder. Totally crooked.

I am a professional civil engineer with a stamp in my state but I hired out the job for liability reasons. Not just for me but the next owner of my home so he won't come and sue me if it falls down.

 

[rancherbill]

I sympathize with you. The plans clearly state that they comply with National Building Code, however there are always provincial codes.

Have you priced factory built trusses? Your lumber cost and the engineering fee will probably be the same as factory trusses.

 

[Trey T]

@ $1600 the cost for 30'x30' is pretty high. If the engineer's labor rate is $120/hr, he's wokring about a day and a half. If he's using 1/2 of the time to brush up on his CAD skill to redraw it, go to the next guy. Even if he redraw is on CAD, he should charge you be the level of effort as a CAD technician, which is about $50/hr.

If this is his specialty, it shouldn't take him any more than 1/2 day to review it, analyze it, and stamp it.

 

[larry_g]

After reading some of these 'problem' threads before building my shop I did the following.

1. bought a kit from a local yard.
2. insisted that they provide the building permit with the kit. This put the onus on them to get engineering stamps that satisfied MY county. It cost me an extra $500 for them to provide the permit, which by default includes stamped drawings.

Have you considered getting your plans from some place that will provide stamped drawings. I would think someone there would have some stock plans that have passed the building inspectors and have the proper engineering stamps.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Blk88GT]

Are you a member on corral forum?

Yes sir, and countless others!

 

[tlmartin84]

A regulator should NEVER recommend an engineer or builder. Totally crooked.

I am a professional civil engineer with a stamp in my state but I hired out the job for liability reasons. Not just for me but the next owner of my home so he won't come and sue me if it falls down.

I have no issues with stamping my drawings for my own place. Everything is designed to meet code.

As an engineer and a "Free American" I do have a problem with the system as a whole. Public structures should be regulated, if you buy in a subdivision with an HOA you are agreeing to the terms up front.

What I disagree with is monitoring private buildings and property. You should have the right to do as you wish it as long as it is not affecting someone else.

If you build an unsafe dump, it is your risk, if you can't get insurance, your risk, if it falls down and money down the drain, your risk. If the next guy knows nothing about construction and does not hire an inspector, it is his problem (Either look it over, have it looked over, and if it is trash walk away). At some point and time society has to start accepting there mistakes and quit trying to pass the buck.

It all boils down to money and the county making it.........

So many little guys come in and get stuck paying the fees, then a multimillionaire comes in and does what he wants because he knows the county can't fight him.

I think we have allowed this stuff to become communistic.

 

[tlmartin84]

And............ back to the issue at hand, as an engineer a pole barn should take no more than 4 hours to review and analyze, trusses should come from an engineer anyhow.....

So all you are looking at are the purlins, posts, and headers.

On top of that if it is a structural guy, most can look at it and know what works and doesn't for your area without calculations at all.

 

[210Hardtop]

I used an Engineer in Fenwick Ontario, I think he charged me $800.00. 2-3 years ago.
42' x 192' building with footings.
I gave him a plan of exactly what I wanted, overhead door sizes and locations etc.
He provided the drawing and stamp.
Shoalts Engineering 905 892 2110 or 905 892 2133

 

[LX-Markham]

So all you are looking at are the purlins, posts, and headers.

...and footings.

On a pre-engineered building this is mainly what the building department is looking for. And this is where most of the risk for the engineer lies. It is highly unlikely that the OP has provided a soil report or investigation with the permit application.

I wouldn't touch the job for under a grand. Not worth the risk.

 

[rancherbill]

If you build an unsafe dump, it is your risk, if you can't get insurance, your risk, if it falls down and money down the drain, your risk. If the next guy knows nothing about construction and does not hire an inspector, it is his problem (Either look it over, have it looked over, and if it is trash walk away). At some point and time society has to start accepting there mistakes and quit trying to pass the buck.

What???

Codes are minimum standards.

They are developed because something happened in the past and there were failures.

Last winter just north of here, 13 ag buildings fell down because of unusually heavy snow loads. All were 'homemade' designs. Some of the people were denied coverage because they were not to code.

It's hard to find an engineer to say it was up to code when the building is laying on the ground.

 

[tlmartin84]

That is my point....... they chose not to pay someone in the beginning, therefore no one else should pay for their mistake. They built it poorly so suffer the consequences. THIS SHOULD BE THEIR CHOICE.

Now as far as footings are concerned on a pole barn, depth will be the determining factor. Whether that is to get to something solid or stability by friction.

That should be handle by an onsite visit by the inspector. Is it? No.....

Which leads me to my next flaw in the system, I inspect bridges for a living as they are being built. If I find something wrong I (the guy inspecting it) makes them fix it.

They majority of construction is the same for most residential structures, when you pay the ridiculously high fee, the local inspector should have enough working knowledge of a simple pole barn to be able to point out the issues without requiring an engineer to stamp the stuff.

They want you to pay them to inspect it, but want to remove the liability from themselves, so they send them to an engineer. IT IS LIKE DOUBLE DIPPING.
THEY SHOULD JUST SUB OUT AN ENGINEER TO BEGIN WITH, CHARGE A SMALL FILING FEE AND BE DONE WITH IT.

 

[tlmartin84]

I used to feel bad when I was consulting, and some poor guy would come in saying he had just been to the permit office. Just dropped several hundred on a permit for a hay shed, only to find out he had to have engineer stamp stuff and drop several more.

 

[MoparTrucks]

Because it's a F'in pole building!!! It's not a G'damn hospital.
6x6 posts, pre-fab trusses, a stack of 2x4s, a stack of 2x6's, and some steel.
You go to Menards, buy the package and they give you the plans to put it together with, same plans that have been used on THOUSANDS of building before yours.

Jeebus Christ, you can't throw a cat in this country without hitting a pole building, if you've got a question, go look at the one down the street and see how it was done.

Plain and simple, pretty much any retard that knows which end of a hammer to hold on to can put together a passable pole building.
If you really and truly need help from the local building department you've got no business building it.

Pisses me off, because I've been in literally hundreds of pole buildings in my lifetime, damn near every one of them is built the same, UNTIL you get in one that some jackwagon county inspector with a hard-on about something gets hold of and costs the owners 5x what they should have had to spend.

Example, one of my former neighbors built a 30' wide pole building. The damn things had trusses in it big enough for a 60'+ building. Building department had it spec'd for a snow load like Iowa has never seen before.
I've yet to see another building with that size trusses in it, including the 30' one on my lot, in the same county.
When the building crew came to put it up they said, "WHO the F^&K spec'd these trusses?? JESUS, you're not parking trucks on the roof......"

A gal I know built what was basically 1/2 a pole building for horses. Stupid *** inspector made her do **** that nobody had ever heard of before, just because he could. It was a crime, but what was she gonna do, wasn't gonna get built without his approval.

I'm done now..........

You really need to come out of your shell!

Post of the day IMO. When I built my pole barn shop I picked out a spot and built the damn thing no permits needed and no engineer stamp. Amazing I'm still alive I guess.

 

[jayoldschool]

Build it with screws instead of nails, then it's a temporary structure. Done.

BTW, if you buy the kit from Home Hardware, they provide you with stamped drawings.

 

[ms fowler]

Sometimes inspectors tell you to do something they "want". It can be a bit risky, but you can ask him/her to show you where that in required in the Code. If you have an honest inspector, and he was honestly mistaken, he will admit that and you are OK. You risk making an enemy of the inspector, and even if he is wrong, most times, his supervisor will back him.
It helps if you have a current copy of the official code used by your county. I was building in a county in Maryland in 1984, and the Official code for that county was the 1978 version. So, things that had been addressed and corrected in the code by 1984 were not allowed because 1978 was the Official code. THAT was difficult!

 

[Never again]

I just had a post building put up by a local builder. They are "experts"in thier field. They gave me plans to give mybuilding inspector to build my new building but they were not good enough. They then charged me $850 for engeneering plans and anotjer $350 to.make up.plans.You would think "EXPERTS " in this field would draw the original plans propertly. I only paid them what was on our original agree ment. They the builder wanted me to pay for drilling holes to put in posts. I did my own top soil removal since I own a backhoe. But when he gave me another so called final bill he wanted to charge me $850 to drill holes. Just watch out for shady builders in the Ontario region

 

[Jcat5503]

my engineered stamped plans cost me $450.00 and they gave me 3 signed and 3 not signed. the first inspector at the building department had some complaints so they redid some of the wording and didn't charge me a dime

Who did yours?

 

[myredracer]

I moved to a new municipality in BC and the building dep't. insisted I hire a structural engineer for a house I was going to build and drew the plans up for myself. Even though I am an engineer (not structural) and under our professional assoc, rules at the time, I would have been allowed to act as the engineer, it didn't matter to them. Their comment was: no structural eng. - no permit. They then recommended a structural engineer who in the end turned out to be incompetent and grossly negligent.

I had to fire them and hire a new one and they found many errors that required costly remedial work. I should have filed a professional misconduct claim but just didn't have the time back then. The municipality had no problem with me being the overall "coordinating engineer" and signing off inspection reports and documents. This was a large custom house on acreage with other things to deal with too like septic disposal, new well, etc. Couple years later, in talking to an mun. inspector off the record, he said that he had come across many other issues with the engineer that got recommended to me.

One thing that really p*ssed me off was the building inspector would come out at various stages of construction and do an inspection from like 100' away and ask for my signed & sealed documents. Thousands of $$ in insp. fees and they do squat and assume zero liability.

After that, I would never again use any engineer recommended by a municipality or city building dept. Shop around and get some competitive quotes. A building insp. dept should never be recommending prof. engineers. Insisting on engineers is just a CYA policy.

While I am on a bit of a rant, I found a few errors in some of the various contractor's work that didn't meet code, like on the insulation. When I spoke to the bldg. inspector, showed it to him and gave him the code references, he said he didn't have a problem with it. The insulation work was bad enough I offered to pay them half of the bill and they never disputed it and never heard back. At least they clearly knew how wrong it was.

 

[FlavortownPublicWorks]

Because it's a F'in pole building!!! It's not a G'damn hospital.
6x6 posts, pre-fab trusses, a stack of 2x4s, a stack of 2x6's, and some steel.
You go to Menards, buy the package and they give you the plans to put it together with, same plans that have been used on THOUSANDS of building before yours.

Jeebus Christ, you can't throw a cat in this country without hitting a pole building, if you've got a question, go look at the one down the street and see how it was done.

Plain and simple, pretty much any retard that knows which end of a hammer to hold on to can put together a passable pole building.
If you really and truly need help from the local building department you've got no business building it.

Pisses me off, because I've been in literally hundreds of pole buildings in my lifetime, damn near every one of them is built the same, UNTIL you get in one that some jackwagon county inspector with a hard-on about something gets hold of and costs the owners 5x what they should have had to spend.

Example, one of my former neighbors built a 30' wide pole building. The damn things had trusses in it big enough for a 60'+ building. Building department had it spec'd for a snow load like Iowa has never seen before.
I've yet to see another building with that size trusses in it, including the 30' one on my lot, in the same county.
When the building crew came to put it up they said, "WHO the F^&K spec'd these trusses?? JESUS, you're not parking trucks on the roof......"

A gal I know built what was basically 1/2 a pole building for horses. Stupid *** inspector made her do **** that nobody had ever heard of before, just because he could. It was a crime, but what was she gonna do, wasn't gonna get built without his approval.

I'm done now..........

That... That kinda cheered me up. I love a good righteous rant. Thank you for that. I hate my city building department. And the Planning Commission. And pretty much all planning commissions.

 

[K13]

I sympathize with you. The plans clearly state that they comply with National Building Code, however there are always provincial codes.

Have you priced factory built trusses? Your lumber cost and the engineering fee will probably be the same as factory trusses.

The plans state that they meet National Building codes for when they were developed. The plan he is using was developed in 1995 and states right on it that the user needs to check with local authorities and bring it up to current/local requirements.