Here is a summation of my project that will maybe answer some questions people may have or reassure some people who are going to tackle a project themselves. I am by no means a professional at this. It was my first time. It was a roughly 1500 square foot basement floor that was covered many times over with some kind of hideous colored green paint. I wasn't looking to make it a showroom, but at the same time, I wanted the best outcome possible. After reading through these threads, I decided Epoxy Coat was the way to go. Mostly based on the good things written about Christine and her always available assistance. So much had previously been answered by her and other posters, I did not have to bother her with any questions.
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Eposy-Coat project recap
- Thread starter superdel
- Start date
Preparation.
I had to remove the green paint. There are some obstacles in the basement such as oil tanks, furnace, steps, lolly-columns etc that would require hand ginding anyway, and a floor grinder or shot blaster just would not have been feasible, I decided to to the whole floor with a 7 inch grinder. I bought a Dewalt grinder, a Dust Hoodie from HD, 2 single row twelve segment diamond cup grinding wheels (made by Rigid) from HD, and used my own shop-vac. The hood goes over the wheel and a hose connects it to the shop vac. It collected quite a bit of the dust, but if you are going to grind, you are going to make dust. This will upset the Mrs. tremendously. My advice is to NOT wet the concrete if you grind. It makes mud balls and will foul up the cutting surface and the shop vac will not be able to pick it up. I figured this out in 10 minutes. It took a total of 12 hours over 2 days to grind the floor. I am still in pretty good shape so it didn't bother me. But it is tough work. The end result ws a nice even floor with a porous surface for the epoxy to adhere to. If you do grind, please use proper perrsonal protective equipment (PPE). I wore coveralls, leather gloves, a dust mask, goggles and a face shield, and ear plugs. Please be safe.
I had to remove the green paint. There are some obstacles in the basement such as oil tanks, furnace, steps, lolly-columns etc that would require hand ginding anyway, and a floor grinder or shot blaster just would not have been feasible, I decided to to the whole floor with a 7 inch grinder. I bought a Dewalt grinder, a Dust Hoodie from HD, 2 single row twelve segment diamond cup grinding wheels (made by Rigid) from HD, and used my own shop-vac. The hood goes over the wheel and a hose connects it to the shop vac. It collected quite a bit of the dust, but if you are going to grind, you are going to make dust. This will upset the Mrs. tremendously. My advice is to NOT wet the concrete if you grind. It makes mud balls and will foul up the cutting surface and the shop vac will not be able to pick it up. I figured this out in 10 minutes. It took a total of 12 hours over 2 days to grind the floor. I am still in pretty good shape so it didn't bother me. But it is tough work. The end result ws a nice even floor with a porous surface for the epoxy to adhere to. If you do grind, please use proper perrsonal protective equipment (PPE). I wore coveralls, leather gloves, a dust mask, goggles and a face shield, and ear plugs. Please be safe.
Acid etching opinion.
If you do not want to grind, I think acid etching would be fine. I would go right for the muriatic acid. I use this stuff a lot. What it does is reacts with the lime in the concrete and leaves behind carbonate and water which is essentially baking soda. So there is no need to neutralize it with baking soda and water afterwards, since that is what you have left. The lime is what neutralizes the acid. I would rinse the floor a few time with just plain water and you should be good to go. Again, be safe and use PPE. This is my opinion only. Do what you wish. I am comfortable working with acids and lyes.
If you do not want to grind, I think acid etching would be fine. I would go right for the muriatic acid. I use this stuff a lot. What it does is reacts with the lime in the concrete and leaves behind carbonate and water which is essentially baking soda. So there is no need to neutralize it with baking soda and water afterwards, since that is what you have left. The lime is what neutralizes the acid. I would rinse the floor a few time with just plain water and you should be good to go. Again, be safe and use PPE. This is my opinion only. Do what you wish. I am comfortable working with acids and lyes.
Coating the floor.
The floor was poured sometime in the 60's and done in one shot. They did not cut in any expansion joints, nor did they put them in during the pour. They used expansion all around the perimeter against the foundation. So I did not have to worry about filling any joints. Two things you have to know about concrete. It will get hard, and it will crack. So I had some cracks to fill. I just slapped some Top N Bond into the bigger cracks. As I said earlier, I am not looking to make a showroom here.
I bought 3 full kits of grey from a local Lowes. Heeding the advice of this forum, I bought some marked mixing buckets and threw the supplied mising sticks away. I also got some extra brushes and roller covers. I have about 100 clean 5 gallon buckets at my house (I get them from work and you can never have too many clean buckets). I used 3 of them to batch mix the color. I used another to mix the actural epoxy in 2 quarts to 1 quart proportion. Mixed for 3 minutes and dumped on the floor. I also bought a 24 inch squeegee. A must. I wore an old pair of metal baseball cleats the whole time. The way the floor is laid out and with obstructions, I had to walk over some parts alot. And to make sure I had enough material, I made some of the sections to the size where I had to step in it to spread it. The spikes worked great. They were sturdy and comfortable. As a baseball player, I have many pairs laying around. This time of year, you may be able to get some leftovers at your local sporting goods store for about $20.
The floor was poured sometime in the 60's and done in one shot. They did not cut in any expansion joints, nor did they put them in during the pour. They used expansion all around the perimeter against the foundation. So I did not have to worry about filling any joints. Two things you have to know about concrete. It will get hard, and it will crack. So I had some cracks to fill. I just slapped some Top N Bond into the bigger cracks. As I said earlier, I am not looking to make a showroom here.
I bought 3 full kits of grey from a local Lowes. Heeding the advice of this forum, I bought some marked mixing buckets and threw the supplied mising sticks away. I also got some extra brushes and roller covers. I have about 100 clean 5 gallon buckets at my house (I get them from work and you can never have too many clean buckets). I used 3 of them to batch mix the color. I used another to mix the actural epoxy in 2 quarts to 1 quart proportion. Mixed for 3 minutes and dumped on the floor. I also bought a 24 inch squeegee. A must. I wore an old pair of metal baseball cleats the whole time. The way the floor is laid out and with obstructions, I had to walk over some parts alot. And to make sure I had enough material, I made some of the sections to the size where I had to step in it to spread it. The spikes worked great. They were sturdy and comfortable. As a baseball player, I have many pairs laying around. This time of year, you may be able to get some leftovers at your local sporting goods store for about $20.
Coating continued.
Mix the stuff together for at least 3 minutes. Epoxy is like bologna. The stuff in bologna won't naturally go together, but when you bash them together, the results are good. The paint and catalyst do not naturally mix. But when you bash them up, it turn into something good.
Pour it out on the floor, squeegee it out evenly, and then roll it. At this point the epoxy is just like paint. The difference is that paint dries, and epoxy hardens. So just pretend it is paint. While I was rolling a section, my wife took a brush and what was left in the bucket and went aoroung the edges of the next section. This proved wise, when we got to the oil tanks and around the steps etc. I used the same buket for mixing the whole time. Nothing hardened in it to the point where it was unusable. Follow the directions. After rolling the first section, put down the next one and roll that out. Go back to the first section and re-roll and add the flakes. Keep in mind my spikes. I just walked all over each section to apply the flakes. Don't fret about the flakes. You wil get the feel for how much you should use. I had more than enough for mine. When you broadcast them. Throw them up, not out. It isn't rocket science.
Mix the stuff together for at least 3 minutes. Epoxy is like bologna. The stuff in bologna won't naturally go together, but when you bash them together, the results are good. The paint and catalyst do not naturally mix. But when you bash them up, it turn into something good.
Pour it out on the floor, squeegee it out evenly, and then roll it. At this point the epoxy is just like paint. The difference is that paint dries, and epoxy hardens. So just pretend it is paint. While I was rolling a section, my wife took a brush and what was left in the bucket and went aoroung the edges of the next section. This proved wise, when we got to the oil tanks and around the steps etc. I used the same buket for mixing the whole time. Nothing hardened in it to the point where it was unusable. Follow the directions. After rolling the first section, put down the next one and roll that out. Go back to the first section and re-roll and add the flakes. Keep in mind my spikes. I just walked all over each section to apply the flakes. Don't fret about the flakes. You wil get the feel for how much you should use. I had more than enough for mine. When you broadcast them. Throw them up, not out. It isn't rocket science.
Wrap-up.
What worked and what went wrong. Nothing went wrong. The devil is in the prep work. I made 2 small mistakes. I put the epoxy on too thin in some spots. I had to make the 3 kits stretch because I was too cheap to step out for another $200 for an extra kit to make sure I had enough. Not a big issue though. The second is, you can see where the some of the sections started and finished. I had to sort of zig zag around and didn't exactly get to blend in some of the sections. Again, not an issue with me.
I did have a small issue with the Epoxy Coat. I got 3 kits. 2 were from the same batch and the 3rd was dated an older batch. I opened the older one and the color was pink-ish. Here the pigment had separated and semi-hardened on the bottom. I am glad I opened all 3 to mix them together. The older one was the last I opened. I had a hard time scraping the pigment off the bottom. Since I mixed 6 gallons together this wasn't a problem. If I bought this as a single kit, I would have been in trouble. I don't think I could have scraped enough pigment off the bottom to make it gray enough. Open your colors before you start to make sure you have what you want. And buy the kits in advance in case there is an issue, you have time to rectify it.
I don't have any pictures available yet. I will try to get some soon. I have roughly 50 man hours into this. (For argument, let's say my time is worth $20/hr). With the grinding stuff, extra stuff, epoxy and my time, I would say I did 1500 square feet for about $2000. Or just to round up, about $1.50 per square foot. Most places wanted in the $5-$6 range to do it.
In short, do the prep work and don''t make this harder than it is. It will turn out just fine. I give Epoxy Coat a good rating also. Nothing wrong with the product. Good Luck in your installation, and I hope my recap relieves some anxiety.
What worked and what went wrong. Nothing went wrong. The devil is in the prep work. I made 2 small mistakes. I put the epoxy on too thin in some spots. I had to make the 3 kits stretch because I was too cheap to step out for another $200 for an extra kit to make sure I had enough. Not a big issue though. The second is, you can see where the some of the sections started and finished. I had to sort of zig zag around and didn't exactly get to blend in some of the sections. Again, not an issue with me.
I did have a small issue with the Epoxy Coat. I got 3 kits. 2 were from the same batch and the 3rd was dated an older batch. I opened the older one and the color was pink-ish. Here the pigment had separated and semi-hardened on the bottom. I am glad I opened all 3 to mix them together. The older one was the last I opened. I had a hard time scraping the pigment off the bottom. Since I mixed 6 gallons together this wasn't a problem. If I bought this as a single kit, I would have been in trouble. I don't think I could have scraped enough pigment off the bottom to make it gray enough. Open your colors before you start to make sure you have what you want. And buy the kits in advance in case there is an issue, you have time to rectify it.
I don't have any pictures available yet. I will try to get some soon. I have roughly 50 man hours into this. (For argument, let's say my time is worth $20/hr). With the grinding stuff, extra stuff, epoxy and my time, I would say I did 1500 square feet for about $2000. Or just to round up, about $1.50 per square foot. Most places wanted in the $5-$6 range to do it.
In short, do the prep work and don''t make this harder than it is. It will turn out just fine. I give Epoxy Coat a good rating also. Nothing wrong with the product. Good Luck in your installation, and I hope my recap relieves some anxiety.
Herb67SS
Well-known member
You get mega-cudos from me for posting this. This helps others big time.
Thanks for taking the time to follow up for our benefit.
/h
Thanks for taking the time to follow up for our benefit.
/h
Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
Great write-up, thanks a bunch!
Now, get down in the basement and take pics. Kudos to the wife for cutting in the edging! It sounds like you did the 1500 square feet in one shot doing a section at a time; what would you say was the total time spent for laying down the product and flaking it? The reason I ask is that I'm wondering about 'open time' for the epoxy and how you felt the product was tacking up by the time you were doing the last section compared to the first section. To put the question another way, was the roller adhering to the product much more from start to finish? I realize the temperature and humidity variables affect the cure rate, but it would be a good 'rule of thumb' to know if 1500 square feet in 'X' hours is within the 'pot life' of the product and results in an acceptable application.
Now, get down in the basement and take pics. Kudos to the wife for cutting in the edging! It sounds like you did the 1500 square feet in one shot doing a section at a time; what would you say was the total time spent for laying down the product and flaking it? The reason I ask is that I'm wondering about 'open time' for the epoxy and how you felt the product was tacking up by the time you were doing the last section compared to the first section. To put the question another way, was the roller adhering to the product much more from start to finish? I realize the temperature and humidity variables affect the cure rate, but it would be a good 'rule of thumb' to know if 1500 square feet in 'X' hours is within the 'pot life' of the product and results in an acceptable application.
It took about 4.5 hours to do it. I took my time. When you mix a batch (I used 2 quarts color to 1 quart catalyst), it covers about 100 square feet. (Realistically, plan on one full kit giving you 400, not 500. I stretched mine thin to get to 500). Once you dump the mix out of the bucket and onto the floor, you have plenty of time to work with it. It took about 5 minutes to spread and then roll each section. I came back and re-rolled somewhere between 10-15 minutes after that. I was in no real hurry. Then I flaked that section. By the time I was done with that, it was time to mix, spread and roll a new section, then go back to the second section and re-roll and flake and so on. I started at 6AM finished about lunch time, that's with cleanup and everything. The temp range was mid 60's to mid 70's. I would guess humidity to be in the same range. The epoxy did not tack up on the roller at all. (Possibly due to spreading it thin). I only changed the roller to get some new knap on it. You don't have to work at the speed of light if you work in small sections. Take your time and don't panic.
superdel, I am glad you had a good outcome! Sorry to hear about the Part A getting hard on you, setting the bucket in hot water should have loosened it up considerably. Post up some pictures when you get a chance.
Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
Thanks for the reply about the time element of your basement project. Knowing you didn't feel rushed takes some of the 'fear and trepidation' out of the equation for those of us considering an epoxy project.