Epoxy Coat bubbles, What the hell!?

[87handmedown]

I did everything, and I mean EVERYTHING exactly as epoxy coat suggested. Diamond grinding, acid etch, waiting a day for everything to be dry, the whole nine yards. Everything looked great as I closed up the shop in the afternoon. This morning, I go to check on it and walk on my new floor for the first time, and this is what I find.

So Garage Journal, what should I do now? Live with the lunar surface, sand it down, start over?

 

[bdamico]

I did everything, and I mean EVERYTHING exactly as epoxy coat suggested. Diamond grinding, acid etch, waiting a day for everything to be dry, the whole nine yards. Everything looked great as I closed up the shop in the afternoon. This morning, I go to check on it and walk on my new floor for the first time, and this is what I find.

I called epoxy coat to see what in the world went wrong and they told me that there was nothing that they could do. That it was just trapped air and that I could sand it down and spend another +$300 with them for a clear coat to get a smooth floor.

That's your customer service? To tell me better luck next time and to try and sell me more of your products?

Next time I'm just going to buy whatever knock-off, 50% solids Rustoleum/[insert cheaper brand here] version I find. If I'm going to end up with half *** results, I might as well only be out half the money. I paid for Epoxy Coat over others because Christine said

Well I called you needing customer service because there was a problem with your product and you basically told me, tough ****.



So Garage Journal, what should I do now? Live with the lunar surface, sand it down, start over?

This is well documented on this site and is not limited to epoxy coat. It's one of the risks associated with these coatings and is probably the result of environmental conditions including your garage floor.

 

[87handmedown]

We're in a drought right now, no moisture in the air or in the ground, and the concrete temperature wasn't rising, as I applied this in the afternoon. I also kept all doors closed so no direct sunlight would reach the epoxy while it cured. What else is there?

 

[PeterT]

Color pattern looks great, the bubbles are a bummer. Sand it down and put on that clear coat. SPrinkle in some grit and you'll be all set. You might show them the pics and really hammer them, maybe they will give you the clear coat at cost..

 

[c7fx]

I'm so sorry that happened to you. Thats about what mine looked like when it happened to me. I think another thing needed is to apply the epoxy as the concrete cools.

When I fixed mine I actually had to use a 60 grit sandpaper to cut into the epoxy. Also the epoxy would dull the sandpaper quickly so I was changing paper fairly quickly. When done sanding I vacuumed and solvent wiped the surface before reapplying. I would suggest doing one side of the garage at a time. This will give you the ability to go back if bubbles happen again.

 

[kywildcat]

I didn't use Epoxy coat.....but I say when they read this and see the pics, you will get some kind of help from them. I doubt they want the bad publicity on here!!!! Good luck!

 

[mayday0017]

They've been getting more and more bad publicity over every since they started selling at Lowes. I'm wondering if now they are selling more volume and don't care about the little individual sell's now or what. I've never used them and was thinking about it, but after seeing people being told to buy more product to fix blemishes I've decided I won't use them.

Better luck next time, I didn't have problems with my SW epoxy but I'll be doing tile next time it just seems more predictable and easy to spot repair if ever needed.

 

[Jim B]

You did a great job of application and chip broadcast. Sorry to see that it bubbled on you. But I don't think this is a problem with the Epoxy Coat. Moister in the concrete may have been a problem. Do the Epoxy Coat instructions really say it's ok to apply the product after "waiting a day for everything to be dry". I can't imagine the slab could get dry in that amount of time. Do you have a vapor barrier beneath the concrete? Did you test for moisture in the slab before applying the epoxy? Seems your best option at this point would be to sand and clear coat.

 

[87handmedown]

You did a great job of application and chip broadcast. Sorry to see that it bubbled on you. But I don't think this is a problem with the Epoxy Coat. Moister in the concrete may have been a problem. Do the Epoxy Coat instructions really say it's ok to apply the product after "waiting a day for everything to be dry". I can't imagine the slab could get dry in that amount of time. Do you have a vapor barrier beneath the concrete? Did you test for moisture in the slab before applying the epoxy? Seems your best option at this point would be to sand and clear coat.

I'm not saying this is a problem exclusively with Epoxy Coat, but I am saying that if there are preventative measures that I could have taken, that I would have liked to have known about them. As far as drying goes; from the Epoxy Coat website,

Allow the floor to dry fully before coating (approx. 6 hours).

I gave it over 24.

No, I do not have a vapor barrier underneath the concrete. That is not standard practice in my area of the country.

When you guys say sand, are you talking sand the whole thing down, or just knocking off the little ridges of the craters?

 

[bdamico]

I'm not saying this is a problem exclusively with Epoxy Coat, but I am saying that if there are preventative measures that I could have taken, that they damn well should have told me. As far as drying goes; from the Epoxy Coat website,


I gave it over 24.

No, I do not have a vapor barrier underneath the concrete. That is not standard practice in my area of the country.

When you guys say sand, are you talking sand the whole thing down, or just knocking off the little ridges of the craters?

If you are going to apply clear over the entire floor (after the time allowed for recoat) you have to sand the entire floor

 

[burleyfarm]

Man I feel your pain. Bubbles were my biggest concern as I could not assure that the contractor had placed a vapor barrier under my concrete. I tested my concrete 2x's and didn't have any evidence of moisture. Epoxy-Coat did my install and I'm very happy with it. I have a clear coat over the color and chips with aluminum oxide for slip resistance. I found 2 small bubbles in the whole floor (1010 sf).

I think the advice you've been given here and from EC is spot on. Sand the bubbles, clear coat and add a small amount of non-slip and you'll never know you had bubbles.

Give Christine a call and see if she can't help you out on the process and pricing the clear.

 

[allinon72]

I think it is a little unfair to blame the manufacturer for this. Clearly there are problems with the slab. It's impossible for a retailer to explain 100% of the risks to you in this case. Most of the risks are well documented on GJ.

 

[87handmedown]

I think it is a little unfair to blame the manufacturer for this. Clearly there are problems with the slab. It's impossible for a retailer to explain 100% of the risks to you in this case. Most of the risks are well documented on GJ.

What problems are there with my slab? What step or suggestion did I not do in ANY of their instructions? I'm curious as to not only what you know, but how you came to know it?

I'm not saying that it's all their fault, but I shouldn't have to search an internet forum to find potential problems with their properly applied product, or solutions to fix it. If this is as common of a risk as you make it sound then Epoxy Coat is well aware of it and should at least have a contingency plan set up in the instructions.

 

[c7fx]

I'm not saying this is a problem exclusively with Epoxy Coat, but I am saying that if there are preventative measures that I could have taken, that they damn well should have told me. As far as drying goes; from the Epoxy Coat website,



When you guys say sand, are you talking sand the whole thing down, or just knocking off the little ridges of the craters?

After 24 hours dry you will need to sand down the bubbles and sand the shine off the rest.

 

[87handmedown]

After 24 hours dry you will need to sand down the bubbles and sand the shine off the rest.

What will that look like as a final result then? Will I have a great looking floor, or will it look like I've clear coated a bunch of scratches?

 

[Big-Foot]

I did everything, and I mean EVERYTHING exactly as epoxy coat suggested. Diamond grinding, acid etch, waiting a day for everything to be dry, the whole nine yards.

That really ***** that it happened...

I am curious on one point here..

Why did you Diamond Grind AND Acid etch? Normally it's one or the other, but I don't recall anyone doing both...

You may be able to rent a floor scraper that is used to remove tile and scrape the bubbles off, then apply a bit of clear epoxy over the tops.. The floor scrapers I am talking about have a very sharp replaceable blade and about 6" wide.. I scrapped 2000 SF of concrete floor that had glued down carpet to get mastik off so we could lay tile down.. Was a PITB but it worked..

 

[87handmedown]

That really ***** that it happened...

I am curious on one point here..

Why did you Diamond Grind AND Acid etch? Normally it's one or the other, but I don't recall anyone doing both...

The power trowel we used to finish the floor had a bad blade and we didn't see it in the evening of the pour because of the lighting conditions. So my contractor came back the next week and took just enough off the surface of the concrete to eliminate all the ridges, and creating what I thought would be the ideal surface for the epoxy to adhere to. The acid etch I used because it came in the kit and the instructions said it was an important step.

You may be able to rent a floor scraper that is used to remove tile and scrape the bubbles off, then apply a bit of clear epoxy over the tops.. The floor scrapers I am talking about have a very sharp replaceable blade and about 6" wide.. I scrapped 2000 SF of concrete floor that had glued down carpet to get mastik off so we could lay tile down.. Was a PITB but it worked..

Hmmm... well if I could use it to eliminate the ridges without actually scraping the epoxy up, then this might work. I'll look into this more later.

 

[Falcon67]

Have you popped one of the bubbles to see if it's trapped air, or if there is water in there. My history with etching causes me to let a floor dry for 3 days, not just one. The one I did last year I let dry for three days, with fans and went over the cracks with a hair dryer before application. If it's just air - well, its either air trapped in the slap that is outgassing, mixed too fast or air forced in from the applicator. Not looking like a coating failure, really. But ***** tremendously none the less. I think any of us would be quite upset at seeing that.

 

[c7fx]

What will that look like as a final result then? Will I have a great looking floor, or will it look like I've clear coated a bunch of scratches?

This is mine all sanded with 60 grit

this is after reapplying the epoxy

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r283/c7fx/IMG_2140_zps64154bd3.jpg?t=1348067341

 

[87handmedown]

Have you popped one of the bubbles to see if it's trapped air, or if there is water in there. My history with etching causes me to let a floor dry for 3 days, not just one. The one I did last year I let dry for three days, with fans and went over the cracks with a hair dryer before application. If it's just air - well, its either air trapped in the slap that is outgassing, mixed too fast or air forced in from the applicator. Not looking like a coating failure, really. But ***** tremendously none the less. I think any of us would be quite upset at seeing that.

It's just trapped air. Sounds like you're walking on bubble wrap. I've popped several of them and there's nothing but air inside.


c7fx, those two photo's look identical.

 

[Familyof8kids]

Do not take this as personal just another EC user feedback.

I have to lean 50% at both on fault. Instructions are lacking in many areas to help DIY's not fault on installation but also need to be real on windows of timing. 15 min pot time is not correct and 6 hours is no way enough time for concrete to dry. It depends on many factors for each floor on how many hours to let it dry after water application. I may soak my floor, pressure wash or lightly sprinkle. All of those take a different amount of dry time.

I did many different methods using EC. I did not have a single floor dry after 24 hours in wet or dry environments. I performed a moisture test using 12x12 plastic and duct tape. I waited 3 days on an outbuilding with no vapor barrier and it was still showing moisture in different areas of the floor after 36 hours.

It is not the Epoxy causing the issues it is your substrate (concrete).

I do not see knocking off the bubbles and then clear will look right. You will have void holes around the floor that will bother you every time you enter the garage. Suggest placing down another Epoxy layer then clear. You will be super happy with the final product.

You will HAVE TO SAND to knock off the sheen or the next coating WILL NOT bond correctly. Sand with 60 grit or scrap then sand the entire floor.

Many on this site including myself have said we used PPG 50% epoxy as a primer and then EC. I have not found a single person that used a primer coat end up with bubbles in the top money coat.

If you search JOHN DEERE using the search button and have 30 min to read from front to back on the posting you will see every step on how to have success.

 

[Quantum Coatings]

That ***** to have happen, but I would have to agree with the people who are saying that it is a slab issue. It is pretty much impossible for a manufacturer to cover every base when outgassing from a substrate is involved.

We moved into a new building last January and we coated all of our warehouse floors with polyaspartic. We were in a hurry so we had the brilliant idea of turning the heat up right after the first coat to speed up the cure. Ended up with bubbles all over the place just like yours but not as dense. Put on spiked shoes and went and popped them by rolling with a dry roller. We did two color coats, then accents and topcoat, in the end it was unnoticeable.

I am assuming you didn't do a prime coat and broadcast into a single color coat? Unfortunately its too late now but a preliminary coat would have sealed up the concrete and you would have noticed before the chips and everything went down. I would say use a razor blade to clean them up, lightly scuff and solvent wipe if outside the recoat window, and apply a clear overtop. The clear should hide any scratches and will increase the longevity of the floor. You will likely be able to see the imperfections if you look closely though.

 

[dandan111]

The epoxy not being dry was the problem right? He followed direction. The clear coat bubbled from epoxy gas as I see it. I dont see how the concrete slab was the culprit. Not trying to argue I would like to understand how the concrete was the problem.

 

[c7fx]

well he didn't use a clear coat.
Bubbles like that usually are big holes in the epoxy. Best thing to do is sand it down. I tried to razor blade the bubbles but truthfully it was much easier to just sand and recoat

 

[mrobins297aaa]

Hey, would you mind if I used your photo in class to show what happens if you apply your epoxy incorrectly? It is a great photo! Please respond in a irrational manner and I'll tell you why this happened. (Hey, just keeping in text with your rantings.)

Dandan111, it's called vapor emissions.... Classic.

you showed a lot of class with that answer

 

[JimVonBaden]

you showed a lot of class with that answer

No kidding!

Jim

 

[Familyof8kids]

The epoxy not being dry was the problem right? He followed direction. The clear coat bubbled from epoxy gas as I see it. I dont see how the concrete slab was the culprit. Not trying to argue I would like to understand how the concrete was the problem.

I also tell my kids to make sure they read the problem so they will not get the answer wrong or ask a question that has already been answered.

He did not install a clear coat.

The problem is 110% the substrate (concrete) due to water being applied to the concrete and it WAS NOT dry. Not a single epoxy system on the market creates bubbles.

Every pro installer on this site says "INSTALL A PRIMER BELOW EPOXY".

There is countless postings on this site with positive results and same with failures. We all work together to help the MFG with text and updates with hopes that they will update the instructions to include helpful hints.

If the MFG said let your concrete dry 48 hours that would be false for 90% of the installations. Always test the slab for moisture before installing a coating that locks the surface.

 

[dandan111]

Thanks *******. But I'm sure I'm a few years older than your kids.

 

[jordan369]

Sorry to see bud. I would think if you sand the spots and then add some sharkbite to a clear coat it would help hide those areas. Its fixable. Sorry the manufacture isn't working with you.

Mike

 

[dcs Inc]

Apologies to the group. gene

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

I am with Quantum. A PRIMER IS GOOD INSURANCE!!

It won't solve all your woes but helps to eliminate some of them.

 

[87handmedown]

Hey I appreciate all the input guys. No this didn't turn out the way I wanted but it's not a total loss. I knocked all the bubbles down to their craters yesterday and started rolling equipment into the garage. I'll possibly sand them on down in the future and apply a clear coat but for now, their not that much of a hindrance so I'll just live with the craters.

Moisture test your concrete, and apply a good primer (bs warranty be damned). Best of luck to you in your garage floor coatings.

 

[Falcon67]

Well - at least it's just air out gassing. Could always be worse! The floor does look real good in spite of the issues.

 

[csp]

Thanks *******. But I'm sure I'm a few years older than your kids.

Nice. A few years older, but still calling people names. Must be too old to learn something new too, because you did misread the problem.

 

[dandan111]

Teacher said I was a slow learner,your a ******* also.

 

[csp]

Yep it's obviously everyone else that's the problem. LMAO

OP, sorry for the hijack.

 

[dandan111]

Sorry -I couldn't help myself.

 

[kywildcat]

Wonder why Christine hasn't posted on this issue??

 

[87handmedown]

Wonder why Christine hasn't posted on this issue??

I'm guessing it's because she has been very very busy!

 

[bdamico]

Yeah, this irks me a lot as well. Your company is getting called out on a high traffic internet forum that you're apart of and she's no where to be found. My guess, is because she knows they're selling an incomplete kit with incomplete instructions while marketing it as a top of the line kit.

Honestly, I would've accepted a sincere apology. If when I had called Epoxy Coat and heard something like "I'm so sorry sir that this happened to you. While rare, this kind of thing has been known to happen with our product before due to several possibilities. Our best suggestion is to either sand the coating down completely and try again, or sand down the craters and top surface a little bit and go over it all with a clear coat. We recognize that you've already spent a significant amount of money with us the first time so we'll work with you on the pricing on both of these options if you're interested. Again, we're very sorry that you fell into the 15%(or whatever it is) group that has had these issues."

See, now that give me, the customer, something to work with. That is a professional response that at least makes me feel like you care about me as a customer. But that's not what I received. Instead, I was put on hold twice and who ever the hell I was talking to (they never identified themselves even when I asked) just gave me whatever response their superior had written down on paper and tried to sell me more product.

I've already had several people, both in person and on facebook, ask me about my floor and where they should buy a coating for their floor and what I've learned ect. as they are interested in doing this too. I was kind of the test run out of my big group.

Guess who's not going to be recommended after this?

I don't blame her. You were really nasty right out of the gate. I actually feel bad for the company.