Epoxy-Coat: HVLP onto metal surface

[Trey T]

I have left over epoxy paint and I want to repaint some standing cabinets face to match my floor. I would like to get a smooth finish like painting a car using my HVLP gun. Is there a reducer made for spraying epoxy-coat? if so, what's the ratio?

Currently epoxy-coat uses a 1:1.8 mix ratio (hardener to base) for both clear and base coat.

 

[Zeke]

MEK is often mentioned as the appropriate reducer for epoxy. You need to test a small batch for compatibility and for the amount to be added. HVLP's are notorious for dry spray and orange peel. You need to find the balance between flow out and surface tension for your mix. I suggested in another post about painting to paint on horizontal surfaces when possible. If you can lay the cabinets on their backs and sides you can hardly go wrong.

In lieu of using a Zahn cup, I use the stir stick and watch the flow off the stick into the can. You have to get a feel for this with different materials but it's safe to say that if you can draw little circles on the surface of the material in the can or the material runs rapidly off the stick in lots of drips, you've missed the mark one way or the other.

 

[Trey T]

Thanks. I'll have to test it on the cabinet sides.

MOD: please move this thread to flooring area.

 

[benwah]

Trey, a few things.

What exact product are you using?

Is it 100% solids? If yes, you will most likely need a 45:1 or 56:1 airless sprayer with a .019-.033 tip.

You will also need to backroll. Spraying 100% solids in MOST cases is merely a means to transfer the material to substrate. The only time (I've seen) you wouldn't back roll 100% solids epoxy is on the interior of potable water tanks BECAUSE IT'S BEING SPRAYED ON AT 16-40+ MILS

Have you contacted the manufacturer and asked for their recommendation for which thinner to use? I've never seen MEK used to thin epoxy, only urethanes.

Common thinners are XYLENE, MIBK (METHYL ISOBUTYL KETONE), TOLUENE, and ETHYL BENZENE among others. There are different thinners for different products. 1 thinner might be 15% Ethyl Benzene and 85% Xylene. Another might be a mixture of 2 or 3 of them. I highly recommend contacting Epoxy-Coat.

Surface preparation: Since these are steel the best preparation would be an SSPC-SP6 Commercial Blast Cleaning. If this is 100% solids is has damn near no penetration. It's needs a rough surface to adhere to.

If an SSP6 cannot be achieved I would suggest a SSPC-SP3 Power Tool Cleaning, meaning "Removes all loose mill scale, loose rust, loose paint, and other loose detrimental foreign matter by power wire brushing, power sanding, power grinding, power tool chipping, and power tool descaling."

Do not use a standard grinding wheel. That will only leave you with a smooth surface that epoxy will not adhere to. I like to use a wire wheel then go back and make a cross hatch pattern using 50-60 grit sandpaper then solvent wipe.

If you have any questions please ask way!

 

[Trey T]

No way I'm using an airless sprayer!!! Atomization gets tossed out of the window when you use airless sprayer. No way I'm using a roller on a metal cabinet. That's the reason why I want to use a HVLP for a smooth finish.

I'm sorry but if you recommend people using 50-60grits sand paper for a decent finish, even if you lay etching primer or regular high build primer, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

I'll give E-C a call but I'm not sure if they would know about automotive-level painting; I might have to experiment using some automotive paint reducer I already own. This little project of mine is quite disposable. This all might change if I can't find teh time to experiment. I have never experiment on paint mixing before, I usually go w/ manufacture and distributor's specs.

 

[benwah]

I realize what you WANT to do. You're not going to have much luck spraying 100% solids out of an HVLP with a what 1.3mm tip? Hopefully you have at least a 1.8 (.070) mm. You're going to have to thin it quite a bit. I recently sprayed a tailgate for my friends jeep with an 84% solids epoxy primer and had to thin it 20% to get it to flow correctly because the airless was down.

I'm sorry but if you recommend people using 50-60grits sand paper for a decent finish, even if you lay etching primer or regular high build primer, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Actually I recommended an SSPC-SP6 Commercial Blast Cleaning.

I said if you cannot achieve that, an SSPC-SP3 Power Tool Cleaning would be your next best bet. See, the wire wheel doesn't leave much of a profile so going back over the area with coarse sand paper will give that epoxy a little more something to grab on to.

I did that exact thing on these sliders for my GF's truck with the exact same primer and a high-solids polyurethane. 2 years later after being exposed to Arizona sun, off-roading, snow, dust storms, ice and freeway traffic they're still holding up great. There is only a slight orange peel finish after application, which is expected. Unfortunately spraying was out of the question.

Hey buddy, I was only trying to help. I work with high performance coatings every day, but seeing as:

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

I will see myself out.

 

[Zeke]

-------------------snip---------------------------------
I've never seen MEK used to thin epoxy, only urethanes.

Common thinners are XYLENE, MIBK (METHYL ISOBUTYL KETONE), TOLUENE, and ETHYL BENZENE among others. There are different thinners for different products. 1 thinner might be 15% Ethyl Benzene and 85% Xylene. Another might be a mixture of 2 or 3 of them. I highly recommend contacting Epoxy-Coat.
-------------------snip---------------------------------

I agree about contacting the manufacturer. MEK has been used successfully with epoxy but so has alcohol.

 

[Trey T]

Benwah: All I asked was what type of reducer is needed for the E-C and its ratio

You don't have to worry about other stuff. It's great that you provide information but when you start typing away and provide misinformation, that's very irritating. And NO! 50-60grits is EXTREMELY too coarse for any decent finish on metal panel. In automotive, you have to use 500-600grits for any base coat; 50grits and 500grits is a wide margin of roughness.

Thanks, guys. There's enough info for me to move next step.

 

[benwah]

That's crazy, abrasive blasting leaves an angular profile of 1.0 mil and beyond. 1.5-2.0 mils is standard for an SP6, 2.5-4.0 mils is standard for an SP10. This method of surface prep mentioned above will leave you with less than a 1.0 mil angular anchor profile.

Epoxy goes over abrasive blasted metal with no problem. Why is it coating manufacturers, architects, and engineers recommend it and it's an industry standard? Actually, I have some cold rolled steel panels in my office that have been abrasive blasted to a 1.5 mil angular anchor profile and have 1 coat of epoxy on them and they look just fine. I can show you pics of you'd like. This is not automotive paint, there is no point comparing the two.

Your epoxy should be going on at least 2.0-4.0 mils DFT minimum, that is thick enough to hide any surface preparation marks.

You saying that I am providing misinformation and it is "very irritating" is pretty rude.

Good luck with your project.

 

[Zeke]

Hey, hey guys. There is no reason to get into a ***** slapping contest here. Sure, there will be lots of surface scratch transfer from a rough surface through normal paints. Some coatings are applied much thicker in terms of mills and I think that's the world benwah is quite familiar with.

If I'm not mistaken (it's been nearly 50 years since I attended a trade school on the subject), 2-part epoxy is an exothermic curing process. That being said, it is possible that the coating can harden w/o much shrinkage and therefore not transfer the appearance of the bare surface.

On the opposite side of the coin, when we used to use lacquer filler/primer, it would transfer surface scratches months later. Now that polyester primer is used, that problem is much less likely to occur since the primer is catalyzed and hardens at the rate you design.

So, Trey T, methinks you still have some learning to do because I don't think you're all the well informed of all the parameters in the coatings industry. You've heard some correct info and you're trying to make it universal when it's not.

OTOH, benwah still doesn't know exactly which HVLP set up you have and neither do I. I have a turbine driven set up, a pressure pot set up and a gravity feed HVPL gun. I also have several air caps, fluid nozzles and the correct needles for each.

When you get to know the equipment and its uses plus the requirements of the various materials and shop conditions, come on back and we'll get some real business done.

Meanwhile, both you go to your corners, this round is over.

 

[Trey T]

Benwah: I never said this was to be applied exactly like automotive, but similar level like automotive (i.e. HVLP gun use and that level of smoothness). There you go again with making big assumption. I said 50grit vs 500grit is a wide margin of difference but I never said 500grit was necessary for epoxy application on metal surface. Again, thanks but you worry too much.

Let's move on, guys. I only asked two simple questions; no need to micro-manage.