Epoxy-Coat: unsightly "bumps"

[dkhoe]

After much preparation and cleaning, we finally laid down the epoxy this weekend on our small industrial space. It was easy to spread out and roll out. We did not use anti-slip material or flakes because we wanted a completely smooth and glossy finish. However, after the final roll of each section, it seems that the entire surface was full of bumps, like a teenager's bad case of acne. Unfortunately the bumps didn't level out and that's the way it cured . See pics below, with some close-ups.

At first we thought the bumps were entrapped dirt or debris, and we confirmed the roller nap wasn't shedding. To be honest, we did find a few strands of mop fibers (the mop was new and still shedding!) but we can't explain the vast majority of the bumps.

We tried using shorter nap rollers (1/4"), rolling slower, and not waiting the full 10 minutes before the second roll, but there wasn't any noticeable improvement with these changes.

Has anyone experienced this effect, or know why it was happening? Or is this the way Epoxy-Coat is supposed to cure?

 

[rugerlady]

You should call me during business hours tomorrow. This is not normal.

 

[Edger]

Bad batch by the looks of it.

 

[Keep]

Sorta looks like air bubbles.

How big is your space?

 

[dkhoe]

We tried using shorter nap rollers (1/4"), rolling slower, and not waiting the full 10 minutes before the second roll, but there wasn't any noticeable improvement with these changes.

Took a much closer look at the bumps on the part of the floor where we made the changes, cured now to the point I can walk on it. Yes there is a difference - the bumps are more sparse and they're also smaller, maybe by a factor of 2.

The total space is about 3000 sq ft, divided into 2 sections. We did the smaller 1250 sqft section the first day, then the larger 1750 sqft section the second day after we made the changes. Weather conditions and temperatures were about the same both days.

Thanks Christine - I'll call you tomorrow.

 

[BUGTHUG]

Looks like a chemical reaction to something. It even looks like the paint, or the the epoxy side, had been frozen. Maybe prior to you getting the paint.Something don't look right, and I'm sure getting that removed from the floor is going to be a nightmare!

 

[kyles974]

I'm very curious to find out what happend?

 

[Commando]

Looks to me to be out-gassing, but with mine the air broke through the surface tension of the epoxy and have craters I am going to smooth out and fill in.

 

[tncatadjuster]

Looks like roller nap to me, a little goes a long way. Cheap covers are bad news for epoxy.

 

[rugerlady]

Had a long nasty reply to most of the un thought out responses, but decided I better bite my tongue and just try to help my customer when he calls today.

 

[kyles974]

Had a long nasty reply to most of the un thought out responses, but decided I better bite my tongue and just try to help my customer when he calls today.

well, think about the poor guy, spends alot of good hard money to buy an epoxy, spends alot of good hard work to put the epoxy down and then to have this happen to him.

At least it's in an email instead of screaming over the phone in your ear, regaurdless of WHO'S to blame.

 

[rugerlady]

Kyles974, you may want to reread my post. It had absolutely nothing to do with the OP or his issue (that i will gladly handle for him)

 

[kyles974]

Kyles974, you may want to reread my post. It had absolutely nothing to do with the OP or his issue (that i will gladly handle for him)

Oh, well sorry for thinking you were talking about the OP, since he titled this with the name "Epoxy-Coat" and then you said "You should call me during business hours tomorrow. This is not normal. "

and then said "Had a long nasty reply to most of the un thought out responses, but decided I better bite my tongue and just try to help my customer when he calls today. "

.....just thought you were talking about the OP, so I will corect what I said and say ........

just think about any poor guy/gal that spent hard earn money.............etc.,etc.,

 

[richtersrodz]

Christine, I have never talked with you, but look forward to the day when I will get to
finally order your product. Your professionalism seems second to none on here, when guys
are pulling their hair out, and panicing because something, went wrong..

 

[rugerlady]

He is going to send me better pictures. He diamond ground the floor with an existing coating. There were no issues with the rollers coming apart. The product squeegees out fine, the floor started looking lumpy during the rolling. Still working on this!

 

[csp]

Oh, well sorry for thinking you were talking about the OP, since he titled this with the name "Epoxy-Coat" and then you said "You should call me during business hours tomorrow. This is not normal. "

and then said "Had a long nasty reply to most of the un thought out responses, but decided I better bite my tongue and just try to help my customer when he calls today. "

It seemed obvious to me that Christine was addressing responses to the OP made by others.

.....just thought you were talking about the OP, so I will corect what I said and say ........

just think about any poor guy/gal that spent hard earn money.............etc.,etc.,

Again, seems obvious that she's doing that by asking the OP to call her so that she can get to the bottom of the problem and find a solution. There's only so much that can be done over an internet forum.

 

[xrdad]

Another great example of Customer Care from Rugerlady.

Those that actually read the posts, knows she has the OP best interests in mind and will actually diagnose the issue instead of just throwing wild guesses out there. THAT is the information that helps out the forum and the users at large.

If you're a poor guy/gal, this is a company you want to deal with!

 

[kyles974]

Well, I guess I completely mis-read this: "but decided I better bite my tongue "

.......because I took it as she "decided," to bite her tongue,

.......I was like wow, what if she "decided" not to bite her tongue?

Anyone else take it this way?

........nevermind, this is not the place, sorry dkhoe
Wait a minute, why am I saying sorry, I was talking about you and your thread the whole time

 

[Commando]

Let us know what it turns out to be, just thought it might have been bubbles but upon further reviewing pictures does not seem to be uniform, but don't know what mine looked like until they popped.

 

[rugerlady]

I and some of the guys are reviewing the more up close pictures. To me it almost looks like the concrete or roller lint....I will have the owner of the company look too and see what he thinks.
dkhoe did tell me he was pretty **** about making sure the floor was clean and that it was not the rollers coming apart.

 

[sickleport]

I'll bet $1 that these bumps are caused by roller lint.

It looks exactly like my epoxy-coat floor (especially the linear patterns in picture #4). Fortunately, I applied a medium/light flaking which helped to hide these blemishes.

I'm curious to hear what brand & model of roller that the OP used, especially after reading that this problem started "after the final roll of each section".

For what it's worth, my "bumps" never caused an issue with the coating's durability or ability to clean (and even provided a bit of anti-slip).

 

[thegarageguy]

looks like roller delaminated to me............sand, solvent wipe and reapply with a better roller cover meant for epoxy

 

[hammer294]

to help avoid this, what rollers are recommended? I am stopping by the hardware store tonight to pick up supplies and starting my project this weekend. ty

 

[CMMG]

I'm doing my Epoxy-Coat floor tomorrow and Thursday as long as the humidity drops as predicted. I ordered 1 1/2 premium kits from Epoxy-Coat which included 4 of the 9" roller covers. I will use those but I was thinking of getting some 18" rollers too. Is there anything special I should look for when buying rollers, I don't want this to happen to me? I also saw threads from people that de-linted their rollers using duct tape, should I do this? Any other tips would be appreciated.

 

[rugerlady]

I have up close pictures, this is not roller lint. This is a problem with the substrate. He used a grinder on the existing coating, applied our epoxy over that. It looks to me like the substrate is the issue. If anyone would like to take a look at the closeup pics send me a PM with your email and I will send them to you.

 

[rugerlady]

to help avoid this, what rollers are recommended? I am stopping by the hardware store tonight to pick up supplies and starting my project this weekend. ty

We recommend 3/8" lint free rollers.

 

[rugerlady]

I'm doing my Epoxy-Coat floor tomorrow and Thursday as long as the humidity drops as predicted. I ordered 1 1/2 premium kits from Epoxy-Coat which included 4 of the 9" roller covers. I will use those but I was thinking of getting some 18" rollers too. Is there anything special I should look for when buying rollers, I don't want this to happen to me? I also saw threads from people that de-linted their rollers using duct tape, should I do this? Any other tips would be appreciated.

Call me if you have any questions. Use the rollers that are supplied, if you want 18" rollers, purchase 3/8" nap lint free rollers.

 

[Edger]

I have up close pictures, this is not roller lint. This is a problem with the substrate. He used a grinder on the existing coating, applied our epoxy over that. It looks to me like the substrate is the issue. If anyone would like to take a look at the closeup pics send me a PM with your email and I will send them to you.

Christine, can you expand on the substrate issues please, if there were no lumps in the substrate because it was diamond ground and it was thoroughly cleaned what other substrate issues could cause this? I am curious to know.

 

[kyles974]

I will say this dkhoe, if the first pics are dried, that gloss shine is great!!!

 

[newguy2]

Hello everyone, new to Garage journal, but have learned a lot from the forum.

Dkhoe I ran into a problem last month with getting bubbles in the topcoat of clear epoxy. I talked with Jennifer at epoxy-coat who was very helpful but said they couldn't figure out why. I prep'ed the floor with an air tech walk behind floor grinder. I can understand bubbles in the first coat as air migrates up from the floor, but the second coat really has me puzzled. The bubbles didn't appear until the topcoat was down for several hours and it happened across the entire floor. I applied the top coat when the base coat could be walked on, approx 6 hrs and closed the doors to prevent wind, and sun from effecting the cure process. It was a 72 degree day with low humidity. Wish you the best and would like to know what you figure out. I have to rough up the topcoat and reapply another coat of clear epoxy, hope to get it ordered and done before the weather turns cold.

 

[dkhoe]

Thanks for everyone's comments. I will let Christine and the other folks at Epoxy-Coat come up with what they think the problem was. Hope that I won't need to section and send a piece of my floor to figure it out .

To those who asked about roller covers, we used some of the covers that were in the kits, supplemented by ones we bought at Home Depot (6-pack, item #639335). When we switched to 1/4" nap, we used item #852368, model RC142.

To determine if the covers would shed, we pulled on the nap to see if any fibers came loose. But I like the idea of using duct tape. Based on our observations, I don't think the covers were shedding.

Before the project began, I also looked for 18" covers and roller frames. Around here (Orange County, CA), they seem to be pretty scarce... no stores had them in stock. Grainger lists them as available, but they are quite a bit more expensive than the standard 9" covers and frames. In the end, we didn't think we needed the wider rollers since we were only painting 100 sq ft for each 1/4 kit that we mixed.

@newguy2: thanks for sharing your experience with the bubbles. Can't tell from your pics too well, but are the bubbles uniformly spread over the entire surface? The bumps on my epoxy are randomly dispersed, and in any case we're still not certain that the bumps are in fact bubbles. We did see some true bubbles, and they don't look like these bumps at all.

@kyles974: yes, in the first pics the epoxy was already cured enough to walk on. I'm not sure if I should expect the shine to remain after people start walking on it? Anyway, from far away the floor looks like it's been textured intentionally.

 

[thegarageguy]

Sorry dkhoe, cheap rollers will do this...Need shed resistant covers. Just because you used tape to clean them doesn't mean it won't delaminate.

 

[rugerlady]

Sorry dkhoe, cheap rollers will do this...Need shed resistant covers. Just because you used tape to clean them doesn't mean it won't delaminate.

send me a PM with your email. If you were looking at the pics I am, you would change your mind on the lint!!

 

[Red Leader]

I'm confident Epoxy-Coat will handle this - they have been very courteous and professional in my dealings with them. I hope a solution presents itself but I wouldn't worry either, you are in good hands

 

[Edger]

I am just curious to know what substrate issues could cause bumps.

 

[rugerlady]

I am just curious to know what substrate issues could cause bumps.

An uneven or bumpy substrate would be my first guess. They gouged up an existing coating with a grinder...

 

[Edger]

An uneven or bumpy substrate would be my first guess. They gouged up an existing coating with a grinder...

DKhoe,

Do you think you left coating lumps after your thorough clean?
Can you cut through a bump near the edge to see what it is made of?
I just cannot think of any substrate issue that would do this.

 

[kyles974]

DKhoe,

Do you think you left coating lumps after your thorough clean?
Can you cut through a bump near the edge to see what it is made of?
I just cannot think of any substrate issue that would do this.

I thought the same thing; to cut through a bump to see?

 

[rugerlady]

That would be good to see. Keep in mind, I did ask if it was flowing and smooth when it was applied to the floor. His answer was yes, it was smooth. The product was not lumpy.

 

[MrMark]

Way too many bumps to be lint hairs. That would be one naked roller if it left all that hair.

I'll bet it is the bubbles again. No one seems to know about these bubbles but they keep coming up and ruining a fair number of jobs.

He said he put this on in Orange County. Where? It is hot as hell in parts of Orange County. The bubbles seem to come when it is hot.