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Epoxy Coating 1961 Slab

aavgerinos

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Jul 19, 2010
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Poway, California
Background info:

Home purchased about a year ago. Was a rental for many years, garage was carpeted and converted to a living space. The upside is that there was minimal grease/oil spots under the carpet padding. After spending a few days browsing this site, last year I purchased 2 packs of Rustoleum Epoxyshield Professional (solvent based stuff) and 1 box of their Clearcoat in hopes of creating a a kickass floor for my new house.

Prior to this past weekend, my plan was as follows:

1) Rent a 3500psi pressure washer from Home Depot. Remove as much grease, plaster, paint, and tar as possible from the flooring. First with detergent, and second with a degreaser like Simple Green.
2) Acid etch to remove any stubborn bits of plaster and the like using Muriatic Acid purchased from a pool supply store (cheaper than Home Depot, right?).
3) Pressure wash again to completely remove acid. Check pH to make sure acid has neutralized. Keep a large supply of baking soda on hand just in case.
3) Fill gaps around the perimeter with new concrete
4) Let slab dry/cure 3-4 weeks
5) Vacuum flooring to remove all dust
6) Follow directions on box for epoxy.


So the pressure washer and acid didn't work as well as I had hoped. The ZEP concrete soap degreased well enough, but overall the floor still needs a lot more work.

Here are a couple photos of the floor prior to cleaning:



I used the pool grade muriatic acid available at our local Home Depot. Strength is 14%. Undiluted. Here are the results after a day's labor:






We applied the acid, scrubbed it "into" the surface, and then let it sit for 10-15 minutes. Then washed it down with the pressure washer and followed that up with the high pressure setting to try and remove the paint, plaster, and rust shown above.

It didn't work as well as I had hoped. At this point, I think a Shotblaster would be a better method of preparing the surface. I'm assuming that will be strong enough to remove the rust and stubborn paint.

My original goal with this garage floor was to seal it and a couple inches of the surrounding wall with the epoxy. Assuming the flooring had a natural slope, I could simply hose down the garage from time to time.

However, after spending all day working on the floor I realized something very important: This slab is in terrible shape.

It looks like the slab has slid under the house slab an inch or two. In addition, the slab looks like it's only 3-4 inches thick, I doubt it's reinforced, no gravel base, probably doesn't have a moisture barrier of any sort, and the slope of the floor was either terrible to begin with or has changed over time.

So now I have to wonder: Does it make good sense to spend another couple hundred bucks Shotblasting the floor when there's a good chance it's just going to bubble and crack anyway?

But how soon will it fail? Maybe Shotblasting the epoxy floor will mean good adhesion for only 10 years on this crappy slab versus 20 years on a good slab? Or maybe I cut my losses, sell the epoxy on Craigslist, and use concrete paint every 2-4 years?

In the end, I think I just want a durable floor coating that keeps the garage looking reasonably clean for the next 7-10 years. It doesn't have to be glass smooth or show room quality as I have no intentions of filling the little divots and small cracks.

I also need to figure out how to best fill those large gaps in the slab. Unfortunately pressure washing and acid etching didn't remove all the paint and foam so I fear the bond between the old slab and new concrete will be mediocre at best. I foresee a hairline crack developing even if I use some sort of expansion joint.

Do I bother with an expansion gap/joint if it's just going to crack anyway? On the other hand, a hairline crack is much smaller than a 2 inch wide gap. I suppose the correct/professional way to fix the gap is to use a concrete saw to make the gap much larger (like 6-12 inches?), clean up the slab bonding surfaces really well, add the expansion joint near the wall/driveway, and fill the rest with concrete. But, is it worth it when the rest of the floor is in crappy condition? Also, do expansion joint pieces come in difference thicknesses? Home Depot has a fiberboard that looks to be about 3/8" thick and I'm finding remnants of a similar material in a thickness 1/3 that size.

What would you do in this situation?
 
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AlphaGarage

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Did the epoxy instructions say the acid will clean of the paint etc? If so they mislead you. The acid is used to etch the concrete, not clean it, it will have minimal effect on paint, most stains, etc.

Also, what leads you to believe the floor will bubble and flake?

There are crack fillers that remain somewhat flexible after they cure. If the settling has stabilized. And there aren't any moisture issues, you should be able to repair that mess and have a good looking coated floor. You need to have realistic expectations (a coating can't fix the slope, divots don't fill themselves, coatings can't fix seismic shifts or settling, acid doesn't clean off paint etc.) get good info, good product, and put in more than one days worth of work.
 
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aavgerinos

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Jul 19, 2010
Messages
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Poway, California
Thanks for the quick response.

To be honest, I haven't opened the boxes for the epoxy so I have no clue what Rustoleum recommends. I was hoping the acid would at least soften the paint so that the pressure washer could remove it.

From what I've read, many/most epoxy floor products will seal the top surface of the slab. Bubbles and blisters can occur when moisture seeps through the concrete, right? Maybe it doesn't happen often or perhaps folks blame the moisture when in fact the real problem was poor floor prep preventing proper adhesion?

"...put in more than one days worth of work."

I hear ya. I just want to make sure that I'm not wasting time by stubbornly attacking this project while using the wrong tools. When I can hold the pressure washer directly over paint/tar/rust and it doesn't budge, I assume I need a different tool to get the job done.
 

thegarageguy

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What would you do in this situation?

Hire a professional...this work is above your pay grade :)

Your situation cannot be done with epoxy but rather a hybrid urethane concrete and polyaspartic chip system, Resists up to 15 lbs of moisture and self levels at 1/4 inch thick to hide all your flaws, like so....

1256429770.jpg


1257688830.jpg
 
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aavgerinos

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Poway, California
Looks really nice, but is it cost effective? I'm guessing a job like that would cost on the order of $2000-$4000 out here in California. With all the other house projects going on, I've got a budget of less than half that.
 

930dreamer

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In the picture where the floor doesn't touch the wall isn't good. I'd make sure and decide if you wanted to start over with the concrete before putting a bunch of time in to it. My .02:)
 

gabeancounter

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Here is my suggestion. Just another DIY guy.

Hydraulic cement - mix and fill all the cracks.
Home Depot sells 20lb bucket $11. Just a guess but looks like you need 6 buckets.

Rent the hand held grinder and vac @ HD for $90 a day. You will have to buy one diamond blade $70. Grind the floor.

Pickup a couple tubes of cheap caulk that is paintable. Fill the hair line cracks with this.

If you have enough Rustoleum to do two coats of base color that will be perfect. Do one coat. Dry. Second coat flake. Then clear. Enjoy your floor!

Don't get caught up in trying to achive a $5k floor for your garage. Also a little extra flake helps cover many sins! Good luck.
 
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aavgerinos

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Poway, California
In the picture where the floor doesn't touch the wall isn't good. I'd make sure and decide if you wanted to start over with the concrete before putting a bunch of time in to it. My .02:)

That's the crux of the matter and why I contacted you fine folks on this message board. To satisfy my curiosity I think I'll get some very rough quotes for how much it might cost to replace the slab.

If it's around $5k-$7k, I may just patch the gaps with concrete, slap on some concrete paint and then replace both the garage slab and driveway in 5-7 years.

Here is my suggestion. Just another DIY guy.

Hydraulic cement - mix and fill all the cracks.
Home Depot sells 20lb bucket $11. Just a guess but looks like you need 6 buckets.

Rent the hand held grinder and vac @ HD for $90 a day. You will have to buy one diamond blade $70. Grind the floor.

Pickup a couple tubes of cheap caulk that is paintable. Feel the hair line cracks with this.

If you have enough Rustoleum to do two coats of base color that will be perfect. Do one coat. Dry. Second coat flake. Then clear. Enjoy your floor!

Don't get caught up in trying to achive a $5k floor for your garage. Also a little extra flake helps cover many sins! Good luck.

Thanks for the tips and suggestions. Is there a reason you chose the handheld grinder over, say, a Shotblaster? The local Home Depot has a floor buffer/grinder that can utilize stone cutting pads, but I'm concerned that will leave swirl marks. I can also rent a Shotblaster from Home Depot but it requires a 30 minute drive. Cost for 24 hours plus media is about $200.

Will a Shotblaster take up the rust or, again, am I expecting too much from the tools?
 

gabeancounter

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HD around here does not carry a shot blaster. That is a great deal. If you can get pretty close to the wall I say go for the shot blaster. Never used one though. It should take up the rust stains. Unless they are deeper than surfaces stains.
 
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AlphaGarage

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Do you have water or moisture issues? If you don't know, that's a good place to start. Get a calcium chloride moisture vapor emission test kit. It looks like you're in SoCal, depending on the exact area you're in you might not have any problems in that department.
 
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aavgerinos

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Poway, California
Someone on another technical message board brought up a very good point: I need to be concerned with the working areas of the floor. In that case, the middle of the room. The edges will be covered by cabinets and the like anyway.

Plus, the rest of the house is very worn and so it's not worth my time and effort to make the garage floor look like $20,000 pro job when the rest of the house looks very used.

So yesterday I decided to fill the gaps to the best of my ability despite the fact that the concrete wasn't totally clean:



Not too shabby for my first time working with concrete. I realize now the reason I couldn't get a smooth surface: I didn't work the material enough when it was fresh to properly sink the gravel. Oh well. 2.5 bags of concrete and 1 large plastic putty knife = $10 repair

To finish out the preparation I think I'll shotblast everything (I hope it also removes tar), and then fill the rough spots and large cracks with Epoxyshield Concrete Patch. That should be good enough for a slab like this.

I'm considering to use self leveling underlayment in the back of the garage to fill the noticeable low spot. I used the same stuff on the interior slab to fill the low spots prior to putting down the laminate flooring. Good idea? Bad idea?

After that it's 2 coats of Rustoelum Epoxyshield Professional Epoxy and 1 clear coat. At this point I'm undecided on incorporating an anti-skid additive.

To finish it out, I think I'll use vinyl wallbase and caulk to seal the edges of the floor to the walls. Not quite as **** as running the epoxy up the walls like I originally planned; but given the circumstances, it's much more practical.

Reasonable plan?
 

munkey

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Louisville, KY
I'm a total newbie here but have been lurking for quite a while. Your project is interesting to me because my garage is old and pretty beat up, and I have some of the same issues you do -- I will be interested to see how your floor turns out!
To finish out the preparation I think I'll shotblast everything (I hope it also removes tar), and then fill the rough spots and large cracks with Epoxyshield Concrete Patch.
I love the Epoxyshield Concrete Patch, it's worked really well for me on a couple projects. I'm certainly not experienced enough to give you advice that you should take seriously, especially because I have been grinding and not shotblasting, but you might want to consider doing the patching first, at least for the larger cracks. On my first project, I used the patch after doing most of the other prep and you can still see some marks from it even after several coats of high quality epoxy and urethane. On the project I'm doing now, I did the patching first and then ground the surface down and although it's not finished yet, I'm certain it's going to look better this way.

That concrete patch gets pretty damn hard, and it's awfully difficult to sand it down or whatever after the fact. It can also be difficult to get it completely level before it starts to gum up on your putty knife... it doesn't seem to like being "overtooled". As I gain practice with it, it seems to prefer quick, firm strokes and I find myself having to resist the temptation to keep working it until it's perfect because I usually end up making it worse. If you patch first, none of this matters very much. Just something to consider!

Good luck, looking forward to more pics as it comes along...
 

rugerlady

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FWIW, shotblasting can be tricky for the first timer. It is easy to really chew up the floor. If you do use one, work cautiously.
Most tool rentals and Home Depots rent out diamond grinders. They are easy to use.
Another suggestion I will tell customers that do not want to paint vertical surfaces with epoxy. Take a color sample of your epoxy to the paint store and have them match the color for you. The wall will not be as shiny and you will not be able to flake it, but for color continuity its been a good answer for some people.
Good luck with your project!
 
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aavgerinos

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Thanks for the tips and tricks.

How long should I wait before I patch and epoxy over the newly poured concrete strips? I hear 4 weeks is standard for a new slab. Does that hold true for small bits of concrete as well?

If I use an epoxy based patch kit then I presume the same delay applies. Is that right? Or can I patch and fill cracks first, wait until the proper drying time is reached, and then epoxy the entire floor?
 
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aavgerinos

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Poway, California
For a solvent diluted epoxy system, does it matter what time of day I apply the first coat? It's a single coat system, but I'm using two kits, and then applying a clear coat.

It's getting pretty warm here in San Diego and so I presume the best method will be to apply the first coat in the evening as the concrete and ambient air is cooling. That way there should be less of a chance of the concrete outgasing. I'll check the epoxy kit temperature when I start, but I'm guessing it will be in the low to mid 80s.

Night time temperatures are only getting down into the mid 60's this week, so I'm thinking I should be able to apply a second coat the following morning as long as the first coat is dry/cured. Rustoleum instructions say a recoat window of 16-72 hours when temperatures are above 70 degrees.

I purchased a set of strap-on spiked shoes just in case I need to walk out on the floor when it's wet. However, if I follow Rustoleum's application suggestion, I'm guessing I won't need them. They suggest coating a section at a time and then tossing the flakes onto that section. Then move to a new section.

My biggest concern about adding flakes in sections is the possibility of showing artificial seam lines. Then again, if the warm weather continues I might have to go this route as the floor might be partially cured by the time I get back to add flakes.

What do you think?
 
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