Epoxy floor disaster

[runracer]

Hey all, first post.

Went to build the garage of my dreams, and having done epoxy floors in the past, I did my homework when shopping for a contractor. Saw his past work, got references, made sure his proposal was suitable for auto use, etc.

Existing slab was in decent shape, ~4k sf. Was formally used for storage, so no oil or grease issues. Poured in the early 80s, no moisture barrier present underneath it.

Contractor grinded the surface, patched all cracks and defects, applied a moisture mitigating primer (standard practice according to him), a self leveling epoxy coat, and then a urethane top coat. Looked just great.

Fast forward two months, and small bubbles are starting to form all over the place.

Contractor comes over, pops some bubbles and finds evidence of moisture in them. The base concrete also was pulling up with these bubbles, suggesting very good primer adhesion.

He then tells me that this is due to hydro-static pressure under the slab from a fluctuating water table, causing water vapor to migrate up, get trapped under the epoxy, and start lifting it.

He then says that such cause is not covered under his warranty, since it is an "act of God."

Ouch.

However, he then tells me that at no cost he would be willing to remove the existing epoxy and apply a standard primer with urethane top coat, under the premise that such a combo would breathe, allowing water vapor to escape.

He predicts the bubbling will get worse, eventually they will crack, and the areas will peel. Basically an epoxy floor nightmare, just what I was trying to avoid with my due diligence.

Lifts and modular work stations are all already installed, so all that would need to be pulled out to redo.

While I am glad he is willing to try to mitigate, ultimately I would be getting a lesser grade floor with no refund.

A) is fluctuating hydro-static pressure something he should have discovered before putting down the floor? He says there is no way to test for that.

B) will a primer and urethane combo provide a "breathable" surface?

Thanks for reading.

Ron

 

[benwah]

Pics?

 

[mvrk10256]

Well normally you do the "tape a plastic bag to the floor" trick to check for that.


Basically tape a garbage bag down with duct tape to the floor and leave it overnight. IF there is moisture on the underside of the bag you have an issue. (this is obviously done beforehand).

A. A real professional would have checked all this out before doing the work.
B. Not a ******* clue.

 

[Armorpoxy]

In our opinion this is another problem waiting to happen. The foolproof treatment is to grind off the epoxy and apply something like our Armorpoxy Densifier or Acrylic Sealer which, unlike a 'coating' absorb into the floor and seal it, but allow it to breathe.

Our Prep-Crete Division just completed a fire house in NJ where they had this exact problem and for over 30 years they could get nothing to stick due to hydrostatic pressure. The old floor had become so bad from different coatings and repairs it was dangerous to the fireman and a severe safety hazard, not to mention that they couldn't use the facility for any social or fundraising activities.

We grinded it all off to make the repairs, and sealed it and they are thrilled. While some expected oil stains remained from the fire apparatus leaking over the years, now the floor is safe, not slippery, and easy to clean which may be the best you can expect with a high moisture floor.

 

[runracer]

Well normally you do the "tape a plastic bag to the floor" trick to check for that.

They did that and there was no evidence of moisture on the bags. They said that is why there is no foolproof way to detect hydrostatic pressure, it is not always there, it is dependent on water table movement.

In our opinion this is another problem waiting to happen. The foolproof treatment is to grind off the epoxy and apply something like our Armorpoxy Densifier or Acrylic Sealer which, unlike a 'coating' absorb into the floor and seal it, but allow it to breathe.

Interesting. Are either of those products tinted? Can you get them to "shine" like an epoxy floor? Or are you stuck with a polished concrete look?

 

[Garage Flooring]

Interesting dilemma.

If I were a contractor and I was doing a moisture test, I would do a calcium chloride test or buy the electronic testing kits.... But that's just me.

Densifier and a conditioner is a good way to protect the concrete. It has no aesthetic value and no you don't tint it. Acrylics do come tinted, the issue you will have with acrylics is they are a maintenance product and automotive fluids will break them down.

I would get product data sheets on the products they are suggestion, call the manufacturer direct and see what they say.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Testing for moisture is a novel idea. Unfortunately, moisture can be intermittent. Here today and not tomorrow.

After a while you know the signs, anything subterranean, white spots, musty smell, etc... The small percentage that gives no sign are the ones that get you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Armorpoxy]

Absolutely correct, moisture testing can only test at that particular moment, so if the water table or outside conditions change the readings could be very different at different times. Its just a snapshot.

Also it's very difficult to get a proper moisture reading even with a calcium chloride test in an unconditioned space like a garage.

 

[thegarageguy]

The solution doesn't make sense. If a moisture mitigator failed, then regular primer will as well.

Unfortunately, "waterproofing" primers are not foolproof and have limitations in amount of hydrostatic pressure it can handle.

We once did a 15k sqft project, had the spec changed because we found high elevations of moisture, applied the system they spec'd and approx. 1 year later it began to blister. Thankfully through my own testing, I found out that it was not only moisture in the slab but adverse minerals as well, making it a contaminated slab and rendering the moisture barrier useless.

It's tough to work with an organic compound like concrete. You may be better off just grinding and polishing your slab

 

[APEowner]

Is there anything that you can do with the lot to control the pressure? I had an issue with water pushing up through the basement floor in my NY house and I eventually corrected it with new downspouts, grading changes and a perimeter drain system.