Epoxy Floor - Quote

[Mordi]

Yesterday, I had a guy who does residential and commercial epoxy floors, come over to my house for an estimate to do my 400 sq ft garage. This guy was recommended by a local coatings company who said he does very good work (no affiliation with the company). He said he mostly uses products from General Polymers, but also indicated, he would be open to use products from another company, if I had a preference. Seemed to be a good guy. He quoted me $5.00 per sq ft and that included both diamond griding and acid etching the floor, cleaning the slab with an environmental friendly cleaner (safe for the runoff on my driveway), checking ph level and adjusting to 7-9, applying self priming epoxy and acrylic flakes (granite look), applying two coats of Graffiti-Max Urethane, all footings/stem walls to have epoxy flake and urethane. Total time needed for the project is 5 days.

I questioned him about the epoxy he uses. He said it was not 100% solids and said that he has never had a failure with the product. He likes the product because it is easy to use, has a long pot life and he gets excellent results. He said that if I wanted a product with 100% solids, no problem , but it would cost $6.00 per sq ft. (He said that the pot life is much shorter for the 100% solids product and the cost of the materials is more). He also stated that he still give the same warranty of 10 years on either product. He said "it's all in the prep".

Any comments/suggestions? - Should I take a chance with the product that is not 100% solids

Thanks,
Mordi

 

[Jabberwalk]

I don't understand why someone would diamond grind, then acid etch the floor. It's redundant. I would ask to see floors he has done for others and if you are comfortable with their experiences - go for it.

 

[Fuller]

Yeah, I invested in the whole diamond grinding setup to get away from acid etching. I can't imagine why you would do both - you may want to clarify that with him. I have no problem with 100% solid epoxy pot life btw. The price is typical for someone who can do it right and guarantee it.

 

[thegarageguy]

why acid etch if your gonna grind???? but hey, if the guy comes highly recommended and he has a decent portfolio and good refferals than let him acid etch, grind and shotblast it.

One thing I would ask is if he rolls it on our he pours and spreads with squeeges. You get better coverage that way. Remember that a rolled on floor is about 400 sqft per gallon(paper thin), a poured on floor spread rate is 150-200 per sqft. More than double.

A rolled on floor will not cover the imperfections of the slab, ie trowel marks and cracks.

Also, is it a full broadcast flake floor??

Both the amount of chemical and amount of flakes greatly determine quality, durability and price.

Good Luck!!

 

[WolverineCoatings]

applying self priming epoxy

This is a fancy was to say, 'I'm gonna skimp and not use primer'...

I think you've got to dig a bit deeper here. For instance, what do you actually get for the money? How much does prep cost? How many mils (thickness) of bodycoat will be applied? How many pounds of flakes? How thick of a clear to seal the flakes?

And, when you question the mils, you might have to find out how many gallons will be used for X amount of square feet and what is the solids of the products he plans to use. We can help you determine the rest.

In the meantime, I'd get some more quotes.

Why use primer?
When you pigment and fill an epoxy it becomes more viscous (thicker). When it becomes thicker it can't penetrate the pours of the concrete as well... therefore... decreases the adhesion. Think of it like pancake batter. When you add the flour (filler) to the water/milk it gets thicker. Obviously, the water would penetrate the concrete much better than the pancake batter. So, you want to use a 100% solids epoxy primer that is not pimented or filled (it's just a clear primer). You want epoxy over other chemistries because (in general) epoxies have better adhesion than other polymers of the same cost. While there are some modified systems that can offer similar adhesion results, they become very expensive to just 'equal' the results of epoxies.

What is 100% Solids?
100% solids is just a way to say that nothing evaporates from the product (like water or solvent).

My thoughts on solvent/waterbased systems:
I would caution you on using a water-based product. In general, these products are weak and leave a micro porous surface. In addition to having weak adhesive properties, the surface is more susceptible to dirt and failure. Those products are typically about 50% water. So, if you spread out a coat at about 10 mils thick it will only be 5 mils thick when it dries. Basically, you can expect 50% of what you spread to evaporate. Yikes! Just like anything else, when you lose 50% of your mass... you shrink (which stresses the film). But, the worst part is that as the water evaporates and makes its way to the surface it leaves a trail (micro pour) to the surface. Each one of these millions of micro pours is a cavity for dirt, oil/chemicals, and bacteria to attack the film. The same phenomenon will also happen with solvent-based products. However, it is much less prevalent because solvents evaporate much more quickly than water. Since a greater percentage of the solvent evaporates (as compared to water) before film formation of the coating, the coating can “re-wet” itself and fill in the trail. The pours are created once film formation starts and the coating is not liquid enough to fill in the pour. I would MAKE SURE that the coatings you use DO NOT contain ANY solvent or water!

 

[Mordi]

Thanks to all who haven taken time to provide comments - I really appreciate the help

Regarding doing both the acid etching and diamond grinding, the installer stated that although it may be overkill, he has been doing it this way for sometime and has never had a floor fail. My guess is that he would be reluctant to change his process - given his success with this technique. He also said that he would broadcast as much flake as I like.

I did manage to get the product data sheet on the Grafitti -Max Urethane. 2 coats are required. It states it is chmically reisistant to acids formed from sulfuric and nitrous oxides, alkalis and washing solutions and impervious to salt conditions of coastal regions. Abrasion resistance is considered excellent (7 mg/1000 taber ). It also states that it is 72% solids by volume. and coverage is 1150 sq ft/gal @ 1 mil dry. Recommended film thickness per coat is 3-5 mils dry (5-7 wet). Recommended film thickness total is 4-8 mils dry.

I am also going to try and get some info on the 100% epoxy he uses. I also will find out if he rolls the epoxy or uses a squegee.

Thanks,
Mordi

 

[Hammerdown]

My $.02- Grinding the floor creates a strong mechanical profile and allow more surface area for epoxy to bond to. Acid washing the floor should neutralize the alkalinity of the concrete and reduce the PH levels, helping ensure a proper bond.