Epoxy garage floor bubbles - BDC 3300

[wesuri]

Hi Garage Journal Flooring people!
Yesterday I had the BDC 3300 – Cylcoaliphatic Epoxy laid down in my garage.
The contractors prepared the floor by sanding, cleaning (w/ TSP) then Acid Etch and we let it dry for a few days until it passed moisture test.
(location is southern California LA area)

I know the instructions say 4 days to cure, but I am noticing little bubbles throughout the entire floor. Is this typical? Does it go away? Was it applied incorrectly?

IMG_5084 by wesuri, on Flickr

[/url]IMG_5084 by wesuri, on Flickr[/IMG]

IMG_5083 by wesuri, on Flickr

IMG_5078 by wesuri, on Flickr

IMG_5025 by wesuri, on Flickr

Can someone please confirm the photos are showing?

 

[willbrown82]

Photos are showing for me. Can't help with the problem though.

 

[wesuri]

Photos are showing for me. Can't help with the problem though.

Thanks for the feedback,... hopefully someone on this board has experience with this issue... If I can learn about the root cause, I can hopefully come up with a good countermeasure.

Im just worried when I sweep / clean the floor, the bubbles will create 'anti-skid' like surface making it difficult to clean.

 

[benwah]

*Typically* we do not top coat Cycloaliphatic Amine Epoxies, as they are usually installed in immersion service applications for fuel and crude oil storage, chemical containment and waste-water treatment. They have excellent chemical resistance, that is for sure. It looks like you possibly put a clear on top of this? I can't tell.

Cycloaliphatic epoxies usually take longer to cure than your standard floor epoxy.. How thick did you build this up and how long did it cure at what degrees before you put a clear (urethane?) over it? Did you perform a pH test? Did you mix for 3-4 minutes with an electric mixer?

 

[wesuri]

No urethane over it,. its just Part A BDC 3300 epoxy, with hardener (part B)
It was applied around 75 degrees.

I am starting to think there is a reaction with the acid from etching... as far as thickness, im not 100% sure. maybe 1.5mm thick. The mix was by hand,.

It appears to look like there is clear because its still not cured when I took these pics.
Thank you for the help!

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

Might these bubbles be caused by off gassing of the concrete?

 

[NitroShark]

Looks to me that since the "bubbles" are in the Can that the mixing was way too fast and aggressive.

Not sure what your manufacture data sheets recommend but my coating system said- Do Not agitate too fast..it would cause bubbling

Check your data sheets for mixing recommendations...


Shawn

 

[NitroShark]

Also..... again not your manufacture but this is from My data sheets....


AMBIENT HUMIDITY: Humidity must be below 80%. Application of the coating above the maximum recommended dry film thickness or at relative humidities above 80% may cause bubbles to form in the cured film.


Shawn

 

[rburke65]

One comment is...'did you mix with 3 to 4 minutes with an electric mixer?' ..... And the answer was ' I mixed by hand'...... Then ....'it looks by the bubbles in the can it was mixed way too fast'...... Too fast by hand??? This is why an epoxy floor is WAY TOO COPLICATED ..... In my opinion. You have to be a weather man, chemical engineer, a concretelab analysts, a certified, qualified, installer, have some "extra" money that ya don't know on what to spend it, plus your labor, all without a guarantee of a final result. This forum is full of great results, but also **** results of epoxy flooring. I think ....I'm going to pass.

 

[benwah]

I would suggest calling the manufacturer tomorrow.. Maybe they will have a solution for you.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

One comment is...'did you mix with 3 to 4 minutes with an electric mixer?' ..... And the answer was ' I mixed by hand'...... Then ....'it looks by the bubbles in the can it was mixed way too fast'...... Too fast by hand??? This is why an epoxy floor is WAY TOO COPLICATED ..... In my opinion. You have to be a weather man, chemical engineer, a concretelab analysts, a certified, qualified, installer, have some "extra" money that ya don't know on what to spend it, plus your labor, all without a guarantee of a final result. This forum is full of great results, but also **** results of epoxy flooring. I think ....I'm going to pass.

Rburke65:
Your reaction to this gent's issue is completely justified. It does appear scary and complex. However, it bears repeating, that 99% of epoxy issues hit this forum.

I doubt even 1% of the success stories make it here. DIY complete jobs everyday with great success and they move along in their lives. They rarely come back to the flooring forum.

Folks with issues want to know why or perhaps they are seeking retribution or just want to vent. It is completely human nature to do so.

Therefore, take what you see here with a grain of salt.

 

[thegarageguy]

looks like dirt or debris....could be from using cheap rollers...the lint from a delaminating roller cover can cause this

 

[thegarageguy]

One comment is...'did you mix with 3 to 4 minutes with an electric mixer?' ..... And the answer was ' I mixed by hand'...... Then ....'it looks by the bubbles in the can it was mixed way too fast'...... Too fast by hand??? This is why an epoxy floor is WAY TOO COPLICATED ..... In my opinion. You have to be a weather man, chemical engineer, a concretelab analysts, a certified, qualified, installer, have some "extra" money that ya don't know on what to spend it, plus your labor, all without a guarantee of a final result. This forum is full of great results, but also **** results of epoxy flooring. I think ....I'm going to pass.

Listen, we've been installing these flooring systems for 12 years and counting. We install 3 to 5 jobs per week and we still get weird things happening to us. Imagine how pissed I get when the manufacturer asks me an asinine question, like, "did you prime?". " Did you mix correctly?" We do this day in day out and I can tell you it's a **** shoot. From getting expired material, poorly stored material, mislabeled material, a change in raw material suppliers changes the characteristics, humidity, sun hits it and bubbles, insect and animal intrusion, as well as homeowner and trades walking on it. A contaminated slab causing fish eyes or eventually blisters. Color or pigment doesn't blend, man I can go on and on...I can write a book on this ****....welcome to my world rburke65

 

[wesuri]

Rburke65:
Your reaction to this gent's issue is completely justified. It does appear scary and complex. However, it bears repeating, that 99% of epoxy issues hit this forum.

I doubt even 1% of the success stories make it here. DIY complete jobs everyday with great success and they move along in their lives. They rarely come back to the flooring forum.

Folks with issues want to know why or perhaps they are seeking retribution or just want to vent. It is completely human nature to do so.

Therefore, take what you see here with a grain of salt.

Great information guys. Like I mentioned earlier, this forum is a great resource.
The hardener was shaken vigorously before mixing with the epoxy.

Looks like the guys that did the epoxy did not pH balance the concrete before application. it was suggested by the manufacturer that they should have used baking soda to neutralize the floor before application....

time to make some phone calls

Thanks everyone!

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

Great information guys. Like I mentioned earlier, this forum is a great resource.
The hardener was shaken vigorously before mixing with the epoxy.

Looks like the guys that did the epoxy did not pH balance the concrete before application. it was suggested by the manufacturer that they should have used baking soda to neutralize the floor before application....

time to make some phone calls

Thanks everyone!

Thank you for posting your situation here in the forum. I hope you provide follow-up details for how this turns out. While this is a big issue for your new floor, it's also a great learning tool in the forum. I sincerely hope you get a resolution that makes you happy.

 

[Shea]

The hardener was shaken vigorously before mixing with the epoxy.

Wow... Really? You don't mix hardener like your making a martini for James Bond. The air trapped in there didn't help when mixed in with the resin. That's just asking for problems.

 

[brownbagg]

i had that problem before too, roller was too nappy, went down to 1/4 nap