Epoxy in home - a few issues...

[CellarDoor]

Hello All - I had been lurking on this site before doing our epoxy job, our job is a bit different then here since we aren't actually putting it in our garage....we put it in our living space. We have a single story, concrete floor modern ranch home in Phoenix. We had an existing epoxy floor through 60-70% of the house that was put down by a previous owner and had exposed original concrete throughout the rest.

Long story short we wanted a nice solid neutral gray color that we could accent with our furniture, carpet tiles, etc (we have lots of white/grays in our house with pops of color). We did LOTS of prep this weekend and laid down the epoxy (we went with 100% solid from Muscle Gloss) this weekend. It is about 1300 sq ft of space total, everything went pretty well. We checked it the next morning and most of it had seemed to have cured, although parts of bathroom, hall and pantry closet still took a nail into it and made a finger print. We didn't worry too much till that night and it was still the same. I should add that we have pretty ideal conditions here right now for curing, day time temps are in the 80s, it's bone dry, etc.

When I contacted Muscle Gloss they said it must have been a mixing issue. It does seem that part of that batch cured with no problems while other parts did not. Other batches had no problem at all. We mixed each bath the same and as directed but it's possible I was rushing and did not mix as well as i should as I was worried about introducing air into the mix.

Muscle Gloss recommended a recoat in the bad areas. We decided to do a 2nd coat over the entire floor so I ordered enough product to cover everything again. We will scratch/scuff surface and re-apply a slightly thinner coat then original.

*First question: Does anyone see any issues with Muscle Gloss recommendations or our steps to recoat?

* Second question: Last night was the first time we really walked on the floor, we are living in a 200 sq ft section of the house that is not part of this area (boy will that be fun another week while we wait for 2nd coat). First thing I noticed when walking on the floor is how easily it scratches, not scratches like gouges but just surface scratches that get picked up by the light. We had a dog walk on it and dance around a bit, moved a very light chair across it and everything scratched the hell out of it. These are surface light scratches, like swirl marks you would see on car. Is this normal? I was under the impression it would scratch, but only when something heavy was aggressively dragged across the floor.

So on to what to do about scratches once top coat is on. I read about urethane but not sure if that will be overkill for a living space that just get some light foot traffic from two people and some pets living in the space. Is there a polymer type top coat (like a wax or floor finish) that we can put on the epoxy to help keep scratches off the epoxy surface? We have a 10 inch Oreck floor buffer so I can maintain a floor finish with that every few months if it needs it.

I was not planning on putting anything on top of the epoxy but now it seems I need to or its going to look like **** really fast. The high gloss really shows the scratches.

Thanks for everyone's helped, I learned lots on this forum but apparently I didn't read and research enough because now we are kind of in a pickle. If it was just our garage it would not be as big a deal, but this mostly our entire house, bathrooms, bedrooms, etc. so it has become somewhat stressful.

 

[Garage Flooring]

I would tend to agree with what they said the problem is. Most of the time with a 2-part epoxy, that is the case. I know we tell people to scrape up to uncured product.

Do you have a clear top coat on this floor?

 

[CellarDoor]

I would tend to agree with what they said the problem is. Most of the time with a 2-part epoxy, that is the case. I know we tell people to scrape up to uncured product.

Do you have a clear top coat on this floor?

No clear top coat on the floor. I wasn't made very comfortable that it was needed to get the floor we wanted. The only product they offered for a clear top coat was some kind of UV protective coat (it might have been urethane but it did not describe itself as urethane).

They did not recommend scraping it up but I am wondering if it should be. It is somewhat patchy where it is not fully cured compared to where it is cured. It's not "gooey" soft, it seems hard when you run your hand against it lightly but any pressure shows that it is still somewhat soft. Will another coat not cure over the top if this is not fully cured?

 

[Garage Flooring]

No clear top coat on the floor. I wasn't made very comfortable that it was needed to get the floor we wanted. The only product they offered for a clear top coat was some kind of UV protective coat (it might have been urethane but it did not describe itself as urethane).

They did not recommend scraping it up but I am wondering if it should be. It is somewhat patchy where it is not fully cured compared to where it is cured. It's not "gooey" soft, it seems hard when you run your hand against it lightly but any pressure shows that it is still somewhat soft. Will another coat not cure over the top if this is not fully cured?

I would verify with them. We do have some products where we can 'activate' the cure process of a bad coat by coating again.

Typically, the clear coat, provides the finish you are looking for.

Did you grind or etch your floor?

 

[CellarDoor]

I would verify with them. We do have some products where we can 'activate' the cure process of a bad coat by coating again.

Typically, the clear coat, provides the finish you are looking for.

Did you grind or etch your floor?

Thanks for the help. I was afraid of the clear coat answer (to get clear coat coverage for our 1300 sq ft I think we are looking at the price of the epoxy plus $$).

Has anyone had any success with just maintaining an acrylic floor finish type of product (like a wax) over epoxy? Something I could re-apply and high speed buff occasionally. The spread rates for those products are much higher.

We ended up grinding the bare concrete floors sections and then cleaned, the existing epoxy floor covering we aggressively sanded with 60 grit (36 grit in some spots) with an industrial floor sander/buffer and then degreased, rinses, cleaned, etc. For what it is worth the problem areas tend to be on the existing epoxy coating, BUT other areas of that same floor cured and look great. The problem seems to be with the intial pour of one of the buckets/batches - we remembered where we started a batch and the first bit of that batch in spots are where the problems are.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

First, coating over uncured epoxy is a crapshoot.

Urethane is the way, a pigmented urethane would have been ideal.

Lastly, a good polymeric wax will help protect against scratching and will revive an older epoxy floor coating.

Link: http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/hd-7960-polymer-coating-wax-p-219.html

 

[CellarDoor]

First, coating over uncured epoxy is a crapshoot.

Urethane is the way, a pigmented urethane would have been ideal.

Lastly, a good polymeric wax will help protect against scratching and will revive an older epoxy floor coating.

Link: http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/hd-7960-polymer-coating-wax-p-219.html

Thanks for the link. That wax is kind of what I was thinking of (now that $$$ has already been invested in the epoxy and looking for an ok solution) It sounds like urethane is maybe what I should have gone with originally......sigh.

The company is really not telling me much, first when I described the problem the only mention was that "sounds like you will need to recoat the effected areas - scuff/sand first". I mentioned something about scraping earlier and then it was " you will have to sand and MAY have to scrap uncured epoxy " -WTF? Yesterday it was just need to recoat before I mentioned scraping. You would think they would want to give me the best advice possible (unless of course they just want me to keep complaining and buying more product).

Will putting new coat over not properly cured section just result in two coats of goop? What is the process for properly scraping and prepping for new coat? Besides the mess of scraping the one problem I see if that the uncured sections are a patch work, 10 sq ft of this bathroom, 20 sq ft of this hallway, etc, so if I DO have to scrape what is the best way to tell and isolate. The other issue is going to be cutting in new coat, if I scrape off first coat I only ordered enough (and batched it accordingly - larger batches) I will have to lay on this thicker or do two coats just in this section (which is pretty much impossible when I need to mix both large batches to recoat the entire floor)

FWIW - I already got a MUCH better mixing blade for this time around

 

[Motofixxer]

Mine took much longer to cure than the suggested times. I was really worried at first but it did harden good after about a week. Much of the scratches you likely see are really in the glossy finish. Anything glossy will show scratches. That's about all I can add for now

 

[AlphaGarage]

If most of the floor cured, but other parts didn't, odds are it was a mix issue - or more precisely an under-mix issue.

We would not recommend that you simply re-coat any area where the underlying coat did not properly cure. One problem that can arise is that the uncured epoxy may "leach" the chemicals it lacks from the over coat, causing it to fail also.

Best to remove all traces of the not fully cured epoxy and then coat over that area with a fresh batch of thoroughly mixed epoxy. To remove the gooey stuff I'd use a putty knife & denatured alcohol.

A polyurethane clear coat will be much more abrasion resistant than epoxy.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Ditto, except I would use xylene vs. denatured alcohol.
More aggressive.

 

[AlphaGarage]

True, xylene is more aggressive, but it's also more toxic (able to cause nerve damage) and unpleasant to deal with. Most of our coating contractors use xylene, but they're trained in proper handling, have ventilation equipment etc.

Denatured alcohol will take a few minutes longer to get the same work done, but is a far more benign chemical.

 

[CellarDoor]

Thanks everyone, based on the suggestion here we are going to scrape he uncured stuff, after a check last night it's really only two sections, one is a small pantry, the other is one corner of a bath. It's not much more than 25 sq ft total so we are going to scrape (do I just saturate the surface with the alcohol?) and clean up and possibly grind to ensure nothing is still on the surface.

I have a small batch coming to lay down on those two sections as a NEW base to make sure all is good before we lay down a second coat over the entire floor.

Just to ensure I am doing everything I possible can for success what is the recommended prep for a 2nd coat? Light sand with 120 grit, vacuum, any sort of wipe down needed (water or some other solution)? There has be some light traffic on it this week but for the most part we are trying to stay off it. Am i missing anything?

 

[CellarDoor]

One last thing, it's getting pretty warm here in AZ (supposed to be 90 this weekend), we plan on keeping product inside and keeping interior as cool as we can (prob mid 60s at best). We are mixing/spreading two large kits and are really going to need all of the 30 min work time.

I read something about cooling product even further by storing in ice water, does this even work and if so are their any negatives?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Get it out of the mixing bucket and on the floor asap.
Store it in a cool place until go time.

Not your refrigerator!

 

[Shea]

Just to ensure I am doing everything I possible can for success what is the recommended prep for a 2nd coat? Light sand with 120 grit, vacuum, any sort of wipe down needed (water or some other solution)? There has be some light traffic on it this week but for the most part we are trying to stay off it. Am i missing anything?

Wipe it down with denatured alcohol after you vacuum. After that you are ready to go.

 

[Bad Idea]

I read something about cooling product even further by storing in ice water, does this even work and if so are their any negatives?

If you cool it down too much, some epoxies will not flow nicely and it can lead to coverage problems or aesthetic issues. Check the manufacturer's literature to see the install temperature range.

I am glad you decided to scrape up the uncured stuff. I have seen many undermixed floors, and they can lead to tiny volcanos of uncured resin months down the road.

Also, like Legacy said, get the mixed material out of the bucket and onto the floor as quick as you can. Be mindful of your roller getting to sticky due to curing material. You can always swap to a new roller if you notice the material on the roller cover starting to cure.