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Epoxy repairs to rotten header.

kidcampbell71

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Oct 28, 2014
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Well .. looks like I'll be delving into this topic shortly. Storage building is basically a one car garage, gable roof .. 16' by 16 footprint'. Water has intruded from lack of flashing over the garage door header. Tear down has so far exposed a limited amount of rot .. on its double stacked 2" by 12" main header "sandwich" .. with its interior sandwiching 3/4" plywood.

Will know extent of rot .. when left side of garage door .. 4' siding wall is stripped to the studs. Picture day, when that happens.

Question is : Experience in epoxy repair for rotted wood ?

No what ifs ..or what you heard .. just tell me what you did, & area size repaired. If further inspection reveals further rot .. I'll end up tearing out the 16' long header. I'm by myself .. so hoping that's NOT the case.

I've used plenty of epoxy in plastic repairs thru the years, but never on wood. This is evidently "a thing" in regards to modern home repair. My rotted area thus far is about 3" high on the 2" by 12" by 16' header .. & about 4" long. Also .. the rot is not over the garage door span. Its laying on the top sill plate .. of the structure wall .. not as bad, but clearly not good, either.

I have access to steel plate & will likely crib the epoxied repair .. way past its repair point. For comfort & peace of mind.

I'm installing concrete fiber panel, with an OSB backer .. as I go around the building .. so the structure itself will be alot stronger than its previous cardboard pressed wood panel.
 
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38 Dodge Coupe

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I have successfully used expoxy to patch water damage rot in window sills and porch railings. I have not used it to repair damage on what would be considered structural component. I would probably replace the beam, but that's just me.
 
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kidcampbell71

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Thanks for the reply, 38 Dodge Coupe .. replacement is my first choice, but it likely won't happen if the damage is limited.

How is the repair holding up ? In the weather obviously still .. what did you use ? What was your prep work ? Do you like the end result still today ?

I'm working solo & tearing it down to replace would mean removing a CJ7 from its interior that's currently torn down for a rebuild .. not to mention the collection of NOS 1970 Ford Torino parts, & engine/drivetrain pieces to be moved. To do it right, I'd have to jack the roof trusses up .. to tear all that out. Meaning a more empty structure to maneuver within.

Hence all the information supplied in the first post of the thread. Figured already in regards to opinions over what others would do. I just can't empty thousands of dollars of parts, with nowhere to put them. As well, current measurements show literally no movement in the structure. As a laser level shows no sag.

So for me .. a little wall reframing & epoxy repair will be what this thread will show. I'll take pictures once I tear down the side wall paneling. We shall see.

Thanks again !
 
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driftpin

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I considered doing some epoxy or fiberglass repair to an 'eyebrow' fascia over a French door pair on my house (the roof 'eyebrow' extends over the door opening, farther-than the rest of the roof on the same side), but after tearing it open, I decided to remove the fascia and to replace it with primed/painted 1" X 12" white pine boards. That's what was there, except I'm going to paint all-sides of the 1" X 12" boards before hanging them.

One of the GJ readers suggested Hardie-Board in-place of the 1" X 12".

Being structural, I would probably remove/replace the beam. Hire some help to get it up-there.
 

Bretny

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If it's structural replace the whole thing. An epoxy repair is only visual to me.

Supporting the wall 2ft away from the rotted header and removing, reinstalling a new one properly isn't to hard of a job. With some planing it could even be a one man job.

Do you have any pictures of the garage from the inside?
 

wrenchguy

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If it's structural replace the whole thing. An epoxy repair is only visual to me.

Supporting the wall 2ft away from the rotted header and removing, reinstalling a new one properly isn't to hard of a job. With some planing it could even be a one man job.

Do you have any pictures of the garage from the inside?

This, easypeasy if gable end.
 

kd3pc

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pictures...please..

and epoxy on wood is only as good as the wood, structurally speaking. Purely cosmetic.

You will need to address the water intrusion issue, else this is an adventure in awaiting more damage to the newly shiny epoxy. Now you have epoxy holding moisture in place.
 

ard

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I did some extensive repairs on a cable end, down at the soffit, where there was a large amount of wood trim. I replaced everting I could (priming and paining all 6 sides of every piece BEFORE installing it. Then nailing/screwing, caulking, repairing.

But there were pieces I couldn’t remove without massive impacts. Nothing structural per se.... like the barge rafter out at the ‘end’ of the cable, or part of the tails.

I used two types of epoxy: first remove any unstable wood. Hand wire brush to dig out the powdered wood, tools, etc. Then a ‘water ;liquid’ epoxy, that soaks into the wood fibers. It has no build, but all it does is stabilize the existing wood. Then a putty consistency epoxy to fill in. This took 2-3 applications to get full build (there was probably a thicker product I could have used). I then sanded this down to get back to original dimensions.

I have pictures somewhere, will look later....

(Edit. This was done at the end of a California summer, in September. So 4 months since the last rain, about 30-40 days of 100+ temps. Nice and dry, not a spot of water anywhere. (Except sweat)
 

fourbyford

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I agree with this ^^
A header is a structural framing member. In this case, if it fails, your roof fails. Epoxy might make it look ok, but will do nothing for the strength. In my mind, the problem is that it's hard to know just how bad the damage really is. If it were mine, I'd replace it. I also agree that this job could be done without emptying out the entire garage... and by one person. I dont think this is what you want to hear, but you asked for opinions!
Which ever way you go, I hope it works for you!

...D
 

fourbyford

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Come to think of it, I used epoxy to repair several areas of our porch railing last summer... as we were having the house painted. Similar to the job described above... a liquid that penetrates the wood to stabilize it followed by a two part epoxy putty. Worked well enough for the mainly cosmetic job I needed. Having said that, my hope is the repaired railings will last another 18 - 24 months until I can replace them!

.. D
 
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ard

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An epoxy repair on rotted wood isn't a structural repair. Tear it out and do it right.

Seems silly to waste time and money when (if) it isnt NECESSARY.

If it is a 'structural' member, then I agree epoxy cannot be a structural repair.

But if the member in question isnt in a 'structural' application why is a structural repair even necessary?

In fact, properly using epoxy can indeed be the way to 'do it right'.
 

PugetDude

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Seems silly to waste time and money when (if) it isnt NECESSARY.

If it is a 'structural' member, then I agree epoxy cannot be a structural repair.

But if the member in question isnt in a 'structural' application why is a structural repair even necessary?

In fact, properly using epoxy can indeed be the way to 'do it right'.

Let's see some pictures. Need to see where the rot is and how far it goes. If there are 2 2X's and a piece of plywood laminated together who knows what the inside looks like? Waterstains, termite tubes, dry rot, sagging?
Pics will tell the story.
 

Bretny

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Seems silly to waste time and money when (if) it isnt NECESSARY.

If it is a 'structural' member, then I agree epoxy cannot be a structural repair.

But if the member in question isnt in a 'structural' application why is a structural repair even necessary?

In fact, properly using epoxy can indeed be the way to 'do it right'.

What part of a header is not structural?
 

Jackfre

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I think you will find out if it is structural when the door begins to have problems. Are there any problems with it now? I think, jack up the rafters. Drop a poly sheet to keep the interior contents clean and do the replacement of the header. It is a weekend job. Oh, and pics of the cars.
 
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kidcampbell71

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Aww' man. Great answers, guys .. got busy this week .. but today .. something happened ! Ha.

Don't want to get ahead of myself .. and no thread can be without pictures .. but I'm tired. Pictures tomorrow. Got started late, and tore out the rotted pressed board exterior paneling .. at 2pm .. to discover half rotten sill plate & top sill. Oh brother. Now a short daylight emergency !

The header rot was from the lack of Z flashing at the top of the old exterior masonite panels. It had allowed the water to flood the left garage door wall. So small chunk of rotten header, ran into half the 4' top sill & finally half the lower 4' sill plate.

Picked up my stud lumber, a sheet of OSB tech shield & then bought 21° framing nails instead of 30° .. of course, I didnt know that yet. I would have to run back to the Depot to exchange them .. to keep my framing nailer happy.

The garage shed corners were double stack studs, with another set of double stack studs in the center of the rotten left garage door wall. Strangely the garage door frame itself, only had one stud upright, with the back side .. edge nailed to the garage door track frame 2" by 8" support board. WTH ? A really chintzy deal. Was baffling at the least.

I started by cutting out 20" of the top sill and 20" of the lower sill plate .. along with the one stud that amazingly held up the garage door track support board for 30 plus years. :wtf::wtf::wtf:

I fixed that, of course. Scabbed in the top sill 20" with new .. and double stacked that portion of the top sill plate. Lower sill plate got the same double stack treatment. I still have to drill new leg anchors into the concrete pad .. but I'll do that next week.

The garage door frame got a triple stud like the right side did .. and I went ahead nailed the garage door track support 2" by 8" board well into it. The garage door track is going nowhere, now. :beer:

Quick note :

When you hang cement Hardie panel or similar. You can't edge nail it. You have to nail it 2" from the cement panel edge. So if you guys ever choose to use cement board .. remember to double stack your lumber. So you have enough room to coil nail your panel. Otherwise it will chip out the edge and ruin the whole panel. Breaks very easily. :lol_hitti

Cement board 4' by 8' panel will be hung once I get these repairs done .. but that's later.. I don't look forward to it. Sh*t is heavy .. and again, I'm working solo. It is what it is.

I tackled the rotted header last. I've been researching beam saves, header repairs, epoxy beam salvage .. whatever I could type into the search bar. I lucked out really .. and found a post Bob Villa era This Old House episode .. with a repair known as a "dutch repair". I remembered the phrase used in Barn Builders .. the log frame salvage guys on Discovery .. so I got on track to what I was going to do.

The rot could be covered by a 2" by 4" piece of stud lumber. So I cut a piece longer than the rotted area & traced the repair .. about 18" of the 16' span .. to be cut and then wood chiseled. I chose a 1/2" paddle bit and drilled 4 holes at each corner. Then set the depth on my circular saw and made 2 of the 3 cuts needed to extract my soon to be patched area.

I couldn't cut the line going into my freshly framed left garage door wall .. so this is where my combination rasp/chisels came into play. Made sure they were sharp & let the mini 5 lb sledge hammer do most of the work. On a ladder its hella' fun !!

Once the perimeter was separated .. I cleaned everything out with air .. and wiped it with acetone. My adhesive of choice was not epoxy .. it was Liquid Nails Heavy Duty .. and it was applied liberally. I wanted it to seep out the perimeter. I clamped it in .. and got the ring shank nailer to nail it in permanently.

Pretty impressed with it .. to be honest. The patch had to be friction fit with the same mini sledge. It fit perfectly snug. I mean perfect. Very tight fit. The perimeter seeped as wanted .. and after nailing .. I wiped it flush & clean.

Have to add .. that the rot in the double thickness 2" by 12" 16 foot long header was the outer exterior board only .. as well as seated on the edge of the top sill left side garage wall. If your rot is center of header .. above a long span garage door .. while I wouldn't say no to a dutch repair there .. for sure evaluate your span & area of rot to be cut out.

I'll be honest .. if my rot was center of header .. and still working alone .. I wouldn't hesitate to cut out the lower 2 by 4 patch .. but go the 8 foot distance of the garage door to install a 10 foot plus 2" by 4" dutch repair. Of course I would completely support the inner intact 2" by 12" header with some dead man studs. You'd have to bridge the span onto your sill plate transitions.

I know everyone wants to say "the only way to do it, is to do it right". Sure !! Whether you choose to rip out the outer layer of header & fully replace it is up to you. I fixed my rot "right". With the time available & the fun to be had with a ring shank nailed 2 by 12 .. trying to pry & separate without damage/splitting my interior 2 by 12 header .. I chose to pass on that sh*show. :thumbup:

This area I live in is nice .. but we have had a recent string of late night thievery .. so as the sun went down on me .. I literally just got done nailing on the OSB tech shield to secure my garage wall. The mad dash of "oh sh*t what have I done" had to be completed the same day it was ripped open. I should've started earlier .. but didn't .. so oh well.

I took some pictures of the basics but as I got into it .. had definitely missed the framing details. I'll post the progress tomorrow. Being how the thread title alludes to an epoxy repair .. I'm thinking the "dutch repair" is the focus, anyway.

At present, I'm going to shower off rat turds and saw dust so not to inhale it at dinner. Have a good night !
 
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kidcampbell71

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Okay .. so here's the pictures .. that I tried to document .. until I accidentally short timed my repair time window. Obviously, I didn't take as many pictures, as I would have liked.

You'll get the idea, of what I did though. For me the header repair .. was what I wanted information on. Disregard me not documenting cutting out the sill plates .. & sistering studs .. & double stacking scab repaired sills & top sills.

The building will be an ongoing rehabilitation of sorts .. with the gable being attacked next .. while I go around the entire structure.

The header has all been renailed.. it's full length .. after the rot was cut out & repaired in the discussion above. I'm happy with what I did .. & delved into many similar repairs before my attempt at same.

I reframed and flashed the garage door jamb with 2" by 8"s .. . and plan on building a rafter tail style .. 2' matching roof shingle .. garage door canopy .. the length of the garage door. Likely with an 8" over run .. each side of the garage door .. to further attempts at keeping the garage door jamb & header dry for decades to come.

In any event .. this thread is done .. but the garage structure is not. Lol. Enjoy .. & Merry Christmas ! :)
 

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Bert_

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For what you got it's good enough. That header isn't holding up any real weight anyhow since it's on the gable end.
 

dogdog

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I am not sure if it would fit structural repair or what not... few weeks ago I was looking at amazon for their two part wood rot epoxy (epoxy specifically design to penetrate into wood and harden it).. end up with a whole hour wasted about them pushing prime on me... so it's either the one from Total boat or HD off the shelf wood hardener...

So I ended up using this since it is more convenient available locally that I don't have to deal with shipping and UPS/USPS/FEDEX......


these two I have used end up the same thing, same price, same smell (voc) and dried with same result on my beams that have been rotting... I still have to sister and re-enforce it.. but at least it stop the rotting further..


https://www.lowes.com/pd/Minwax-Wood-Hardener-16-fl-oz-Clear-Wood-Filler/1000447109

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Varathane-16-oz-Wood-Hardener-340229/305626727
 

wrenchguy

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yep good enough.... get that gable triangle taken care of and shedding rainfall without z channel. I'd figure a overlaped seam. Spring rains coming!
 
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