Epoxy the good, the bad, the ugly

[LegacyIndustrial]

Gang:
I have noticed a turn against epoxy on the board lately.
I have a vested interest in this product, so take this with a grain of salt...

However, epoxy flooring has been used in manufacturing facilities since the 1930's. It is an excellent covering to an imperfect substrate: concrete

It is used in nearly every food manufacturing, beverage, pharmaceutical and chemical plant in the world!!

Concrete is porous, weak (at the surface), subject to cracking, spalling, bacteria proliferation, etc...

Epoxy solves all these ills in exchange for a few conditions:
No moisture, surface weakness, oils/silicones/animal fats or substrate movement.

A well prepared substrate that is coated with a penetrative primer, base coat and protective urethane topcoat is a formidable opponent to solvents, abrasion, wash-down, chem spills, etc....

Naturally, there are different levels of epoxy systems as conditions escalate. However, a basic tri-coat system will fair you well in a standard garage and I mean a garage with jack-stands, pump-jacks, wrench turning, wood-working, sweeping, brake jobs, engine spills, grinding and even light welding if the work is done on a raised platform.

Well, again this has been a big part of my career and I am proud to recommend it for most garage DIY applications and beyond. The key is prep and primer!!

Lastly, I invite my colleagues in the industry, satisfied DIY users and speculators to join in and speak the benefits of this material.

 

[T_Raven]

I've got about 1100 sq ft I'd love to do something with before I put all my equipment in, but after everything I've read it sound like anything worth doing would be too much to justify. If my options are leave it bare or spend $5000 them it's staying bare lol. I will be doing a lot of welding but I could leave a welding area bare or lay down welding blankets or something to protect the epoxy.

Any way I'll be interested to read what's brought up in this thread

 

[Shea]

I've put down quite a few epoxy floors and I never installed one without at least three coats. Primer, base coat and top coat. I always used a polyurethane color coat and top coat if I thought ambering might be a problem. I know of people who have had floors now for over 15 years without any issues. I only had two failures and neither was due to the epoxy system used. They were both due to a moisture issue caused by extreme hydrostatic pressure that developed over 2 years later. The epoxy on both floors pulled layers of the concrete up because it had bonded so well. Of course these floors were installed with high quality commercial epoxy.

With that in mind, there are circumstances when someone can't afford a nice epoxy system and has to settle for something less. That's why Rustoleum, Quikrete and the other epoxy paint products sell so well at the local home improvement centers or hardware store. A lot of these are purchased by the uninformed and end up not happy. These are OK only if you know what you are buying, because they will eventually fail or wear out in a few years or so. It all depends on the conditions and how they are used. Just don't confuse these with a good epoxy system. They are only about 3 mils thick once cured. 100% epoxy is 3 times that, minimum, for one coat as well as being a harder finish.

There are no wrong flooring choices in your own garage. You should put down what ever floats your boat and makes you happy. After all, that's why we are messing with our floors to begin with. It's not always the best choice depending on floor conditions and budgets, but thinking that epoxy isn't all that it's supposed to be is a misnomer. As Scotty said, a good tri-coat system is going handle more than what the average garage can dish out.

 

[Higgins]

To continue what Scotty said,

I did two epoxy floors for my own use and used the commercial Rustoleum products. These floors were done 10 & 12 yrs ago, and look fine today! My neighbor who ran a manufacturing plant used the same product and didn't show any signs of ware due to fork lifts or pallet jacks!

The epoxy product I used did not use a primer. However, the floor has to be clean, clean, clean. And if you think it's clean do it again!

Also, we were working with 4 colors, Grey, Red, White, Black. By now you can probably see where this is going! And it did take multiple coats per color

After 10 yrs, the floor still looks good! However, if your going to do any heavy welding, you sparks will create brown and black spots on the epoxy floor!

Since we did our floor, I've seen a lot of other Epoxy floors done. Some looked great, others, well they looked like the DIYr did them as did the final results.

All I can say is Read and Follow the directions to a "T", no if's and or butts!!!!! A big ALSO, do not push the lower temperature range when applying, as it will impact how well the product goes down and lasts. And the biggest thing is the prep work!!! The cement has to be C L E A N period. If you follow these few recommendations you will have a successful project.

I do have lots of pictures, but I'm not going thru the BS of photo bucket. Maybe I can figure how to change the pictures to images.............

I hope this helps some of you guys that have been sitting on the fence in doing this type of project! The end results will last for years, and is EASY for clean up! And my most favorite color out of all of this is """" WHITE """" Looks the best after 10 yrs!

AL

 

[kngelv]

Both the manufacturers and the purchaser figure into the problem. The buyer often has unrealistic expectations about what the product will do. This is often encouraged by the seller. The typical epoxy used in home garages is not a cure all, and will not hold up to repeated exposure of continuous welding, harsh solvents etc. In the interests of economy a buyer will often install the epoxy themselves, though they may not be qualified to do so. As many have stated it's all in the prep. People want instant results so they don't clean the floor well enough, make sure it's thoroughly dry, and the weather/temp conditions are optimal. The sellers tend to infer that "anyone" can install epoxy which just isn't true.

James

 

[dandan111]

Seems like tile is the new epoxy. Anyway my rustoleum epoxy changed my floor from a slick danger into a nice safe surface. On the primer debate,all manufactures should be responsible and warn that a primer should be used if they have had complaints.
Maybe adding the price of primer to a system is to costly to market? Seems like most of the sales teams recommend it but its never part of the kits.

 

[Jagmandave]

I ran a food plant for years, and had our floors done with Stonhard products, where they first shotpeened the floor to create a tooth, then lay down a 3/8" thick underlayment and floated that to a "still water" finish, then a coat of primer and 2 coats of top coat.

10 years on despite the best attempts of idiot fork truck drivers and uncaring employees, it still looked and performed great. Clean up was a breeze - and as you can imagine clean up in a food plant is considerably different than that in a garage - needing only a dust mop and maybe a wet mop daily in a few areas. We also had a Tennant floor cleaning machine that ran over the entire floor once a week with about the stiffest brushes they made for a more thorough cleanup.

All in all, when done right, it will hold up.

The biggest problem is of course the cost. It was over $36K to do about 3600 sq ft. - in 1998!

 

[bdamico]

Gang:
I have noticed a turn against epoxy on the board lately.
I have a vested interest in this product, so take this with a grain of salt...

I might disagree. I've noticed a drop in new flooring posts during the winter as temps drop (not everyone is in sunny warm florida like us). So there are less positive "just put down my incredible shiny new epoxy down" threads. So what you're left with are the threads on other flooring types and then epoxy complaint threads

 

[[email protected]]

I am on Currently on the fence of moving forward with an Epoxy job. Is there a brand you recommend, I was looking into Armor Clad, and after reading on this website Epoxy coat seems pretty popular, but some people have had issues. Also the Epoxy Coat Clear system seems to be a bit expensive is there another clear coat worth looking into?

Thank you

 

[KPSquared]

Legacy Industrial. . .you know. . .the company that started this post. . .

 

[Higgins]

There isn't an epoxy made that can withstand the constant slag from welding! So if your planing on welding, you just use a welding blanket or other non-compustable shild on the floor. Problem solved!!

As for the kits you purchase in the big box stores they are packaged to a "Price Point". I paid more for a gallon of the professional epoxy I used than the cost of one of these kits! So It's the age old "You get what you paid for"!

AL

 

[bdamico]

I am on Currently on the fence of moving forward with an Epoxy job. Is there a brand you recommend, I was looking into Armor Clad, and after reading on this website Epoxy coat seems pretty popular, but some people have had issues. Also the Epoxy Coat Clear system seems to be a bit expensive is there another clear coat worth looking into?

Thank you

 

[bdamico]

There isn't an epoxy made that can withstand the constant slag from welding! So if your planing on welding, you just use a welding blanket or other non-compustable shild on the floor. Problem solved!!

As for the kits you purchase in the big box stores they are packaged to a "Price Point". I paid more for a gallon of the professional epoxy I used than the cost of one of these kits! So It's the age old "You get what you paid for"!

AL

or tile your floor instead

 

[Dakota00]

Gang:
I have noticed a turn against epoxy on the board lately.
I have a vested interest in this product, so take this with a grain of salt...

However, epoxy flooring has been used in manufacturing facilities since the 1930's. It is an excellent covering to an imperfect substrate: concrete

It is used in nearly every food manufacturing, beverage, pharmaceutical and chemical plant in the world!!

Concrete is porous, weak (at the surface), subject to cracking, spalling, bacteria proliferation, etc...

Epoxy solves all these ills in exchange for a few conditions:
No moisture, surface weakness, oils/silicones/animal fats or substrate movement.

A well prepared substrate that is coated with a penetrative primer, base coat and protective urethane topcoat is a formidable opponent to solvents, abrasion, wash-down, chem spills, etc....

Naturally, there are different levels of epoxy systems as conditions escalate. However, a basic tri-coat system will fair you well in a standard garage and I mean a garage with jack-stands, pump-jacks, wrench turning, wood-working, sweeping, brake jobs, engine spills, grinding and even light welding if the work is done on a raised platform.

Well, again this has been a big part of my career and I am proud to recommend it for most garage DIY applications and beyond. The key is prep and primer!!

Lastly, I invite my colleagues in the industry, satisfied DIY users and speculators to join in and speak the benefits of this material.

And this commercial is brought to you by Legacy Industrial... I understand you make a living selling Epoxy products. I make my living installing tiles, I would never start a thread like this!! Poor taste...

 

[Cruzin90]

Well, there are various types of epoxies, some are better than others. Polyaspartic polyurea is now available and is better than some epoxies.

Not a DIY, but spray elastomers (polyurethane, polyurea, and hybrids) are options for concrete flooring.

Regarding welding slag: LINE-X XS-152 has delayed ignition. It will burn with extensive flame exposure but will self-extinguish when the flames are removed. LINE-X XS-252 is as step up form XS-152, it will not ignite.

 

[Higgins]

Now that is neat! Whish it was available 10 yrs ago!!!

I've just learned to be careful and everything is OK. I just have a couple of White squares that have brown freckles, not a big problem.

 

[Garage Flooring]

When you break the industry down as a whole, there are far more epoxy jobs done than anything else. As you have stated in the past 1/1000 happy customers post pictures where 1/10 upset customers take to the web (those are not scientific numbers and I am not saying the specific numbers are accurate, just making a point) so it makes sense that there are more people who will complaint about epoxy.

I have always believed that 90% of the problems with coatings are that we (the distributors and manufacturers) water down what needs to be done to the floor in terms of prep to make it more appealing. Guys like Scotty don't do that and I would imagine that's why its hard to find something bad written about him.

On the floors where prep was not the issue (and I include primer in this) some of it is cheap product being sold as epoxy that is really glorified paint and some of it is product failure and that 1 in 1,000 job where there is 'something else' wrong with the substrate.

BUT if you look at any other product they all have their issues too. I've been in this business for over a decade. For me, what it comes down to is this. There are no perfect products that are ideal for every job. My job is to talk to my customer and point them to a product that is best for them, even if it means point them towards my competition.

@Dakota00 We all walk the line. We all do it daily. Scotty will post 10 replies to a customer that has no intent of using his product. I do not think this was a commercial at all but a good way to start a conversation about the industry in general...

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

No links on this one, just a chat.

Good points by Justin and my friend in fl.

 

[KPSquared]

And this commercial is brought to you by Legacy Industrial... I understand you make a living selling Epoxy products. I make my living installing tiles, I would never start a thread like this!! Poor taste...

Scotty couldn't have been any more clear on his intentions. He stated his "vested interest" and he's not hiding behind a random user name that doesn't represent his company. He's upfront and honest. He's a regular participant and an invaluable contributor to this forum. This thread is far from "poor taste". . .

Its stuff like this that makes me want to support a company like Legacy. (If it weren't for my recent acquisition of a lot of tile I would have pulled the trigger on a Legacy order this spring)

And now back to our original programming. . .

 

[Hagasan7]

I agree with ^! The bottom line is... Do the research and that includes reading posts from vendors. What's really in poor taste is attempting to call someone out for no reason.

Scotty, I'll be contacting you shortly to discuss some coating options for my new garage.

 

[T_Raven]

And this commercial is brought to you by Legacy Industrial... I understand you make a living selling Epoxy products. I make my living installing tiles, I would never start a thread like this!! Poor taste...

Lol at this. He didn't say one negative thing about any other flooring or another brand of the same stuff he sells.

 

[Dakota00]

Lol at this. He didn't say one negative thing about any other flooring or another brand of the same stuff he sells.

You don't have to bad mouth any other flooring or brands. It's all in how it was worded. It's the point of bringing this thread to peoples attention to sway them from other flooring options because Scotty said "I have noticed a turn against epoxy on the board lately."

Then goes into detail about the benefits of Epoxy flooring. Funny, no where mentioned or goes into detail about the many hours and money spent to prepare and clean a floor. Even then, there's no guarantee if the Epoxy adheres. All that was said "The key is prep and primer!!"

But the last part of his thread is the icing on the cake. Requesting, all "pro" comments as to why Epoxy is so great.

"Lastly, I invite my colleagues in the industry, satisfied DIY users and speculators to join in and speak the benefits of this material."

This thread title should have been named "Epoxy the good, the better, and the best"

 

[P0234]

Like with any project, prep is key. IMO the sellers aren't as upfront about how much prep is required, and specifically how much work that prep is *.

You get George Garage Owner pushing all his stuff out of his garage Saturday morning, starts scrubbing the floor by noon. His wife expects him ready for dinner at 5. So he hurries and gets it good enough. Maybe even tries to put the first coat down on the "mostly dry" concrete.

I see this time and time again, people are just so hell bent on finishing a project that they just don't care. Their goal is to be done by X time, that is their measure of success. If the product fails, it wasn't their fault, it was a crappy product to begin with.

* And to be fair to the sellers, if they listed more prep work, people would go to their competition, selling the same product but claiming less prep is required.

 

[munkey]

You don't have to bad mouth any other flooring or brands. It's all in how it was worded. It's the point of bringing this thread to peoples attention to sway them from other flooring options because Scotty said "I have noticed a turn against epoxy on the board lately."

This is called "full disclosure". If he had tried to disguise his intentions, you (and others) would be complaining about his ulterior motives. If you aren't interested in discussing or reading about the merits and drawbacks of epoxy in this thread, then you are free to go create your own thread with a different topic. This is a topic about the good and bad of epoxy, as created by an epoxy vendor and stated clearly up front as such. Nobody is forcing you to read content that you aren't interested in.

If you don't think that vendors should be able to create such topics, then your beef is with the moderators and not with Scotty. As other have noted, he (and several others with "vested interests") earn their keep by regularly contributing solid generic information that isn't tied to a particular product.

Then goes into detail about the benefits of Epoxy flooring. Funny, no where mentioned or goes into detail about the many hours and money spent to prepare and clean a floor.

If you want a floor that lasts years (if not decades), you are going to invest time and money in it, period... that's just common sense and applies to more than just resinous/epoxy coatings. An accurate picture only emerges after dividing the prep hours and product and application expenses over the entire lifespan of the product. When you do this math correctly, the overall expense of doing many precision DIY (or professional) jobs is much less than re-doing a rush job every year or two.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

You don't have to bad mouth any other flooring or brands. It's all in how it was worded. It's the point of bringing this thread to peoples attention to sway them from other flooring options because Scotty said "I have noticed a turn against epoxy on the board lately."

Then goes into detail about the benefits of Epoxy flooring. Funny, no where mentioned or goes into detail about the many hours and money spent to prepare and clean a floor. Even then, there's no guarantee if the Epoxy adheres. All that was said "The key is prep and primer!!"

But the last part of his thread is the icing on the cake. Requesting, all "pro" comments as to why Epoxy is so great.

"Lastly, I invite my colleagues in the industry, satisfied DIY users and speculators to join in and speak the benefits of this material."

This thread title should have been named "Epoxy the good, the better, and the best"

Epoxy is an option. One of many out there.
I do like your post title but it's too late to change it.

 

[Dakota00]

This is called "full disclosure". If he had tried to disguise his intentions, you (and others) would be complaining about his ulterior motives. If you aren't interested in discussing or reading about the merits and drawbacks of epoxy in this thread, then you are free to go create your own thread with a different topic. This is a topic about the good and bad of epoxy, as created by an epoxy vendor and stated clearly up front as such. Nobody is forcing you to read content that you aren't interested in.

If you don't think that vendors should be able to create such topics, then your beef is with the moderators and not with Scotty. As other have noted, he (and several others with "vested interests") earn their keep by regularly contributing solid generic information that isn't tied to a particular product.


If you want a floor that lasts years (if not decades), you are going to invest time and money in it, period... that's just common sense and applies to more than just resinous/epoxy coatings. An accurate picture only emerges after dividing the prep hours and product and application expenses over the entire lifespan of the product. When you do this math correctly, the overall expense of doing many precision DIY (or professional) jobs is much less than re-doing a rush job every year or two.

I can sit here and debate with you but I'm done, it's not worth it. I've wasted enough time on this thread. You mentioned this topic is about the good and the bad of Epoxy. That's absolutely not true!

 

[Steves32]

I considered epoxy, I really did.
I think it's fine for those who don't work much in their garages.
My problem is- I weld, I grind, I'm hard on a floor. I even dropped a transmission on my floor.
Yea- I could cover it when I weld or grind but I know me. I wouldn't take the time to cover it & I'd damage the floor.
If I break a tile- I have extras & can replace a tile & no one would ever know but me. Damage an epoxy floor- there's no way to go back & seemlessly repair a spot w/o it sticking out like a sore thumb.

I think epoxy has it's place but it's limited in a working garage. Now if they came up w/ a high temp epoxy that could hold up to grinding, welding, etc- I would have considered it.


I did get a bid on some quartz stuff that went on real thick w/ a trowel- but he couldn't swear it would hold up to weld slag. And at 20 bucks a sq ft- it was too high priced to seriously consider.

 

[bd8134]

I weld, grind and drop heavy items on my epoxy floor and the damage is minimal but that is the least of my concerns. My son was grinding a metal bracket which we later welded and the vibration knocked the reasonable sized "American" drill press vice down which made a nice dent in a butcher block worktop. It then bounced on the floor. I looked for a bit for the damage in the epoxy but I could not find it. I am not that worried about it. I have some burn marks from 'balls' of red hot welded metal, but nothing has burnt through. If I get the urge sometimes I use a solvent to take the brown mark off, it is not then visible again. Grinding has no impact to the epoxy that I have seen. We were lowering a complete suspension from a car we were stripping and it fell about 4 feet. It actually chipped the concrete, it was about the size of half a penny, I was impressed.
I have not tried our used a tiled floor but I am very impressed the epoxy that I put down about 4 years ago.
The good points for epoxy over grouted or overlayed tile that I can see......
1. One continuous surface. Great for cleanup, winter snow, rain, grease etc
2. Feels warmer, great when laying on it or the grandchild plays there with bare feet.
3. Dropping a heavy item most likely will cause minimal damage to floor or item, ie beer glass etc.
4. Need to remove tiles where 2 post lift will go with tiles, people seem ok with trolley jacks, axle stands (I dont use a pad under my axle stands), 4 post lifts, etc, on tiles.

Disadvantage of epoxy over tiles of all sorts..
1. Preparation takes a lot of work for epoxy.
2. Possibly more expensive for epoxy, depends on which product etc.

Other people I am sure will have completely different opinions.
There are certain situations where tiles are the only solution without major expense. For me and my new garage build, if epoxy would not have been viable, I would have used some other type of coating or sealing product. Tiles would have been low on my list.

 

[munkey]

You mentioned this topic is about the good and the bad of Epoxy. That's absolutely not true!

I concede to your point here -- what I meant was, "the good and the bad" is what the creator of this thread chose as the subject line, and is thus a rough guideline as to where the conversation should be focused. Based on the subject line, you (and others) have a perfectly valid right to post about the negatives and drawbacks of epoxy in this thread, even if the OP didn't say so explicitly in his first post. I read your post as attacking the OP for even making a "pro-epoxy" thread in the first place (or his choice of wording in doing so), which I consider to be completely off topic.

This is only a technicality -- I would support your right to post such gripes in your own thread, although I am not a moderator and I don't speak for them.

 

[budl]

I am considering epoxy on the floor of a new garage I am building. I love the look but----------. I was involved with the construction of a new 120 X 100 aircraft hangar about 15 years ago and, of course, we put down an epoxy floor. My company was very picky about quality especially when it had anything to do with airplanes so we hired a very well repected company to do the floor for us and paid REALLY BIG BUCKS to have it done properly (I don't remember exactly how much). It came out looking like a mirror but was slicker than wet ice when it got damp. Had some sanded walkways put down and that kind of fixed that problem except when you weren't on them. Airplanes are heavier than cars but other than parking on them the floors didn't get much abuse. A few cracks showed up after several months but that was more of a slab problem. After 10 years the floor had enough tire stains and lifted areas that it required a redo. The sanded areas got dirty looking fairly quickly and wouldn't clean up. I guess my point is for the kind of money we spent I kind of expected an "eternal" floor considering the care it was given. As much as I want my man cave to look cool, I might choose a less expensive route and spend the extra $ on tools & lights & hot rods and stuff.

Bud

 

[ranchero7]

How does epoxy hold up long term on a radiant slab? Mine is at 75-80 in the winter (heated) and swings between 50-70 in the summer (unheated).
Steve