Epoxycoat: 18 month review

[gatchel]

OK. I have a question for the Pro's. I have been following this thread and also have an Epoxy Floor. I don't see this as a thread hijack as the OP also has the same tire marks and I didn't see any information regarding their appearance...

What causes them? I have an Epoxy floor with a Polyurea top coat? I am also seeing the same yellowish brown marks, similar to the OP's, where tires have been left sitting for a prolonged period of time. I thought that a polyurea topcoat was supposed to be the cats meow, or at least this was what I was told. These tire marks are not from hot tires. They are from moving a motorcycle around. Any thoughts? I haven't seen much as far as where the tire marks come from and was hoping others could provide some information of the subject.

 

[blackdart66]

I'm no pro but the cause almost has to be "oils" or something seeping out of the rubber.

I think the only way to prevent it is to park on something that will prevent that seepage from getting to your floor. 1' x 1' squares of just about anything. I think cardboard might even be enough.

 

[Shea]

OK. I have a question for the Pro's. I have been following this thread and also have an Epoxy Floor. I don't see this as a thread hijack as the OP also has the same tire marks and I didn't see any information regarding their appearance...

What causes them? I have an Epoxy floor with a Polyurea top coat? I am also seeing the same yellowish brown marks, similar to the OP's, where tires have been left sitting for a prolonged period of time. I thought that a polyurea topcoat was supposed to be the cats meow, or at least this was what I was told. These tire marks are not from hot tires. They are from moving a motorcycle around. Any thoughts? I haven't seen much as far as where the tire marks come from and was hoping others could provide some information of the subject.

The problem you are referring to is a result of plastizers in the tires. Many tire companies use plastizers to improve the flexibility of the tire compounds in order to improve traction. That is why high performance tires and some all season tires tend to stain more than other tires. A warm tire will relax the plastizers and can cause them to leach out onto the surface the tire is sitting on. That is why some people report of tires from one car leaving marks and the other doesn't. The denser the surface coating is, the less likely it will be stained permanently if not allowed to sit for and extended period.

While commercial grade high performance epoxy, polyurethanes, and polyurea top coats are very resistant to tire stains due to their high density of cross linking, I haven't yet come across a top coat that is impervious to tire stains if not cleaned up. Generally, if you clean your garage on a regular basis and treat any stains with a good cleaner, then you shouldn't have much of a problem. If you are planning on parking a vehicle for an extended period of time, it might be wise to have a small piece of cardboard under each tire.

 

[gatchel]

Got it. Thanks for the info.

So Ployurea topcoats aren't as invincible as they claim. Good to know for others that are considering this route.

Overall my floor looks great. If I had to do it all over again I would have gone a different route than a pseudo DIY coating.

The bike is now sitting on plywood scraps, a perfect example of why NOT to do a floor coating.

 

[gatchel]

Epoxy-Coat has been less than helpful in this situation. They are pretty much unresponsive to my questions about how the staining is caused. Last time I called in on the 15th they said they would get back to me...nothing yet. Christine is out apparently for some time. I would not recommend Epoxy-Coat based on their post sales response and support. Their pre-sales support was great. Go figure.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Epoxy-Coat has been less than helpful in this situation. They are pretty much unresponsive to my questions about how the staining is caused. Last time I called in on the 15th they said they would get back to me...nothing yet. Christine is out apparently for some time. I would not recommend Epoxy-Coat based on their post sales response and support. Their pre-sales support was great. Go figure.

Christine takes care of her customers. I find it hard to believe she isn't working with you on a solution or a response to your problem.

 

[KPSquared]

The more I read about epoxy the happier I am that I dont have it. Seems like a big investment for an unpredictable product.

 

[bullnerd]

The more I read about epoxy the happier I am that I dont have it. Seems like a big investment for an unpredictable product.

Ditto!

Just when I think it starts to sound good...another horror story.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

This is a repeat message. However, its worth repeating. We see very little of the hooray stories on this site as folks move along once they have completed a project without issue.

On the flip side, We see nearly every problem surface here as people seek reparation whether they did it right or wrong.

It's not right or wrong, it's reality.

 

[TAZracing]

I have used the LINE-X polyaspartx, it looks incredible. I have not been able to go back and look at the job, so Im wondering if anyone has seen this product in the long term. They claim, no yellowing, strong enough to handle fork lifts and heavy traffic. We installed this in a fraternity house; their party room. I'm just finishing up a 2500' shop and I really want to use this product. It's just the longevity that I'm concerned about. I have pics but not sure how to post them.

 

[gatchel]

Christine takes care of her customers. I find it hard to believe she isn't working with you on a solution or a response to your problem.

I think she is out now for some reason (they didn't say)but I have spoken to others there. (hopefully she is doing well)
Overall the company's follow up has been less than adequate regardless of who I have spoken to. Every time I called and was expecting a call back within a reasonable time frame which they dictated, I ended up calling them after more than that time expired.

So far they sent me a "patch kit" and said to use steel wool to see if the marks can be "sanded" away. Right now the marks can be sanded away for the most part. Then what do I do, mix a thimble-full to recoat the spot every time?

I am not moving forward even if they send me enough clear polyurea to recoat the whole garage until some one at epoxy coat can tell me why this happened with their product. I spent months researching and planning this install. Days prepping and making sure everything was perfect. The floor looks great overall. What pisses me off is that I can't park anything on it without worrying about tire marks showing up. There was some outgassing, they never mentioned how a primer might help prevent this. I guess I didn't research enough....

Ultimately, no matter how perfect the install is or was, the end result is that any company will allude to the fact that it was installer error, a mix problem, or something else, regardless of what they do to fix the problem.

This has turned in to a thread hijack which wasn't my intention. The OP mentioned tire marks and I thought it would be a good point to mention and also find a possible solution to. Sorry for the hijack...

 

[DB2]

I'll add in my experience...I have two garages with epoxy floors I DIY'd.

In the first, 3.5 yrs ago, I put down the full Wolverine/Alpha Garage system in a new 650 sq ft garage (Bond-tite primer, epoxy, Endurashield top coat with Supergrip).

In the second, 1.5 years ago I put down a single kit of Epoxy Coat and then a coat of Wolverine Endurashield on top, with the Supergrip/Sharkgrip mixed in. This is a 480 sq ft, 50 year old garage.

The garage with the Wolverine floor has held up staggering well - not a single spot has lifted, and the floor is amazingly resistant to scratching. It still looks brand-new, and I am working in it all weekend, every weekend. The one issue is that I did have the (apparently permanent) tire staining issue mentioned above...the remarks about plasticizers make a lot of sense as I let my 911 (with "sticky" summer tires) sit for a couple months. Lesson learned.

The garage with the EpoxyCoat base has also held up very well, with no lifting or other issues. However, I did manage though to scratch it through to the concrete when moving a metal table. I have not yet been able to visibly scratch the Wolverine floor.

I was pretty **** - and I mean really **** - about prep both times, and it seems to have paid off. I've talked to other guys who have had problems with their floors, and it's been clear to me that they didn't put in anywhere near the prep effort I did.

My only disappointment with the EpoxyCoat is that it is nowhere near as thick as the Wolverine system, and it didn't cover imperfections in the floor as well as I had expected after doing the first garage with Wolverine. That said, the EpoxyCoat was much cheaper - there is a relationship between thickness and cost (I'm not unhappy about it as I made the choice to go with a less expensive solution for the second garage).

I am very glad I put the Wolverine Endurashield polyurethane topcoat with Supergrip on the EpoxyCoat base, as I think this is a far better solution to anti-slip than broadcasting aluminum oxide, and adds some UV-resistance to prevent yellowing.

 

[AlphaGarage]

I'll add in my experience...I have two garages with epoxy floors I DIY'd.

In the first, 3.5 yrs ago, I put down the full Wolverine/Alpha Garage system in a new 650 sq ft garage (Bond-tite primer, epoxy, Endurashield top coat with Supergrip).

In the second, 1.5 years ago I put down a single kit of Epoxy Coat and then a coat of Wolverine Endurashield on top, with the Supergrip/Sharkgrip mixed in. This is a 480 sq ft, 50 year old garage.

The garage with the Wolverine floor has held up staggering well - not a single spot has lifted, and the floor is amazingly resistant to scratching. It still looks brand-new, and I am working in it all weekend, every weekend. The one issue is that I did have the (apparently permanent) tire staining issue mentioned above...the remarks about plasticizers make a lot of sense as I let my 911 (with "sticky" summer tires) sit for a couple months. Lesson learned.

The garage with the EpoxyCoat base has also held up very well, with no lifting or other issues. However, I did manage though to scratch it through to the concrete when moving a metal table. I have not yet been able to visibly scratch the Wolverine floor.

I was pretty **** - and I mean really **** - about prep both times, and it seems to have paid off. I've talked to other guys who have had problems with their floors, and it's been clear to me that they didn't put in anywhere near the prep effort I did.

My only disappointment with the EpoxyCoat is that it is nowhere near as thick as the Wolverine system, and it didn't cover imperfections in the floor as well as I had expected after doing the first garage with Wolverine. That said, the EpoxyCoat was much cheaper - there is a relationship between thickness and cost (I'm not unhappy about it as I made the choice to go with a less expensive solution for the second garage).

I am very glad I put the Wolverine Endurashield polyurethane topcoat with Supergrip on the EpoxyCoat base, as I think this is a far better solution to anti-slip than broadcasting aluminum oxide, and adds some UV-resistance to prevent yellowing.

Thank you for the update of your Wolverine system!

I need to echo what a few others have posted...

A good quality primer really is essential. We'd all like a simple, one step, solution, and chemists everywhere are working to develop one, but for now it's tough to formulate one coating that can do all things really well. A careful review of real world experiences shows that the main area where coated floors fail is at the point where the concrete and coating meet. Using a quality primer for that task will provide a solid base for the rest of the system.

As far as thickness of the coatings... all other things being equal a thicker finished coat will out perform a thinner one - but again that's if all the materials are identical. But in most situations that's not the case. Some primers are better than others, some top coats are better than others, ditto clear coats. A thin layer of a quality top coat can outperform a layer several times thicker of a poor top coat. Size matters, but so does quality. The safe solution is to use quality materials at the recommended thickness.

 

[77thor]

I would be curious if the floor had been done by professionals, would it have held up longer without all those issues.
Like they always say; "preparation is key"... and DIY'ers may or may not do the prep as well as the pro's.

Also, I may have missed it but could weather/climate be a factor with those issues??

 

[radchad3]

I would be curious if the floor had been done by professionals, would it have held up longer without all those issues.
Like they always say; "preparation is key"... and DIY'ers may or may not do the prep as well as the pro's.

Also, I may have missed it but could weather/climate be a factor with those issues??

I think it would be possible that the pros could have done something different. But I can tell you that I took extra time and beyond to properly prep then clean the surface before starting the project. I think probably the two most disappointing things in reading others response to this thread is that...

#1: I was never told/advised to use a primer. I would have gladly done that had I been instructed.

#2: I specifically mentioned I had a west facing garage and was told the clear top coat would be very resistant to UV yellowing. Again, it sounds like there are much better top coats that would withstand UV exposure much better than what I put down. That part is frustrating to me.

 

[Jsf721]

If the clear is UV the epoxy should be protected like the skin on a human wearing sun screen-Right?

Gang:
I hate to be a broken record but a good primer can help prevent adhesion issues as well as out-gassing problems.

Also... a good urethane topcoat will not yellow. However, the UV light will go through the clear and still change the epoxy. Naturally, if inside as recommended this may not happen, at least not as fast.

We sell and install these systems everyday with very few issues, if any.

 

[jdewolftx]

For those of us that are relatively new to this. What are some good primers to use with Epoxy-Coat? Most epoxy systems seem to discourage primers as this could decrease adhesion. Do you need to floor sand the primer before applying the epoxy layer? I agree that a vapor barrier is needed as you never know what will leach through.

 

[TAZracing]

For those of us that are relatively new to this. What are some good primers to use with Epoxy-Coat? Most epoxy systems seem to discourage primers as this could decrease adhesion. Do you need to floor sand the primer before applying the epoxy layer? I agree that a vapor barrier is needed as you never know what will leach through.

With my knowledge of coatings, I would say primers always help and sanding(mechanical bond) can never hurt! I have always looked for the most watery primer I can find; this basically equates to better penetration. And, always, no matter what, knock the top layer of concrete off with a dual action grinder! Just my 2 cents!

 

[Delly]

Man after reading this and doing a search now I'm a little worried about doing epoxy-coat. Anyone add to this?

 

[dcs Inc]

Prep of the concrete is everything. You must get a decent profile and an acid etch or "sanding" concrete just doesn't cut it. Spiral grind or shot blast is the only way to achieve a good profile.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

For those of us that are relatively new to this. What are some good primers to use with Epoxy-Coat? Most epoxy systems seem to discourage primers as this could decrease adhesion. Do you need to floor sand the primer before applying the epoxy layer? I agree that a vapor barrier is needed as you never know what will leach through.

Our primers are compatible with Epoxy-Coat and others:

http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/primer-coatings-c-22.html

Agree with others, good prep is the key.

 

[bullitt67]

Just when I finally made my decision to do the floor in epoxy, I had to go and click on this topic which now has me second guessing myself on the epoxy and switching to porcelain tile. To me it just doesn't seem worth investing all that time in getting the floor right to potentially wind up with some of the above listed problems.

 

[bdamico]

Just when I finally made my decision to do the floor in epoxy, I had to go and click on this topic which now has me second guessing myself on the epoxy and switching to porcelain tile. To me it just doesn't seem worth investing all that time in getting the floor right to potentially wind up with some of the above listed problems.

I don't think people should overract. If you want epoxy go for it -- but I have porcelain.

 

[rugerlady]

Again, People usually only post bad experiences, for the most part I do try to keep in touch with customers that have an issue. No epoxy is 100% UV resistant, this is no surprise. We do add alot of UV resistance into our product. If you still need any help, please call me.

 

[Kracin]

Man after reading this and doing a search now I'm a little worried about doing epoxy-coat. Anyone add to this?

ill be doing my garage soon in the house i just purchased, and i still think i'll go with an epoxy floor. no doubt not going to skimp on the prep, and i'll probably make sure to use a primer for sure.

although im not too worried about a small stain or two here and there, as long as the coating itself is still easy to keep and keep up i don't see an issue with tire marks from hot summer tires.

as long as the floor doesn't peel up or start holding onto things like grease and oil making it difficult to clean, then it won't matter to me.

 

[dmw319]

Again, People usually only post bad experiences, for the most part I do try to keep in touch with customers that have an issue. No epoxy is 100% UV resistant, this is no surprise. We do add alot of UV resistance into our product. If you still need any help, please call me.

would you reccomend using a primer? I am doing my floor with epoxy-coat this weekend.

 

[rugerlady]

It is not something that is necessary with our product. What kind of condition is your floor in? Call me and we can discuss in detail if you would like.

 

[Interex]

I've had my Epoxy-Coat floor down for 20 months and have had zero issues with it. I don't have a clear coat but it still shines the same as it did when I put it down on day 1. Acid etch with 2 gallons of muriatic acid at full strength, dried for 24 hours, apply per instructions, done!

No peeling, no staining, no uv ambering, no tire marks, nothing. Just a great looking floor. My only complaint - It's so shinny, I've got to sweep it almost as often as the hard surface flooring in my house to keep it clean!

 

[dmw319]

It is not something that is necessary with our product. What kind of condition is your floor in? Call me and we can discuss in detail if you would like.

Can you PM me your number? I have a few more questions in my other thread I just started. Thank you.

I've had my Epoxy-Coat floor down for 20 months and have had zero issues with it. I don't have a clear coat but it still shines the same as it did when I put it down on day 1. Acid etch with 2 gallons of muriatic acid at full strength, dried for 24 hours, apply per instructions, done!

No peeling, no staining, no uv ambering, no tire marks, nothing. Just a great looking floor. My only complaint - It's so shinny, I've got to sweep it almost as often as the hard surface flooring in my house to keep it clean!

Its shiny with no clear coat? Why would they sell a clear coat then? Hmm. Wonder if I could just skip the clear coat.

 

[mayday0017]

Clear coat isn't to provide shine, it adds UV protection and keeps the epoxy from chalking.... Now that said it does provide shine and makes it look pretty but the purpose is the UV protection.

 

[Interex]

Its shiny with no clear coat? Why would they sell a clear coat then? Hmm. Wonder if I could just skip the clear coat.

I would highly suggest you skip the clear coat. I was amazed at how great it looks without the clear. I'll take some current photos and post them up.

 

[dmw319]

I need UV protection, but I did not purchase a clear/top coat. Thanks for the help. I didnt mean to hijack the thread!

 

[dsmithwc04]

I've had my Epoxy-Coat floor down for 20 months and have had zero issues with it. I don't have a clear coat but it still shines the same as it did when I put it down on day 1. Acid etch with 2 gallons of muriatic acid at full strength, dried for 24 hours, apply per instructions, done!

No peeling, no staining, no uv ambering, no tire marks, nothing. Just a great looking floor. My only complaint - It's so shinny, I've got to sweep it almost as often as the hard surface flooring in my house to keep it clean!

So you didn't sand the floor? I am looking at this for my new garage (pad is 18 months old as construction has taken forever)

I was going to get the clear coat but if yours looks good maybe I will skip it. So you cleaned, acid-etched, and then coated?

 

[Quijote]

Damn. I was almost certain about epoxy and after reading this thread I am reconsidering. The other factor is that my slab just got poured 2 days ago. I have time in October, but I figured I would probably wait until spring to epoxy. But if I tile, I can't see why I couldn't do it in October. Tiling seems much more straightforward.

 

[Devildogs]

Whatever the required surface prep is , the manufacturer should be the expert and the source of data on how it should he done. You can't have brand loyalty with poor service. Sounds like a basic concept but I see folks ignoring it all the time.

 

[Armorpoxy]

Generally speaking epoxy and moisture are not friends so the slab should be dry. Normally a month is enough **** you must test first which is easy. Test using the sheet plastic tape down method.

Our Supratiles can be applied over virtually floor, and we also carry as a special item an epoxy that can be applied to new green concrete, call for details.

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

With many threads, including this one, I keep reading posts from the "pro primer" vs "no primer needed" folks. A primer product that soaks or wicks deeper into the concrete to seal and increase adhesion makes sense to me. This is one that I have been considering:

https://www.garagecoatings.com/stor...g-penetrative-epoxy-primer-sealer-1-5g-detail

4100 Clear Vapor Blocking Penetrative Epoxy Primer-Sealer from Versatile Building Products

The website says, "4100 Primer is a Clear two part epoxy primer and sealer designed to reduce moisture vapor emissions from concrete to acceptable levels for moisture and vapor sensitive floor systems and coatings. 4100 develops a tenacious bond to properly prepared surfaces and blocks the passage of moisture vapor. It is not uncommon for 4100 to reduce 15lbs of MVE down to 2lbs. 4100 is works so well that it will penetrate and cure within concrete even when applied under water. The system is applied easily by roller or squeegee without odors or flammability issues that could disrupt surrounding operations. 4100 Clear Epoxy provides a Wet Look and low MVT Floor Coating suitable for use below a wood, VCT or other type of non breathing floor system."

Though I must confess that I have had some bad experiences with primers on drywall and plaster walls. I used a name brand primer on a renovation project that I did. I cleaned the walls thoroughly by vacuum and damp rag. I tested it on the first room. It peeled. Then I came across a product called Zinsser Gardz, recommended by a professional painter. This product bonds tenaciously. Since then, Zinsser Gardz is all I use for drywall and plaster priming under quality topcoats. The point is that a great product can achieve great things.

I'm hoping to figure out the great epoxy product for my new garage floor coating install.