Equiptment Recommendation?

[tegguy]

Ok so this isn't garage related but I'm hoping this is still a good place to ask. In about a month my neighbor and I are going to do some landscaping work to include planting ~20 Palm trees and installing some french drains in the yard. We have decided to rent some equipment to make our lives easier and not kill ourselves in the process. I am trying to figure out what the best equipment will be. We've decided to get a sod cutter so we don't destroy all the grass and we're also going to get a power buggy (motorized wheel barrow) for moving rock and dirt around easy. The last piece of equipment is where I'm torn. Do I get a mini excavator or a trencher (would prefer to not get both due to costs) we need to dig about 250 ft of trench for the yard drainage, need to level out some areas in the yard, need to remove 3 trees in his yard (and allow for new ones so roots also), and we need to dig the holes for the new trees. We will be digging regular soil and some clay (nothing too bad)

Yes we could do this by hand but it'll probably only be 2 of us and we'd like to get it done in one weekend.

Should I go with the trencher or excavator? I'm leaning to the excavator due to the versatility, ability to help us move/load the drainage rock, and help dig the holes.

Right now the planned trench is 12" wide x 24" deep. It doesn't have to be 12" but from what I read it's recommend

 

[Scott r c]

A trencher will be too narrow of a ditch. Rent an excavator, just call ahead and make sure they have the bucket size you want.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Skip the trencher, most won't make a wide enough trench. Rent a backhoe or skid steer with an excavator attachment. Either would also be better than a power buggy.

 

[tegguy]

Skip the trencher, most won't make a wide enough trench. Rent a backhoe or skid steer with an excavator attachment. Either would also be better than a power buggy.

The skid steer and backhoe will destroy more of the sod, would be hard to fit through some areas, and the local rent place doesn't have any small backhoes. Is there a problem with the power buggies?

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

The skid steer and backhoe will destroy more of the sod, would be hard to fit through some areas, and the local rent place doesn't have any small backhoes. Is there a problem with the power buggies?

No problem with the buggy other than labor to load it.
A tracked skid steer won't tear up the grass any more than a trencher or excavator would.
If you need something small see if they have something like a Toro Dingo with digging and hauling attachments.

 

[tegguy]

No problem with the buggy other than labor to load it.
A tracked skid steer won't tear up the grass any more than a trencher or excavator would.
If you need something small see if they have something like a Toro Dingo with digging and hauling attachments.

My thought was once we finish trenching use the excavator to help load the power buggy. We were going to use the sod cutter to remove the sod only in the areas we are going to dig to try to save as much of it as possible. The rental location near us has a decent selection but not everything.

 

[mechanic217]

I would lean towards a mini excavator for what you have described, just take a good look and make sure you have swing room for the boom. Be sure and contact Dig-Safe or whoever is in your area before you start, don't want to really wreck that weekend.

 

[gravelydude]

Do you guys have any experience with an excavator or backhoe? There is a pretty good learning curve with this stuff. Some people pick it up right away. Others...... See if they will let you try the unit at the yard. If available, I would get a small backhoe/front-end loader. Terramite or small Kubota are good examples. This will make it much easier to load dirt and rocks; and you won't need the motorized wheel barrow (which seems pretty worthless to me). Loading a power wheel barrow with an excavator sounds like a good plot for a comedy movie. The front end loader would be easy peasy. You might want to try a different rental yard.

Jack

 

[tegguy]

I have experience with this type of equipment my father was a heavy equipment mechanic when I was growing up so I spent a fair amount of time around these.

Why does loading a power wheel barrow with an excavator sound like a comedy movie plot?

I will look at the Terramite but I think there would be a lot of shuffling around. I was counting on the 90 degree pivot of the boom arm to dig close to the fence and with the terramite I can still do that but moving along the fence would be a lot of back and fourth. Also at 177" long might be hard to maneuver around the property (especially my neighbors) I guess I should clarify there aren't huge lots only about 1/3 acre and his backyard isn't huge. I've thought about getting a small skid steer but the cost is too high to justify I think cause I'd still need the excavator.

 

[tegguy]

Hiring a crew to plant 20 trees plus all the drainage would put us around 4000 more than if we did it ourselves and that price is if we found 2 different companies to do it hiring just one was astronomical. Doing this over a 3 day weekend so we get the equipment fri,sat, and sun for a 1 day charge

 

[tegguy]

Probably 2-3 days but they'd do everything by hand

 

[tegguy]

Ducksface.....

I know where you're going and I know it might be ambitious but we have a few things going for us. We're going to start on Thursday (we'll pick up the sod cutter and return Friday) and get stuff done. We're going to do prep work (hand digging the areas we have to) the week or 2 prior. If we don't finish in 4 days it's not a big deal as long as we get everything done we need to with the equipment (which I don't think will be an issue). Honestly my initial number for hiring someone was probably high if they got to it it could probably be 1-2 days.

Most of what we're doing should be fairly easy digging.

There is more than just the money aspect for not hiring someone. I like the sense of pride by doing something myself and if I don't know how to do something I love to learn how to do it and for me just getting in there is the best way.

 

[tegguy]

OK.
Keep us posted.

Will do and feel free to call me crazy if you wish........

 

[gravelydude]

Teg,

We're all a little crazy. Nothing wrong with that. My whole point was that a small backhoe/loader would do the same work as the excavator and power-barrow. Using the excavator to load the power wheelbarrow is limited by the size of the bucket and the finesse of the operator. Also is two steps instead of one with the loader. Loader bucket would be much bigger, and faster and easier to load and dump. Ducksface makes a good point about an experienced crew. My BIL is a landscaper, and his guys are the machines. He has a Bobcat, but rarely uses it on small jobs. Bottom line - it's your job. Do it the way you feel comfortable. You will have the pride in knowing that you did it. I think that's why most of us are here.

Jack

 

[tegguy]

Jack,

Thank you. I've debating trying to get a backhoe and excavator instead of the power bucket that way we could be even more productive the problem is the whole distance thing the nearest backhoe is 30+ miles away and we're having them deliver so I'd have to bug them to see if they'd deliver from that location. I've debated not getting an excavator at all too if I got the backhoe. We're also going to be moving dirt from the trench to the disposal area and that was the other thought for the power buggy cause only having the backhoe wouldn't help. So many options I'm not sure what is going to be best

 

[gravelydude]

With small backhoe/loader unit, you can move a lot of dirt with the loader bucket. I don't really see why you would need the power barrow. Maybe I.m not seeing something?

Jack

 

[tegguy]

Gravely If I'm diging a trench with the arm on that guy I can't put the dirt in the front bucket to get it out of the yard

 

[gravelydude]

You dig with the backhoe, and put it in a pile, and scoop up the pile with the front end loader when it gets big enough. That's how I do it with my Struck MagnaTrac, which is similar sized, but has tracks. It goes rather quickly once you get in the groove.

Jack

 

[tegguy]

I'll consider it gravely sounds like it'd make a bigger mess I'll talk to the guy I'm splitting this with and see what he would like to do. I'll also get my dad's since he's been around this equipment for a long time

 

[trackwelder]

Nothing wrong with using a trencher to install drainage. I worked for a landscaper and we used a trencher on a ton of drainage jobs. We would run the sod cutter first then use the trencher with a couple of guys on wheel barrows taking some of the soil. The trencher would dig five feet deep and 8 inches wide. We used a builders level and stick to insure a nice slope from start to finish. Only time we used an excavator was on new construction jobs or when the entire lawn was scheduled to be revamped.

 

[tegguy]

Nothing wrong with using a trencher to install drainage. I worked for a landscaper and we used a trencher on a ton of drainage jobs. We would run the sod cutter first then use the trencher with a couple of guys on wheel barrows taking some of the soil. The trencher would dig five feet deep and 8 inches wide. We used a builders level and stick to insure a nice slope from start to finish. Only time we used an excavator was on new construction jobs or when the entire lawn was scheduled to be revamped.

Trackwelder..... Was it just easier to use the trencher or what was the reason for not using the excavator? It seems like it'd be more back breaking and take longer to use a trencher (if I was paying someone I'd expect them to use a trencher or hand dig).

 

[trackwelder]

We used the trencher to minimize the damage to the lawn. We would put clean washed stone in the trench, plastic drain pipe with the sock installed over it, followed by weed barrier fabric and top soil. Some finish raking and the sod was rolled back out. How do you plan to build your drain system?

 

[tegguy]

Basically dig the trench, landscape fabroc, small layer of limestone, sock covered pipe, more limestone, wrap the fabric, sod.

All this will tie into the existing system. The previous installer our builder hired did a cheap job and didn't put any gravel in but put sand in so I'll take it out and redo it while I'm at it

 

[trackwelder]

Basically dig the trench, landscape fabroc, small layer of limestone, sock covered pipe, more limestone, wrap the fabric, sod.

All this will tie into the existing system. The previous installer our builder hired did a cheap job and didn't put any gravel in but put sand in so I'll take it out and redo it while I'm at it

Sounds like you have a good plan. Quite a bit of work but worth it in the end. Good luck!!!

 

[tegguy]

Thanks trackwelder

 

[gtcs]

We have 2 ride on trenchers at our shop, both have 12" attachments on the chain. The ditch witch 3700 also has an excavator arm. Just another option for you.

I just used a really small mini excavator in my yard and the learning curve is pretty steep with these things. I have run a lot of equipment for work and the mini ex and the minimini as we call it, are the hardest for me to use.

 

[tegguy]

2 more questions..... 1) I wasn't going to use any sand I was just going to use rock up to 4" below the surface and then soil after that. Is there going to be any issue with this? We have some clay in our soil currently.

2) Would there be any issue with digging 12 or 16" instead of 24" to save some money on rock? If we did 12 then I'd have 8" of rock (if I leave 4" for soil) and with 16 I'd have 12" of rock.