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Erosion control with concrete rubble

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bluedog225

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Jan 31, 2012
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Texas
I’ve got an old shed that’s about to fall down. No loss. About 25’x25‘. Underneath it is the worst concrete slab I’ve ever encountered. It’s heaved and split into four pieces. There’s no rebar. There’s no chicken wire. There’s no wire mesh. There’s nothing.

I’m going to have a guy come in with a bobcat and bust it up. My question for you guys is whether or not I should take the concrete and dump it into a creek bed back in the woods.

Not really making a damn but slowing the water down. Is that a great idea or a stupid redneck idea? The creek is off in the woods so aesthetics aren’t really a problem. And when it rains good, I get a good flood through there. I think slowing the water down would be a good idea.

Seems better than the old cars and old tires my upstream neighbor has thrown into his creek. Just to give you a flavor for the neighborhood.

Thoughts and recommendations welcome.
 
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cuengineer

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As a professional engineer who has worked in erosion and sediment control for almost 50 years, I would caution you about putting broken up concrete in a creek. Even though it may seem like it is very similar to using riprap to slow down flows and reduce erosion, there are several issues that immediately come to mind. In most states, this material should be placed in a C&D landfill as regulatory agencies often consider placing it elsewhere as having an unapproved landfill. Also, it sounds like you are potentially placing the concrete in "Waters of the U.S." and/or "Waters of the State." either of which puts you at risk with US EPA and your state environmental agency. While it might be better than old cars/tires, it is likely unlawful and would put you at risk.
 
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PCustoms

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bluedog225 said:
Not really making a damn but slowing the water down. Is that a great idea or a stupid redneck idea? The creek is off in the woods so aesthetics aren’t really a problem.
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Well I was going to say stupid redneck idea, then I read this:

bluedog225 said:
Seems better than the old cars and old tires my upstream neighbor has thrown into his creek. Just to give you a flavor for the neighborhood.
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Throw it in a low spot somewhere and cover it. If you've got a flood control issue address that separately with an engineer.
 
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loganb

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Omaha, NE
One of the last things you want to do is get in the crosshairs of the EPA for messing with a waterway. Around a culvert of a ditch along a road....sure. A stream or creek that flows water...don't even think about it
 
OP
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bluedog225

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Ok guys. I appreciate the input. We may be be thinking of different things when I say creek. It’s a dry drainage. And when it rains a lot, which is rarely, water comes through.

I’m quite confident there will be no issues with either the EPA or waterway laws, at the local, state, or federal level. But nonetheless, as a regulatory guy myself, you have given good and proper advice.

Burying it isn’t a bad idea either. Though awfully similar in terms of environmental impact.

Setting aside regulatory concerns, I can’t think of any other downsides to placing clean rubble in the creek bed for erosion control.
 
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Fav Onefour

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MN cold and hot
We crush and grind big slabs fairly often. (Old cattle lots.)
Depending on grade size of the finished product, it can be great base or fill.
With big jobs they bring equipment on site. Smaller jobs we haul to the crusher. Patience is a requirement. Most of the crushers get dedicated to big projects for long runs. They don't take on small gigs until the big money makers are done.
 
J

jack stand

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Lakes Region Maine
bluedog225 said:
Ok guys. I appreciate the input. We may be be thinking of different things when I say creek. It’s a dry drainage. And when it rains a lot, which is rarely, water comes through.

I’m quite confident there will be no issues with either the EPA or waterway laws, at the local, state, or federal level. But nonetheless, as a regulatory guy myself, you have given good and proper advice.

Burying it isn’t a bad idea either. Though awfully similar in terms of environmental impact.

Setting aside regulatory concerns, I can’t think of any other downsides to placing clean rubble in the creek bed for erosion control.
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This.
If you can make it a consistent size of 4-6" it's as good as rock
Rip rap.
 
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finn

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The UP, God's country
Dump it in a creek or lake here and go directly to jail…. Or at least pay a hefty fine and remediation costs.

i have buried it when recontouring a hillside to reduce the grade for a lawn.
 
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Hank11

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Tennessee
I think hauling it off would be best, or involving a civil engineer to see if he can address your drainage issues while using the material on site.
 
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Fav Onefour

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niget2002 said:
Break it up into softball sized chunks. Sell on Etsy as "industrial art".
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No kidding. A friend over in a "Western Europe" country went to Berlin with a truck and trailer on 9 & 10 Nov. 89 and loaded everything they could. On their first trip, they managed to grab full height sections. I asked how it was possible to load those. They said people were caught up in the moment when sections fell. They did group lifts to load without machinery. On later trips they hauled smaller pieces with graffiti. That is some spendy concrete now.

@bluedog225 , Invite T.S. over to your place and take a couple pictures with her standing on the pad. The swifties would probably pay a fortune for chunks.
;)
 
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four.cycle

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^ I have seen instances where ephemeral draws were classified as "fish bearing habitat" by federal fisheries biologists. (Phelan Creek - FS Road #2180-010, Olympic National Forest)*
Unless you have clearance from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, putting ANYTHING into a moving body of water (or a place where water moved at some point in time) will most likely cause you undue stress and expense.


(* there were a couple others that were supposedly Class IV streams that were also classified "suitable habitat" on a project site up near Mosquito Meadows on the Gifford Pinchot National Forest, but that was back in the early 1990s and I can't remember the exact location.)



​

 
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428PI

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Peabody, KS
I had a concrete pile and a couple people were interested for erosion control but the problem was loading it and hauling it. I finally put it in my shelter belt next to old junk pile. Took probably 30 loads with my tractor. Had to cut a swath in shelter belt for road. Saw a picturesque water shed pond and one day it had concrete on bankment. Apparently someone complained and it was removed. A rural property west of me is for sale. 500k for 49 acres of pasture with trailer house and shed. Has concrete in water slough.
 
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alfadan

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Augusta, ks
Done all the time in Kansas. I have a draw out back that is full of building rubble from a refinery that was on my place that closed in 1913.
 
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