Ethernet to Gargage

[ducktapeguy]

I've searched for similar questions on this forum, but none have really answered my exact questions on running Ethernet wire to a detached garage.

Background - I have a detached 2+1 garage that I've run 1 1/2" conduit to from the house. Total length from point to point is probably around 100 ft. My main goal is to have wireless in the garage and backyard, 1-3 security cameras, and possibly TV. Also thinking of hooking up a garage computer for research and moving my Synology server there.

Question - I've run the conduit from the house to the corner of the garage, but I'm stuck on what to do now. Right now it's coming through stucco in an LB connector. I'm looking at 3 options

1) Should I run 2 CAT5e (1 Ethernet, 1 spare) to a switch or re-purposed router, and from there branch out to all my connections. This is what I'm thining, but I'm just not sure whether running everything through another switch (there's going to be one in the attic) is going to cause bandwith issues with the server and cameras out there

2) Run 5-6 cables out there, to a panel and use patch cords to run to all the devices directly back to the attic switch

3) Just run the cable directly to all the devices (about 5-6 cables). Any advantage to just having direct connection back to the main router? I'm assuming might be more reliable but I think having a panel in the garage is more flexible.

The conduit is already run and I have the box of cable

 

[jeffmoss26]

Option 1 would be my choice.
Run one or two cables and have a switch in the garage.

 

[Denwood]

Option 1 ish. Run all your CAT5 feeds and terminate in a small patch panel. Switches are often cascaded, and anything from the last few years will handle this automatically.

The typical setup would be to do a patch panel in your garage where all the CAT5 runs are terminated. Add a Gigabit switch at the patch panel and plug in as appropriate. No need to use a router...just buy an 8 port Gigabit switch.

 

[ABSTIFFGS]

Option 1 is how I have my garage done. I've run 1 outdoor cat 6 through a pipe from my basement switch in house to my garage. Put a Trendnet 8 port Gig switch in garage. Hooked computer to one port and wireless router set to AP mode for extra Wifi on another port. I connected third port to wire from house.

 

[Jazzman442]

Run several Cat 6. This is give you future speed increases. Also make sure you put several nylon cords in to run more. Cable is very cheap right now.

ABSTIFFGS has it right. Run it now you will be thankful later. You can never have enough cable. cable is / always faster than wireless.

 

[justsam]

Make the switch POE capable to power your cameras. Keep it out in the garage since there are normally cooling fans if they can deliver POE on multiple ports.

 

[Onewolf]

I'm running two shielded CAT6 cables (1 as spare) to my detached garage. I will install an ethernet switch and wireless access point in the detached garage.

 

[sr71]

option #1 switch + access point. BTW…. the access point I am referring to is connected to the switch via CAT5. you can get indoor and outdoor access points. I have one for the garage area and another for the pool / deck. They are both "wireless" but as noted wired via Cat5. * I say this because there are also range extenders that (are not hardwired)…. they wirelessly pickup a signal and boost it to give more range (I am not a fan)

 

[sandmann]

I have just done a version of option 1 on my new detached garage. 2-Cat5e cables with sonos cable for the speakers tied to the house system and one regular cable for TV.

The people doing all the low voltage stuff assured us this would handle everything we are doing now and would want to in the future, assuming for residential purpose of course.

 

[tprice14]

Make the switch POE capable to power your cameras. Keep it out in the garage since there are normally cooling fans if they can deliver POE on multiple ports.

This is the best answer yet. Run your Cat6 to a PoE switch. You are not going to face any bandwidth issues with this. Buy PoE cameras so you only have to run one wire (Date/Power) to each camera as opposed to two (Date + Power). Your synology should be able to manage these cameras from anywhere on your network as it does not require a physical connection from synology to camera.

Source: I've blue printed a 16 IP-Camera solution and work in IT.

 

[jask]

An attic switch strikes me as a failure waiting to happen, that is a hostile environment for electronics. I would also pull cat 6 for a long run and allow at least 2 wires for server link aggregation now or in the future.. I would have thought of this as overkill a year ago, but 4 months ago they pulled fiber optic to our node ( right at the property line ) and are planning fiber to the house this summer. Multi path gigabit at home. Whoda thunk it!?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Option 1. With a decent Gigabit switch, u shouldn't have bandwidth issues!

 

[slowtwitch]

Another item that you may want to install, if you have a steel pole barn like mine, is an AP (access point) device. Great for those wireless devices

 

[Sage55]

Not knowing your network setup entirely, but if possible I would do two runs of Cat5E or Cat6 from the house to the garage switch and trunk those together. From there I'd run cables in the garage to each of your devices (cameras, computers, and TV) as wired is always going to give you more stable and secure connections then wireless. If you wanted you could also add a AP for other devices (phones, tablets, etc).

 

[Spudland_Dave]

An attic switch strikes me as a failure waiting to happen, that is a hostile environment for electronics.

Yeah me too...
I pulled the wire from the house up into the attic, but from there it goes into a patch panel...I got 2 drops going down into the garage...for now I have my AP/Router down in the garage area...but I would contemplate trying it out up there at some point if it ever gets in the way.

If I would have been smart, I would have installed a small corner Shelf, Power & and Drop up high in one of the garage corners...

There is one area where I may be able to get away with it...

 

[NUTTSGT]

I ran Cat5e out to my garage with a switch in the attic. From there it goes to two places that I plug in my laptop. I have no need for wireless in the garage, so I'm good with hard wired.

I'd pull two Cat5e (or 6), some coax for a TV and a string for future pulls. I bought string for mine but forgot to run it with the Cat5e.

 

[kj_mustang]

An attic switch strikes me as a failure waiting to happen, that is a hostile environment for electronics.

I know of one large university with multiple dorm buildings that have switches in the attic. Yes, it gets very hot and cold in them but they keep on running. It is definitely a less than ideal location.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Whatever the cable scheme you choose, be sure to use outdoor rated (aka flooded) cable in place of regular cable. All underground conduits are rated as a wet location.

Even if sealed the conduit will soon fill with water, due to condensation

 

[ducktapeguy]

Thanks for all the info. Looks like option 1 is the way to go. I was just worried about the bandwith and wasn't sure if I'd have a problem daisy chaining switches. Lot of places say don't do it and run a separate wire, but I assume that's for large busy networks, I'm guessing for residential use it's not a problem.

Just to give some more background info. Right now the router is in a corner room of the house. I currently have an 8 port Netgear up in the attic to feed the rest of the house. I plan on upgrading to a 12 port, and moving the whole thing into an unused soffit area near the center of the house, so it basically become part of the conditioned area of the house. For the garage I don't really have any options, it's either going in a wall cabinet near the point of entry or up in a corner above the garage door.

The POE brings up another question. I currently have a 24V PoE injector for the main house to power 3 cameras, with a 5V step-down converter at each camera. Are there switches that will "feed through" power? I think 24V should be enough that I don't have to worry about the voltage loss at that distance, just wasn't sure whether switches can handle it. If not I was planning on getting another injector or PoE switch for the garage.

 

[yeldogt]

I have just done a version of option 1 on my new detached garage. 2-Cat5e cables with sonos cable for the speakers tied to the house system and one regular cable for TV.

The people doing all the low voltage stuff assured us this would handle everything we are doing now and would want to in the future, assuming for residential purpose of course.

What cable do you use for the sonos?

I understand in the house it is wireless -- what do you do ... run a cable to a dedicated sonos device .. or does it use soem sort of access point. I would like to do the same.

 

[Trey T]

In my previous home, I ran Cat5 to all the rooms. In my current home, I use TP-Link ($40 on amazon, internet over power line) to relocate my router to a more centralized location for garage access and in-home access.

I suggest you look into non-Cat5 (or Cat6) method to access to your internet and use wireless (mesh type; i.e. Z-Wave) security system.

I'm planning to have a centralized storage system (NAS) for "light-duty commercial" use of serving photo and video files for editing; that's the only Cat5 wiring that will do for my desktop until there's a reliable powerline gigabit ethernet.

Overall, what I'm saying is that there are more clever way to invest your time than run a bunch of Cat5 lines.

 

[R7237]

I really like the Ubiquiti stuff for network switches etc. I would run two wires and put a switch out there, or don't run any wires and just do it wirelessly.

 

[Wizzard]

Option 1, and definitely run a back-up/spare cable as a fail-safe. These are good power over ethernet (POE) switches for IP cameras available at a good price: http://www.zyxel.com/us/en/products_services/es1100_series.shtml?t=p#

 

[Skeetobite]

You could do this with a single run and leave the spare as a spare. Also a good idea to leave a painter line in the tube. Running 5 lines would be overkill when a switch in the garage will serve the purpose and save $$$.

Great advice given on using POE near the cameras. That's what I do. I've even added power in the areas I will need POE rather than try to send it any great distance.

I have a single CAT5e run that is serving the following:

• 4 hardwired ports
• 1 Apple TV
• 1 Ubiquity WiFi

The PC's at the end of this single run average 112Mb down. The wifi on this run serves the entire house, 3 wireless printers, 4 iPhones, 4 iPads, laptops and a gaming rig.

A single cable can handle a lot of data. If you want to split it up, go ahead since you're already pulling wire. BTW - you want "plenum" rated wire.

Here's a slightly dated post about my network

 

[theoldwizard1]

Use CAT 6. Typically, heavier gauge wire, so it can stand up to pulling better. Conduit are never guaranteed to be 100% dry.

Jeff Moss, would you pay the extra for "underground" cable ?

 

[Spudland_Dave]

...would you pay the extra for "underground" cable ?

Asked some of the wire guys who work for us about this...short answer is Nope...waste of money. Plain ol Cat5E is cheap enough, you could replace it if you needed to, in addition the guys I spoke to all said the ONLY time they use the Underground stuff is if its specifically speced out in the job. Otherwise its normal stuff.
In all the years of doing this, they said they've only had to replace one run...and that was due to construction and subsequent underground shifting which broke/sheared the conduit so even underground rated would have been broken.

I pulled plain 5E to mine...good enough...price was right.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Asked some of the wire guys who work for us about this...short answer is Nope...waste of money. Plain ol Cat5E is cheap enough, you could replace it if you needed to, ...

Good info !!!

 

[jeffmoss26]

Personally, I would buy the flooded cable...my suppliers sell it by the foot so I don't have to buy a whole reel.

 

[justsam]

Why not do it right and use flooded cable?
Given a choice I too would not like to work with it because the outer sheath is stiffer, and the gel inside is just nasty to work with, but it is the right product if subjected to moisture.

 

[ducktapeguy]

I'm thinking of using plain Cat5e because:

a) I already have it
b) I already have it, so it's free
c) I'm in a dry location, don't really have any moisture problems to deal with.

I'll run 2 or maybe even 3 wires in there, so if something were to happen and I'll have spares. And this run isn't that difficult so if I needed to pull something else in the future it would be easy. Probably by that time something better would come along anyway. Maybe I'll regret that decision later, or maybe not.

I've looked very briefly into wireless options but I think at this time cable is cheaper and easier for me. Wireless doesn't seem to work that well in older houses like mine, I can go 15 feet and completely lose signal in the next room.

 

[rench head]

i would run all the wires in the conduit.

 

[mindedc]

I'm a vetran of the it industry. Let's just say that I've been around the block and have but some extremely significant networks. My advise is going to be different from everything else here. I would run fiber between your buildings. You will be able to get a pre-terminated piece of 62.5 micron multi-mode fiber off ebay for a song ($25-50) and either transceivers or some small switches with gbic ports for cheap. Hell, at this point we are throwing away older 10/100 Poe switches with 1g fiber ports.

The rationale for fiber is twofold. Multi-mode is plastic optical fiber jacketed with Kevlar and impervious to moisture. I know you're in a dry area, but still... I have even direct buried indoor rated mmf and it lasted 10 years until I moved. The second reason is lightning. A buried cat5 cable is a lovely antenna to pick up lightning strikes. I've seen many customers and friends have their hardware fried by an indirect strike. Just think about the $$$ in your computer gear getting fried by a strike down the block...

If you have a friend in IT, hit them up for some switches. Otherwise if you're going to buy some hardware look at the nortel hardware in ebay. They went bankrupt and their older gear is dirt cheap and generally reliable. You're looking for baystack 470-Poe, business policy switch 2000 for 10/100 poe or a 5520 for10/100/1000... Those are all line rate full feature enterprise switches for less than a solid soho. You're going to need optics, any brand will do.

There are many brands of this hardware that would work famously, it's too exhausting to list all of it. I did this at one of my previous houses and cost was basically $30 for a spool of mmf fiber off ebay with ends on it and some freebie switches from the junk pile..

Pm me if you want to go down this path and need some help.

 

[mindedc]

You could do this with a single run and leave the spare as a spare. Also a good idea to leave a painter line in the tube. Running 5 lines would be overkill when a switch in the garage will serve the purpose and save $$$.

Great advice given on using POE near the cameras. That's what I do. I've even added power in the areas I will need POE rather than try to send it any great distance.

I have a single CAT5e run that is serving the following:

• 4 hardwired ports
• 1 Apple TV
• 1 Ubiquity WiFi

The PC's at the end of this single run average 112Mb down. The wifi on this run serves the entire house, 3 wireless printers, 4 iPhones, 4 iPads, laptops and a gaming rig.

A single cable can handle a lot of data. If you want to split it up, go ahead since you're already pulling wire. BTW - you want "plenum" rated wire.

Here's a slightly dated post about my network

The ONLY benefit of Plenum cable is that the smoke it creates when burned is not poisonous like the standard pvc jacket. Plenum is required by fire code in buildings where the drop ceiling is used as the hvac return. The insulation is made from Teflon so it costs double per foot. There is no need for plenum in a home unless you're running it in air ducts.

 

[Skeetobite]

The ONLY benefit of Plenum cable is that the smoke it creates when burned is not poisonous like the standard pvc jacket. Plenum is required by fire code in buildings where the drop ceiling is used as the hvac return. The insulation is made from Teflon so it costs double per foot. There is no need for plenum in a home unless you're running it in air ducts.

Good to know. I misunderstood the specs.

 

[DC73]

The second reason is lightning. A buried cat5 cable is a lovely antenna to pick up lightning strikes. I've seen many customers and friends have their hardware fried by an indirect strike. Just think about the $$$ in your computer gear getting fried by a strike down the block...

When this happens it's usually due to the Cat5 cable being the common link between two different electrical systems. When lightning strikes, it causes a potential difference between the grounding points (ground rods, etc) of the two different electrical systems. That potential difference causes current to flow in the common link (the Cat5 or other communication cables). That current is too high for the cable and connected equipment and it lets the magic smoke out.

The solution is to bond the two grounding points together or as you mentioned, install fiber. If it's fairly convenient, I'd bond the grounds even if I did install fiber.

DC

 

[mindedc]

When this happens it's usually due to the Cat5 cable being the common link between two different electrical systems. When lightning strikes, it causes a potential difference between the grounding points (ground rods, etc) of the two different electrical systems. That potential difference causes current to flow in the common link (the Cat5 or other communication cables). That current is too high for the cable and connected equipment and it lets the magic smoke out.

The solution is to bond the two grounding points together or as you mentioned, install fiber. If it's fairly convenient, I'd bond the grounds even if I did install fiber.

DC

I agree on all points. I assume if we're debating cat 5 in conduits nobody's gone to the expsnese/trouble to drive ground rods at the second building and bond the grounds together....

Even if we are doing something like that ( these days its for wireless bridges mostly ) we are using a MOV based suppressor grounded via solid path to earth at the entry point of the building. We HAVE to run copper for POE for the access points. If external antennas are in play we use gas-gap lighning arrestors in the signal path grounded to central ground. Key being keeping potential equal across all grounds.

Again, buying effective suppression is going to cost a lot more than two older enterprise switches and a used/leftover piece of fiber off ebay.

Of course there are lots of people burying cat5 and getting away with it. If there is any consolation for the OP this is way less of an issue than the whole PVC pipe for air delivery thing

 

[Mecheng76]

I also ran 2 cat 5s to garage underground in conduit. One straight from the DSL router, the other will be a spare. I will install a switch later. Plan to run survalence cameras, a professional grade weather station and be able to listen to Pandora thru and older computer. Iot devices to be added as the industry develops. For now I am using Belkin Wemos and IFTTT for some simple automation.

Also 4 ground rods all bonded together from cabin to two outbuildings.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I'm thinking of using plain Cat5e because:

a) I already have it
b) I already have it, so it's free
c) I'm in a dry location, don't really have any moisture problems to deal with.

I'll run 2 or maybe even 3 wires in there, so if something were to happen and I'll have spares. And this run isn't that difficult so if I needed to pull something else in the future it would be easy. Probably by that time something better would come along anyway. Maybe I'll regret that decision later, or maybe not.

I've looked very briefly into wireless options but I think at this time cable is cheaper and easier for me. Wireless doesn't seem to work that well in older houses like mine, I can go 15 feet and completely lose signal in the next room.

U are aware that underground conduit gets water in it?

 

[ducktapeguy]

Well, for better or worse, I already ran the cable over the weekend, so if there's a problem with it I'll have to deal with it in the future. I'm hoping it won't be an issue, this is the the same cable the AT&T guy ran on the outside of my house under the rain gutter and it's been fine for 4 years.

So the plan is to run everything up to the attic area to a patch panel, and in the garage go to a keystone wall plate. Sound correct? Which leads me to another question. If I wanted to install another wall plate in the garage, what the proper way to connect it? Do I run a patch cord from the input wall plate and just terminate it at another keystone connector? Seems a little odd to do that, but I don't think you can splice two Cat5e together at one connector.

Also, does anyone have any preferred vendors for the little things like plates, boxes, panels, etc? I can handle electrical, but networking is relatively new to me. I was also considering running some coax cable at the same time, but I really can't think of any use for it at this time or even in the future. Anyone have a good reason why I should?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well, for better or worse, I already ran the cable over the weekend, so if there's a problem with it I'll have to deal with it in the future. I'm hoping it won't be an issue, this is the the same cable the AT&T guy ran on the outside of my house under the rain gutter and it's been fine for 4 years.

So the plan is to run everything up to the attic area to a patch panel, and in the garage go to a keystone wall plate. Sound correct? Which leads me to another question. If I wanted to install another wall plate in the garage, what the proper way to connect it? Do I run a patch cord from the input wall plate and just terminate it at another keystone connector? Seems a little odd to do that, but I don't think you can splice two Cat5e together at one connector.

Also, does anyone have any preferred vendors for the little things like plates, boxes, panels, etc? I can handle electrical, but networking is relatively new to me. I was also considering running some coax cable at the same time, but I really can't think of any use for it at this time or even in the future. Anyone have a good reason why I should?

The same cable as the ATT guy? Is it twisted pair Cat5e or phone wire?

I prefer Leviton...