Eulogy for USA Craftsman Tools ( Rot In Hell China Replacements )

[Aberdale]

I've read pretty much every Cman bashing thread on this forum. I read them more for the entertainment value than any useful information I may get out of them. I never respond, but often get a chuckle. These threads are just chock full of emotion, second guesses, flag waving, COO, pining for the "good old days", and just general misinformation.

I probably shouldn't respond to this thread either. But here goes. I own a lot of Cman tools. I own a lot of SO, too. And I'm not ashamed to say I buy a few things at HF when the need arises. I could give two shits less about where anything is made. My job was shipped out to China in 2004. It was scary at the time, but I got another job. A better one. So losing low paying, stressful, and hazardous jobs to China doesn't bother me. I buy tools because I need tools, not because I'm making a fashion statement, or trying to make a political position about saving the American middle class.

When it comes to tools, I want good ones. They don't have to be shiny. Hell, I don't even care about a warranty. If a tool breaks, do I really want a replacement just like the one that broke? I just want a tool that I buy once, and will last the rest of my life (unless it's a consumable like blades and bits).

I used to work in a profession that developed new products, and therefore was exposed to a lot of consumer research and marketing. I'm sure that Sears did considerable research before they decided to source tools in China. We all know that the US made Cman tools have been going downhill since the 1980s. (There's tons of threads about poor chrome, bad ratchets, terrible promotional tools, etc.) All of those changes were to keep the price point of Cman tools within the range of most US consumers expectations, because after all, most consumers buy on price, and assume quality is the same everywhere. (A wrench is a wrench is a wrench.)

Consumers develop a behavior. We are conditioned to do the same things over and over again. If a person develops the behavior of buying on price, it is doubtful that they will ever change, even if they say they will. It's just human behavior, and has been documented many times over.

Sears is doing what they have to to meet their primary consumer's expectation, which is providing a good tool at a reasonable price, with an outstanding warranty. As far as I'm concerned Sears is still doing that, until I have an experience with a Cman tool that proves otherwise. When that happens, I will take my tool buying dollars elsewhere. Until then, I will continue to consider Cman, as well as SO, HF, HD, Lowe's, SK, and others when I need a tool.

It is what it is. There's no use getting wadded ******* over it.

'dale

 

[Deve]

I know this is a controversial issue.. and I totally sympathize with the USA fans as I am a veteran, but lets be honest.. REALLY honest here. You have a family, you love them dearly and you go to work everyday with THEM in your hearts. You happen to have been born in CHINA. Indesputable fact: 70% of the worlds resources are used by the United States while we only have 3% of the worlds population. Rather than being a US or Die person, how about we get our mojo back by putting out better products? The Germans do it and its working for them. Just me.

 

[TheGr8erG00d]

I see both sides of the issue. On one hand, I understand that it was likely getting expensive for Craftsman to keep working with US manufacturers. It's a surprise they held out as long as they did. On the other hand, I also own a lot of Craftsman that I hate the idea of trading in for a product that wasn't US produced. I like to try to put my money into the US economy if I can because it just plain ***** right now. If I wanted the very best, I would be looking at German tools and the like. This is just where I'm trying to put my money even though this economy certainly hasn't done me any favors since receiving my degree. Sears (I hope, anyway) is just trying to keep putting out fairly affordable tools, although this can be arguable depending on the tool. If they really were still making great profit margins and were just seeking to grow them further, well, they can go to hell. I won't go back there anymore.

At the very least, we still have US tools we can fall back on. Look at who Craftsman had producing their tools, outfits like Wilde. They are still here and produce the tools we loved, we just have to get it from another source. Unfortunately, that's not half as easy as walking down to your local Sears. Damn shame considering my hometown only just got our Sears back and I was looking forward to how convenient it would finally be to warranty items.

At the end of the day, there isn't anything we can do or say about it. Somehow we need to stimulate and encourage American manufacturing to make a comeback.

 

[d.mcfarland]

Indesputable fact: 70% of the worlds resources are used by the United States while we only have 3% of the worlds population.

Proof please. That's a ridiculously high number to just throw out there.

 

[Deve]

I try to buy local. Not just US, but the town I live in if possible. Its just a matter of helping out your neighbor. But really, the numbers I have put out there is just a matter of doing your research. Check it out yourself. Just like anything you hear on the internet, confirm it. Its just where we are. We need to get our mojo back. In 1960 we were the #1 best education system in the INDUSTRIALIZED world. Today we are #18. Why is that? I really don't have the answers, I just feel bad for us and hope we can figure it out. Meanwhile, we breath the same air as citizens of the rest of the world. We are NO better. Rather than having the sports mentality and rooting for a team, how about we honor our brothers all over the world and if we want to be better than them in making tools for example, how about we just DO it? Just sayin.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

At what point in history did Sears not sell clothes and shoes?

Heck, why not go back and sell houses as well?

No clue, they've probably sold clothing & shoes all along. What I was trying to say is when you think Sears, you dont think Clothes & Shoes. Like I said before in a couple other threads, we used to have a really nice Sears locally, and I cant remember a single time my wife ever went into Sears for Clothing, Shoes, or other items like that (and she has her fair share, trust me). To me, and most people I know, they were a "Durable Goods" store. You could ask my mom or wife to pick up a shovel on the way home from work and they'd drive straight to Sears without asking a single question.
I think they could have found themselves to be a niche store and successful had they stuck to those items. No better place to buy a set of Michelin's and a Garage door opener.

In terms of your comment about going back and selling houses too...obviously the management back then dropped that aspect of business when it was time. Just because they sold it since the beginning doesnt mean they should hold onto it...like the clothing/shoes/jewlery, etc. The brands & products I speak of were always considered to be great items...DieHard, Craftsman, Kenmore, etc...

 

[mmack66]

No clue, they've probably sold clothing & shoes all along. What I was trying to say is when you think Sears, you dont think Clothes & Shoes. Like I said before in a couple other threads, we used to have a really nice Sears locally, and I cant remember a single time my wife ever went into Sears for Clothing, Shoes, or other items like that (and she has her fair share, trust me). To me, and most people I know, they were a "Durable Goods" store. You could ask my mom or wife to pick up a shovel on the way home from work and they'd drive straight to Sears without asking a single question.
I think they could have found themselves to be a niche store and successful had they stuck to those items. No better place to buy a set of Michelin's and a Garage door opener.

In terms of your comment about going back and selling houses too...obviously the management back then dropped that aspect of business when it was time. Just because they sold it since the beginning doesnt mean they should hold onto it...like the clothing/shoes/jewlery, etc. The brands & products I speak of were always considered to be great items...DieHard, Craftsman, Kenmore, etc...

Well, I don't know how old you are, but I grew up in the Seventies, and clothing, shoes, furniture, housewares, along with everything else you have mentioned, were very much a part of what people went to Sears to buy. They were a place that people could go to buy pretty much anything they needed for themselves, and their homes.

Quite frankly, there is no way that Sears could stay in business by selling only Craftsman, Diehard, and Kenmore. There was a time when I would have agreed with you, but the reality of how retail works these days makes it impossible for that kind of business to succeed, as there is simply too much competition from discounters and the internet.

 

[litng1]

Like a death in the family to me.My grand father and father always used craftsman and so did I up till now.
Makes me sick its not made here.

litng1 from Bardstown ky.

 

[slidehammer]

Indesputable fact: 70% of the worlds resources are used by the United States while we only have 3% of the worlds population.

Nonsense. The correct figures are around 1/4 (depending on your definition of "resources") and about 5%. The US is also responsible for 1/4 of global GDP.

It seems like almost every statement starkly introduced as "fact" on internet forums is either opinion, conjecture, or flat-out wrong.

 

[hefty lefty]

Sears linked into or even bought into many mall locations that are now long past the current retail model. But they cannot react due to the fact they cannot sell off what they have to move to viable locations. Heck, the hometown stores in most bigger cities are gonzo.

Many factors, same result. Walmart's ruthless buying power did not help, but I do not see that being a huge factor for tools.

And as for me, I NEVER buy my groceries where I buy my tools nor my undergarments.

No way. Ever.

The malls in many towns are doing very well. What killed the malls that died had to do with the demographics. Where the mall-friendly demo still shops malls can do well unless the owner decides to start running the people out so he can greenfield it and sell to pathological developers wanting to build a big box store.

 

[jd_1138]

I know this is a controversial issue.. and I totally sympathize with the USA fans as I am a veteran, but lets be honest.. REALLY honest here. You have a family, you love them dearly and you go to work everyday with THEM in your hearts. You happen to have been born in CHINA. Indesputable fact: 70% of the worlds resources are used by the United States while we only have 3% of the worlds population. Rather than being a US or Die person, how about we get our mojo back by putting out better products? The Germans do it and its working for them. Just me.

The problem with China is that a lot of the factories are unethical and do not care about their workers, so as a result the working conditions are pretty deplorable in many Chinese factories. So are we really "helping" the Chinese factory worker? Or would it be better if the Chinese factories were to build higher quality products that cost a little more to make and are priced higher, but this would raise the Chinese workers' wages and allow them to buy all these products that they make. And if the Chinese did build better products, it would help to keep North American factories open.

They produce an inferior product (most of the time) and mistreat their workers -- all so consumers can save a few pennies per tool item in that 200 piece Mechanic's Set or to add a little profit or both. Believe me, there are costs associated with making your product in China -- shipping materials over there, costs with setting up factories/channels, shipping costs to get the product back here, eroding your brand loyalty, destroying the long term economic health of North America where most of your customers live and work, etc.. But I may be looking at it through a tool enthusiast's lens (and I don't mind paying more for Made in the USA Craftsman). The average Joe Bag of Donuts off the street probably doesn't think hard enough to care about where the tools in his 90 piece Craftsman set were made. He just wants a 1/2" socket to put his kid's "made in China" bike together on Christmas morning.

 

[87FoRunner]

What if craftsman branched off into its own entity, like the sears hometown stores.

My parents town has one that opened up that is just appliances, TVs, lawn and garden, and tools with a large scratch an dent area out back. I hate never having time to shop there

 

[hefty lefty]

The problem with China is that a lot of the factories are unethical and do not care about their workers, so as a result the working conditions are pretty deplorable in many Chinese factories. So are we really "helping" the Chinese factory worker? Or would it be better if the Chinese factories were to build higher quality products that cost a little more to make and are priced higher, but this would raise the Chinese workers' wages and allow them to buy all these products that they make. And if the Chinese did build better products, it would help to keep North American factories open.

They produce an inferior product (most of the time) and mistreat their workers -- all so consumers can save a few pennies per tool item in that 200 piece Mechanic's Set or to add a little profit or both. Believe me, there are costs associated with making your product in China -- shipping materials over there, costs with setting up factories/channels, shipping costs to get the product back here, eroding your brand loyalty, destroying the long term economic health of North America where most of your customers live and work, etc.. But I may be looking at it through a tool enthusiast's lens (and I don't mind paying more for Made in the USA Craftsman). The average Joe Bag of Donuts off the street probably doesn't think hard enough to care about where the tools in his 90 piece Craftsman set were made. He just wants a 1/2" socket to put his kid's "made in China" bike together on Christmas morning.

A book you need to read:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0470928077/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[McFarmer]

87% of statistics are made up.

 

[ssentt]

Well, I don't know how old you are, but I grew up in the Seventies, and clothing, shoes, furniture, housewares, along with everything else you have mentioned, were very much a part of what people went to Sears to buy. They were a place that people could go to buy pretty much anything they needed for themselves, and their homes.

I can remember going to Sears Roebuck on the weekends as a child and the place would be very busy. First place I ever saw and rode escalators. We always had diehard batteries for our car, grandparents car and farmtruck. Dad wore Sears work boots, work pants and shirts for years. I wore jeans from sears till my teen years. We had furniture from sears and so did my grandparents. I even had glasses from sears as a young boy. Kenmore washer, dryer, fridge, stove. Hell, every one of those appliances lasted 15-20+ years. How about the J.C. Higgins Model 21 "Ted Williams" Deluxe shot gun anybody remember those? Dad and I each had the model 21 pump shotgun, they came with a Polychoke made by High Standard Arms IIFC? Shot the hell out of those. We had those long before we had any remingtons in the house. Matter of fact if I dig around in some of my ammo boxes I can still find a few Ted Williams mt shotshells. I can rememeber getting just about every sporting good item we had in our house from Sears Roebuck. You know another thing, if we couldn't find it at Sears we went to Montegomery Wards and did the old price comparison shopping. My parents perfered Sears and would pit Sears and Wards against one another to get management to match prices way back in the early 70's. The big difference between those days vs today was you didn't have all this China made ****. USA made goods was the norm and Japan made the products we avoided at that time because the quality just wasn't there. Remember this was not a disposable society at that time. Most people would search for quality made products that would last many years to get the most value for their dollar. Unfortunately today its the complete opposite, we live in a disposable society and NOTHING is designed or manufactured to last beyond three to five years. This country is gone to hell in a handbasket. All for sake of making a buck.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Well, I don't know how old you are, but I grew up in the Seventies, and clothing, shoes, furniture, housewares, along with everything else you have mentioned, were very much a part of what people went to Sears to buy. They were a place that people could go to buy pretty much anything they needed for themselves, and their homes.

Quite frankly, there is no way that Sears could stay in business by selling only Craftsman, Diehard, and Kenmore. There was a time when I would have agreed with you, but the reality of how retail works these days makes it impossible for that kind of business to succeed, as there is simply too much competition from discounters and the internet.

For all intents & purposes...I wasnt around in the seventies...

I know what your saying here, but It just seems to me the Niche type stores are doing better then the full line stores. You cant be all things to all people. Nobody has ever said Wallyworld is the best or has the best quality products, they got a whole lot of "nothing" but survive by selling a whole lot at low margins. Sears has become "nothing to everybody" by watering down every product line it has.

You see TSC Stores popping up everywhere and being successful, along with other "specialized niche" stores doing well. To me, the everything under one roof business model belongs to WalMart. You go to walmart to grab crappy socks, a crappy deck chair, a box of Q-Tips, and a Propane tank refill...only silver lining is you can walk out of there with all those items for 40 bucks.

Ultimately vote with your wallet & feet...its clear even pro's like(d) Craftsman stuff, I've been trading in/upgrading a set of something almost every week on my SO truck...the following week when I get on the truck its gone & sold...

 

[ssentt]

For all intents & purposes...I wasnt around in the seventies...

To me, the everything under one roof business model belongs to WalMart. You go to walmart to grab crappy socks, a crappy deck chair, a box of Q-Tips, and a Propane tank refill...only silver lining is you can walk out of there with all those items for 40 bucks.Ultimately vote with your wallet & feet...its clear even pro's like(d) Craftsman stuff, I've been trading in/upgrading a set of something almost every week on my SO truck...the following week when I get on the truck its gone & sold...

Crappy socks...Fruit of the Loom Men's Crew Socks, 10 Pack $8.77
Crappy deck chair....US Leisure Ocean Isle Resin Chair, $8.88
Q-Tips Cotton Swabs, 375 count, $2.68
Rhino Propane tank exchange 18lb, $17.82
Net cost $38.15
Tax $2.67 @7% tax here
Total cost $40.82

Sears prices....
Fruit of the Loom Men's White Crew Sport Sock 10pk $6.99
Adams Adirondack Chair, $11.49
Q-tips Cotton Swabs, 375ct, $3.01
Rhino Propane tank exchange 20lb, $19.99
Net cost $41.48
Tax $2.90 @7% tax here
Total cost $44.38

Walmarts cost on society vs sears.....not even close in comparision. IMO

Read up on walmart...http://www.walmartmovie.com/facts.php
Read up on costco vs walmart...http://hbr.org/2006/12/the-high-cost-of-low-wages/ar/1
http://bizgovsoc2.wordpress.com/2012/04/09/the-costs-of-being-costco-why-ethics-matter/

Walmart is a parasite on our society that we taxpayers subsidize...simple facts if you do some research. In study after study same results.

 

[ganymede]

Anyone remember the scene in 'Schindlers List' were a German soldier just snaps, starts laughing, screaming and empties his pistol into a pile of burning corpses. ?

 

[Deve]

I'm sorry, but does your love affair with Sears include Kmart? Cause the parent company is the same and its procedures and practices are the same. In my area, Kmart is an afterthought in competition (not even) with Wal mart. I agree with all of the above. Back when I was a kid, Western Auto was where you went for quality. KEY was the company you went for when you needed work clothes. Each generation has its memories of greatness. That's America at its best. America at its worst, however, is complaining about China kicking our *** rather than doing something about it. It begins with ambition and sacrifice. It ends with... Ambition and Sacrifice. Or.. we could all pass out Participation Trophies to everyone and call it a day.

 

[hefty lefty]

I'm sorry, but does your love affair with Sears include Kmart? Cause the parent company is the same and its procedures and practices are the same. In my area, Kmart is an afterthought in competition (not even) with Wal mart. I agree with all of the above. Back when I was a kid, Western Auto was where you went for quality. KEY was the company you went for when you needed work clothes. Each generation has its memories of greatness. That's America at its best. America at its worst, however, is complaining about China kicking our *** rather than doing something about it. It begins with ambition and sacrifice. It ends with... Ambition and Sacrifice. Or.. we could all pass out Participation Trophies to everyone and call it a day.

I have no Ambition to Sacrifice everything Americans worked for for a hundred plus years to work for what the Chinese work for. I'm not going to ask anyone to work under those conditions either.

The truth is China is not kicking our ***. The Chinese Communist party is working with multinational elites to kick the *** of the middle class in America and Europe. Europe is actually a little better about not tolerating it very much.