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Evaluate my lighting plan

thetruck454

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I wouldn't mind some input on my two lighting plans for my almost 30x40 garage with 10' ceilings. Fixtures will be surface mounted 4' double T8's and 8' quad T8's. The garage is drywalled and painted a extremely light semi gloss gray. Since I can get into the attic I figured it would be easier to hang the lights after the drywall was up. The front 24' section will have the vehicles and motorcycles with the back 16' section be the little workshop with a work bench at the back. I don't have a good grasp on what light spacing i should use so I wanted to ask for opinions. I'm not opposed to changing the layout completely from what I had, it just seamed to make sense.

layout1.jpg


layout2.jpg
 
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JoeFin

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In my opinion it needs work

You'll wish you had more light in the back over the work benches where your close up work will most likely be performed. Also the front by the garage doors, where you will pull in and look under the hood of your toys doesn't seem to have enough light either
 

kamesama980

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First pic is more like romantic mood lighting levels.

Double the lighting (in the second pic), easy. I have 12 4' T8 x4 fixtures in <24x20 of my garage (no more than 3' between fixtures) and I'd say it's at the minimum. Granted they aren't fancy super bright bulbs and I don't have drywall but the inside of the garage has white radiant barrier and the floors freshly applied glossy tan rocksolid covering.

8' between the fixtures at 10' is going to give alternating light/dark bands.

Put a couple lights over where the garage doors are, maybe on a separate circuit if you're OCD about wasted power.
 
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soapii

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At the very least you want the lights to be over the bench not behind it. Otherwise while you are standing at the bench you will cast a shadow on your own work (from the lights being behind you).

In my case the center two lights over the work bench I rotated to the perpendicular to the other lights. So the OCD in me allowed them to all be in line, just the center two were rotated.

Good luck.

--Joe
 

2ManyProjects

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I wouldn't mind some input on my two lighting plans for my almost 30x40 garage with 10' ceilings. Fixtures will be surface mounted 4' double T8's and 8' quad T8's.

First suggestion: Dump the 8-footers, in favor of more 4-footers. This will provide more flexibility in terms of both placement and switching. Yeah, that means a little more wiring; but only trivially so. Twin-tube F32T8 types will be the most cost-effective, and provide more than adequate output, once you have enough of them installed to provide truly EVEN light distribution.

The garage is drywalled and painted a extremely light semi gloss gray. Since I can get into the attic I figured it would be easier to hang the lights after the drywall was up.

So far, so good. Really white paint (at least on the ceiling) would be better from a reflectance standpoint; but if the gray is light enough, it won't be a huge difference.

The front 24' section will have the vehicles and motorcycles with the back 16' section be the little workshop with a work bench at the back. I don't have a good grasp on what light spacing i should use so I wanted to ask for opinions.

I tend to agree with the general consensus that you don't have enough light, and much of what you do have is largely in the wrong places.

That "front" section where the vehicles live needs a LOT more lighting, at least presuming that you plan to work on those vehicles in situ. I would start by extending those three "vertical" rows to run at least nearly the full 24-foot length of that part of the garage. I would also add a fourth row, more-or-less centered between the two more-widely spaced existing rows; this should correspond to the space between where two vehicles park.

[BTW... What are the smallish rectangular items shown in the drawing just inside of and between the two overhead doors? Do they extend all the way up to the ceiling? If not, then no problem; if so, that row will likely need to be "shortened" a bit to accommodate it/them.]

Next, a few feet "before" the jog in the left-hand wall, (i.e., about where you're showing a single four-foot fixture in the second drawing), I'd run another more-or-less continuous row of fixtures ACROSS the space.

At this point, we will have covered the "car park" area pretty well. You'll probably still want at least one ceiling-mounted drop light on a cord reel, for detailed under-hood work and/or when crawling around under the cars; but the fixed lighting should be more than adequate for most routine work. In fact, it should be SO adequate that you'll also want to arrange the switching so that you don't necessarily need to run all of it at the same time for non-critical work; yet the lighting pattern should remain as evenly distributed as possible even when only some (say, 1/3 to 1/2) of the fixtures are switched on. (This is yet another reason to use four-foot fixtures instead of 8-footers.)

Moving on to the workshop area... Both the total amount and the specific locations of the general lighting will depend in large part on what you're going to do in the way of task lighting. The workbench in particular should have generous dedicated lighting, either directly overhead (NOT behind you, for the reasons mentioned by "soapii"), or mounted under your upper cabinets (if such are to be installed), or (preferably) both.

Any fixed-location machines (bench grinder, drill press, lathe, saws, blast cabinet, etc.) should also be given dedicated task lighting. If you plan to have a general-purpose work table (such as for fabrication/welding) somewhere in the middle of that large-ish open space, it too should have plenty of light directly overhead.

Beyond that, a few four-foot twin-tube fixtures for general lighting will also be needed; but if you really do the task lighting right, probably not all that many of them -- I'd guess that 4-6 fixtures, spaced more-or-less evenly across the space, will do nicely, presuming good task lighting.

Finally, you will also need some "walk through" lighting. You can near-certainly fill this need by putting a very minimal number (maybe 2-4) of the above-described fixtures on a common (but separate from everything else) switch circuit, with the switches themselves located immediately adjacent to EVERY entry point.

Try genning up another drawing, based on the comments you've received thus far; we can "fine tune" things from there.

 

DwightS

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You’ve got a great space to work with, lots of opportunities and lots of flexibility. The light gray walls will help with brightness some, but will become less important as things are collected and stored in there as I’m sure you’ll agree in time.

I work for an engineering firm and I have 20 years of experience in lighting and electrical design. I always design per code requirements and IESNA recommended lighting levels for the space. The current ASHRE 90.1 energy code for your “workshop” will allow 54 32W T8 lamps. (1104 sq-ft x 1.59W/sq-ft allowed = 1755W allowed. 1755/32 = 54.8 lamps allowed.) That is more than I’d install considering the garage doors and their tracks/structure. The layout attached below has 46 lamps. This is 1472 watts, which is a single 20A, 120V circuit for lights. This layout gives you an average of 67 FC and uniformity of 2.6:1, which is pretty good.


I would recommend putting a fixture separately switched over your workbench. That way you eliminate shadows and you’ll have almost 80+ footcandles on the work surface. I’ve got a 4’ fixture directly over my 8’ bench and I have no shadows to work around. If you’ve got overhead cabinets planned for the bench, you may need to tweak the location and mounting height of that fixture to minimize a harsh cut-off shadow from the cabinets. The fixture may end up directly over your head to eliminate the shadow.

Consider chain hanging the fixtures down to about 9’-0” above floor. If you’ve a little extra money, think about installing ceiling mounting receptacles and plugging your fixtures into them. That way, if you decide to rearrange your shop, you can rearrange your lighting without much effort. Some of the shop lights you can find at the big-box stores have cords attached. Also, I’ve shown the ceiling receptacles grouped, the front, large half of the garage and the smaller, back half plus the workbench area. This way you can switch only the lighting that you need. There are many ways to arrange things and group the lighting/switching arrangments. Only you can decide what works best once you're in there.
 

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thetruck454

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I did a quick redraw with more lights. It seams a bit excessive to me but I thought I'd see what the reactions were. I also put rough locations of the vehicles/ bikes. All the other objects shown are some sort of machine or cabinets. BTW I appreciate everyone's input, I don't mind being told I'm out to lunch in my ideas

 
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5mall5nail5

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Wow

Um, that's a lot.

I have a ~24x24 garage or so and I have (2) 8' Lithonia 54HO fixtures (4 48" bulbs) and (3) 4' Lithonia 54HO fixtures and it's like a mini solar system inside.

I would suggest looking at the T5HO. The amount of light you posted above would give me a headache if using your car parking area and my fixtures dear god. As it is, with my setup, my contacts almost haze up when I come into the garage at night with it fully lit!


Drywall and additional light by Jon Kensy, on Flickr
 

bczygan

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You have 37 fixtures. A bit too much.
20 two tube 4' fixtures, using T8 bulbs, with 2700 lumens each, will give you 108,000 lumens. Divide by your 1,050SF to get 102 lumens/SF. Plenty of light.

Arrange as needed. Your first layout wasn't bad, if using the readily available and reasonably priced T8's. Just add another over the bench. Remember that, while this is very bright general illumination, you will still need task lighting at a workbench or for working under a vehicle, or for fine work at a machine or bench.
 
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thetruck454

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First suggestion: Dump the 8-footers, in favor of more 4-footers. This will provide more flexibility in terms of both placement and switching. Yeah, that means a little more wiring; but only trivially so. Twin-tube F32T8 types will be the most cost-effective, and provide more than adequate output, once you have enough of them installed to provide truly EVEN light distribution.

Using 4' does make more sense in that respect

[BTW... What are the smallish rectangular items shown in the drawing just inside of and between the two overhead doors? Do they extend all the way up to the ceiling? If not, then no problem; if so, that row will likely need to be "shortened" a bit to accommodate it/them.]

Haha, those are jsut where i was putting the trash and recycle cans, they are very mobile:lol:


Finally, you will also need some "walk through" lighting. You can near-certainly fill this need by putting a very minimal number (maybe 2-4) of the above-described fixtures on a common (but separate from everything else) switch circuit, with the switches themselves located immediately adjacent to EVERY entry point.

Yea I was going to make a path down the middle of lights
You’ve got a great space to work with, lots of opportunities and lots of flexibility. The light gray walls will help with brightness some, but will become less important as things are collected and stored in there as I’m sure you’ll agree in time.

I work for an engineering firm and I have 20 years of experience in lighting and electrical design. I always design per code requirements and IESNA recommended lighting levels for the space. The current ASHRE 90.1 energy code for your “workshop” will allow 54 32W T8 lamps. (1104 sq-ft x 1.59W/sq-ft allowed = 1755W allowed. 1755/32 = 54.8 lamps allowed.) That is more than I’d install considering the garage doors and their tracks/structure. The layout attached below has 46 lamps. This is 1472 watts, which is a single 20A, 120V circuit for lights. This layout gives you an average of 67 FC and uniformity of 2.6:1, which is pretty good.


I would recommend putting a fixture separately switched over your workbench. That way you eliminate shadows and you’ll have almost 80+ footcandles on the work surface. I’ve got a 4’ fixture directly over my 8’ bench and I have no shadows to work around. If you’ve got overhead cabinets planned for the bench, you may need to tweak the location and mounting height of that fixture to minimize a harsh cut-off shadow from the cabinets. The fixture may end up directly over your head to eliminate the shadow.

Consider chain hanging the fixtures down to about 9’-0” above floor. If you’ve a little extra money, think about installing ceiling mounting receptacles and plugging your fixtures into them. That way, if you decide to rearrange your shop, you can rearrange your lighting without much effort. Some of the shop lights you can find at the big-box stores have cords attached. Also, I’ve shown the ceiling receptacles grouped, the front, large half of the garage and the smaller, back half plus the workbench area. This way you can switch only the lighting that you need. There are many ways to arrange things and group the lighting/switching arrangments. Only you can decide what works best once you're in there.

Thanks for that layout, I may end up using it more or less


Wow

Um, that's a lot.

I have a ~24x24 garage or so and I have (2) 8' Lithonia 54HO fixtures (4 48" bulbs) and (3) 4' Lithonia 54HO fixtures and it's like a mini solar system inside.

I would suggest looking at the T5HO. The amount of light u posted above would give me a headache if using your car parking area and my fixtures dear god. As it is, with my setup, my contacts almost haze up when I come into the garage at night with it fully lit!

My dad has T5's in his shop and they defanietly put out some light, but they are too bright to look at for me. I like the T8's @ 4100k
 
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kamesama980

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I did a quick redraw with more lights. It seams a bit excessive to me but I thought I'd see what the reactions were. I also put rough locations of the vehicles/ bikes. All the other objects shown are some sort of machine or cabinets. BTW I appreciate everyone's input, I don't mind being told I'm out to lunch in my ideas


Much better. I'd keep the same rows over the fronts of the cars but that's preference. Maybe a little less perimeter lighting by the parking area.
 

5mall5nail5

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My dad has T5's in his shop and they defanietly put out some light, but they are too bright to look at for me. I like the T8's @ 4100k

Not sure man - 9 - 10' ceiling here and I don't ever "look at" the bulbs. Yes they're bright, they're light bulbs!

5000 lumens each in 48" bulbs, I am working with 14 bulbs or 70,000 lumens over a 450 sq ft space = 140 lumen sq/ft and it's AMAZING. No task lighting needed. Your call, just a suggestion.

Bulb color temperature...

I found the cool white bulbs at 4100K to be too yellow.

Ended up with the daylight bulbs at 6500K

My "cool white" 4100k T5HO's are definitely "cool" - not yellow in the least. I'd almost argue they're not warm enough.
 

mygarageone

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I now know why I have no decent lighting in my garage , not enough fixtures. So I need more for sure But here is my situation.
I have a metal ceiling ( Gloss White ) My current fixtures are hanging about 1 ft below the ceiling and they have the standard curved reflectors on them. Because I do have an all white metal ceiling do I really need the lights with reflectors ?

28 x 40 garage , 10 ft ceiling white and white walls. Currently have 8 - 4' 2 bulbs units with the day light bulbs in them. Fixtures are hanging about 1 ft from ceiling . Garage has no rooms in it.
 
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2ManyProjects

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I work for an engineering firm and I have 20 years of experience in lighting and electrical design. I always design per code requirements and IESNA recommended lighting levels for the space. The current ASHRE 90.1 energy code for your “workshop” will allow 54 32W T8 lamps. (1104 sq-ft x 1.59W/sq-ft allowed = 1755W allowed. 1755/32 = 54.8 lamps allowed.)

Fortunately, "thetruck454" is not subject to such constraints in his private residential garage.

That is more than I’d install considering the garage doors and their tracks/structure. The layout attached below has 46 lamps. This is 1472 watts, which is a single 20A, 120V circuit for lights.

Maybe. Maybe not. It would depend in part on the particular fixtures (specifically, the ballasts) chosen. But even IF it could all be squeezed onto a single circuit, it is not necessarily a good idea to do so. Regardless of the load magnitude, a good argument can be made that the lighting should be split between at least two circuits, so that if/when one breaker trips (or needs to be thrown in order to work on something), he won't be left in the dark.

This layout gives you an average of 67 FC and uniformity of 2.6:1, which is pretty good.

Actually, I think that layout leaves a LOT to be desired.

First, a goodly portion of the light in the "parking" area is being wasted, by being directly over the vehicles. How often do you need to brightly illuminate the roof of your car?

Second, given that "wastage", there is precious little light being put where it's actually needed, which is mostly around the perimeter of the vehicles. That second row of five "crossways" fixtures is in about the right place; but the first row (i.e., the one closer to the doors) should be dropped in favor of extending the "vertical" rows located between the vehicles. And given the three-car parking arrangement, I'd probably put a fourth row between the two right-side vehicles.

There is near-certainly too much "general purpose" light in the "workshop" area, vis-a-vis whatever task lighting will presumably be added.

The two-zone switching arrangement is a step in the right direction; but it doesn't go far enough. First, it lacks provision for "walk-through" lighting, as discussed previously. Second, once he gets fixtures in all the places he'll want them for working on the vehicles, the total amount of light they can produce will be high enough that he probably WON'T want to run all of them for just "casual" work. So splitting each "zone" (or at least the "vehicle zone") into at least two separate banks is in order.

I would recommend putting a fixture separately switched over your workbench.

This falls generally in the category of "task lighting"; and the specific arrangement required for that part of it will depend in large part on exactly how he sets up that workbench (particularly the presence or lack of upper wall cabinets). The rest of the task lighting will depend on what tools/machines he locates where; so it's rather impossible to predict that at this point.

Consider chain hanging the fixtures down to about 9’-0” above floor.

I view this as mostly counterproductive. As a general rule, you want the main lighting as high as possible (at least within reason), in order to give it the maximum chance of being evenly distributed by the time it gets down to "working level". Lowering the light sources concentrates the output of each fixture into a more tightly confined area, and thus leads to more of a "spotty"/"shadowy" result. Now granted, he only has 10-foot ceilings to start with, so the difference will not be huge; but still...

If you’ve a little extra money, think about installing ceiling mounting receptacles and plugging your fixtures into them.

This would require that the lights be on GFCI-protected circuits, which can lead to problems with some fluorescent fixtures. Plus, it creates an ugly rat's nest of power cords all over the ceiling. Surface-mounted "wrap" fixtures would give a much cleaner appearance.

That way, if you decide to rearrange your shop, you can rearrange your lighting without much effort.

True. But at least in terms of the general lighting (as opposed to the task lighting), if he gets it right to start with, there should be no need to rearrange it later.


I did a quick redraw with more lights. It seams a bit excessive to me but I thought I'd see what the reactions were.

Well, you're using more light than in "Version 1.0"; but that's about the only improvement I see. This plan suffers from many of the same problems I just described regarding "DwightS"'s layout. Put simply, too much of the light is in the wrong places.

I also put rough locations of the vehicles/ bikes.

Which I find confusing -- or at least curious -- for a couple of reasons. First, I suspect your vehicle images are NOT to scale (for example, the pickup truck seems to be about 22 feet long!). Secondly why are you only showing one vehicle in the "two-car" portion of the garage (i.e., the part serviced by the 15-foot door)?

All the other objects shown are some sort of machine or cabinets.

It might help if you were to put a little more thought into exactly what cabinets, machines, etc. you're going to have, and where they will be located. Particularly for the "workshop" part of the space, the general lighting required will be greatly influenced by the task lighting you wind up with. So the more you can nail the latter down, the easier it will be to determine the former.

BTW I appreciate everyone's input, I don't mind being told I'm out to lunch in my ideas

Good. Bear in mind too, part of the criticism you're getting is in the context of "playing Devil's Advocate"; it's not intended to be personal. Now is the time to thoroughly hash out ALL possible ideas.


I would suggest looking at the T5HO.

While they can be effective in true "High Bay" applications, I really dislike T5HO fixtures in situations with low-to-moderate ceiling heights. It inevitably leads to too much light concentrated into too small an area, which is generally the opposite of what is really needed.

The amount of light you posted above would give me a headache if using your car parking area and my fixtures dear god.

My point, precisely. The reason he needs more fixtures is not so much to get more light (well, in the context of his original sketch, only partially to get more light); but rather, to get that light evenly distributed throughout the "important" work areas. Even presuming F32T8s, by the time he has that requirement covered as well as possible, he'll have so much total light that he will likely want to implement "staged" multi-bank switching so as t not be faced with an "all or nothing" decision every time he walks into the garage.

 
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thetruck454

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The two-zone switching arrangement is a step in the right direction; but it doesn't go far enough. First, it lacks provision for "walk-through" lighting, as discussed previously. Second, once he gets fixtures in all the places he'll want them for working on the vehicles, the total amount of light they can produce will be high enough that he probably WON'T want to run all of them for just "casual" work. So splitting each "zone" (or at least the "vehicle zone") into at least two separate banks is in order.
I was thinking three circuits, basic light coverage for daily use mostly focusing on around the vehicles and the walk path to the door, then extra lights over the vehicle section, then extra lights over the work section

This would require that the lights be on GFCI-protected circuits, which can lead to problems with some fluorescent fixtures. Plus, it creates an ugly rat's nest of power cords all over the ceiling. Surface-mounted "wrap" fixtures would give a much cleaner appearance.

Per code for dedicated outlets like lights I don’t have to have gfci on the ceiling
Which I find confusing -- or at least curious -- for a couple of reasons. First, I suspect your vehicle images are NOT to scale (for example, the pickup truck seems to be about 22 feet long!). Secondly why are you only showing one vehicle in the "two-car" portion of the garage (i.e., the part serviced by the 15-foot door)?
I the vehicles are very close to scale, that truck is a crew cab with a 6’5” box. My wife and I only have two vehicles, the 15’ wide door was just because and it allows both mine and my wifes motorcycles to squeeze by the front of my truck. I commute with my bike starting in April and still ride now so the bikes are in use for about half the year.
It might help if you were to put a little more thought into exactly what cabinets, machines, etc. you're going to have, and where they will be located. Particularly for the "workshop" part of the space, the general lighting required will be greatly influenced by the task lighting you wind up with. So the more you can nail the latter down, the easier it will be to determine the former.
I’ll see what I can do, but I fully expect what I plan on and what happens to be different… noting goes to plan, haha
 

2ManyProjects

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I was thinking three circuits, basic light coverage for daily use mostly focusing on around the vehicles and the walk path to the door, then extra lights over the vehicle section, then extra lights over the work section

Three is better than two; but I'd probably go for at least four:

  1. Walk-through lighting; 2-4 fixtures, total, spaced throughout the entire area so as to provide at least SOME light more-or-less everywhere. Note that these fixtures can ALSO be part of your "main" lighting, used when working in one part or another of the garage.
  2. General lighting in the "workshop" area; as mentioned previously, you probably don't need a ton of fixtures/tubes for this, presuming that you will also have generous task lighting in that area.
  3. &
  4. At least two switch circuits for the "main" lighting in the vehicle area. The details will depend somewhat on the final fixture layout; but ideally, these two banks would be of significantly different sizes (i.e., have perhaps half-again to twice the number of tubes in one bank as the other). This way, you effectively have THREE illumination levels at your disposal.

This is, of course, in addition to the task lighting in the workshop area; but that's almost a whole separate discussion, for which we don't really have enough info yet.

And just to be clear: This is all in the context of SWITCH circuits, a.k.a. "banks". You will surely not need more than two actual circuits (i.e., breakers in the panel) for all of this.

Speaking of switching... Particularly if you have more than two (human) entry points to the space (which I think you do, at least if you count the vehicle doors), you might want to strongly consider using Insteon remote-control keypads or similar, in place of conventional "3-way"/"4-way" switching) which would likely wind up being VERY complicated, given all you'll have going on in this space. See http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3402397&postcount=7 for more details on Insteon, and examples of the sort of devices you'd use. Note that if you know going in that you're going to use Insteon switching/control, the wiring actually becomes simpler, particularly if you'll want/need to have multiple control locations. And of course, day-to-day operation becomes MUCH simpler.

Per code for dedicated outlets like lights I don’t have to have gfci on the ceiling

I won't swear to it; but I think that is wrong vis-a-vis the latest NEC.

I the vehicles are very close to scale, that truck is a crew cab with a 6’5” box. My wife and I only have two vehicles, the 15’ wide door was just because and it allows both mine and my wifes motorcycles to squeeze by the front of my truck. I commute with my bike starting in April and still ride now so the bikes are in use for about half the year.

OK. But you're going to need to decide NOW how many vehicles you plan to park in that part of the garage, at least at those times when you're going to be working on said vehicles. If you are certain that you will ALWAYS have only one vehicle on that side of the space, then you don't need the fourth "vertical" row of lights I suggested earlier, and the positions of the remaining ones can (probably should) change somewhat.

It might help if you were to put a little more thought into exactly what cabinets, machines, etc. you're going to have, and where they will be located. Particularly for the "workshop" part of the space, the general lighting required will be greatly influenced by the task lighting you wind up with. So the more you can nail the latter down, the easier it will be to determine the former.

I’ll see what I can do, but I fully expect what I plan on and what happens to be different… noting goes to plan, haha

Understood. But the more thought you put into it now, the better chance that whatever you wind up with will at least roughly resemble those thoughts, AND actually approximate what you need.

 
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bczygan

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A very nice analysis of this project by the posters above.

A garage is a difficult space to properly illuminate.

This thread addresses the difficulties and tries to solve the problems with finesse.

Providing light around parked vehicles, with an overhead door above them, so that you can also work on them isn't easy.

And balancing general illumination with task lighting is fun too.

One thing that the last plan has, is lights that are too close to the walls. Locating these lights so they provide general and even lighting beside vehicles may require moving them with the vehicles in place, to get the perfect location.
 
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