Evening Welding Course.

[petee_c]

I'm looking to take a welding course after perusing a few threads here on GJ.

I have a used Hobart Handler 120, have only done a little bit of FCAW with it. I want to move to MIG.

I have only made a dumbell stand out out of bed rails, and a snowmobile lift to put the tracks on a dolly; and kinda patched a hole in the deck of a free lawnmower...

With MIG,

I want to weld a new mostly stainless steel axle back exhaust for my project Miata, this is what it has on now....

and

my wife wants new grates for the propane bbq. (I have neglected the propane bbq since becoming a charcoal convert about 4 yrs ago)

The grates will be made with 5/16" SS rod, similiar to this:

There's a 12 week course starting in the new year, it's about 40 minutes away from me; Monday evenings from 6-11pm. Classroom from 6-7, hands on from 7-11....

https://studentportal.conestogac.on...mid=5&ssmid=0&MODId=1&Key=WELDING&CRSId=21322

$434 cdn pesos...

Sound like a decent deal? Course says no prerequisites required...

The local Praxair says that 2lbs of SS wire will be $30cdn, 80cuft of gas is $75, and a 1 yr lease of the bottle is $75....

 

[The Cobbler]

probably money well spent.
I would look at purchasing gas cylinder. I think they cost about $200

 

[lilredex]

Do it. You'll be better off for it. You might find five hour classes a bit much though.

I have been through a few courses, the best one was offered by MacDonald College (Mcgill) in Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue, when I lived in Montreal (1979). It covered both gas and stick. Instructor was a retired welder and a real gem.

Buy your tank, if you are going to be a welder.

My tank.

 

[dkroth]

That is a good deal.

The place near me is $495 for a 30 hour course.

https://www.rocafc.com/collections/welding-processes-mig/products/mig-welding-night-course

Having just completed the TIG course I'll mention that welding for 3 hours after a full day at work was just enough. If I had to go to 11 PM I might start thinking of it as less enjoyable. However, your course is only once per week where I was there Tuesday and Thursday.

But yes, do it. It's an enjoyable and social experience, too.





.

 

[gte718p]

Welding class is almost always worth the money. For no other reason then you get to put a lot of time on other people’s equipment and burn through a lot of consumables at an unbeatable price.

Welding stainless with a mig and keeping it stainless is a bit of a trick. The wire is expensive and doesn’t run well. Everything has to be very clean. If you just want to attach them and don’t care if they rust most stainless welds just like mild steel.

 

[petee_c]

That is a good deal.

The place near me is $495 for a 30 hour course.

https://www.rocafc.com/collections/welding-processes-mig/products/mig-welding-night-course

Having just completed the TIG course I'll mention that welding for 3 hours after a full day at work was just enough. If I had to go to 11 PM I might start thinking of it as less enjoyable. However, your course is only once per week where I was there Tuesday and Thursday.

But yes, do it. It's an enjoyable and social experience, too.

.

Thanks,

Yeah, I'm part time from home by choice, January they have me down for between 19-23 hrs per week. (I already had Monday's booked off, was going to maybe do some weekday skiing with the wife)

I will book Monday's off for Feb/March unless something else comes up.

I'm approaching 50, if I don't attend every single class, no biggie I suppose...

 

[90roadster]

stainless exhaust work is best done with a TIG, not to say MIG wouldn't get it done tho

 

[mxdev]

If you try the course at Conestoga, I would be curious if you found it valuable and what your impressions of it are.

Not sure where you source your metal for projects, but I like walk into Production Metals Steel Sales (Golden Triangle) in Cambridge and pick through their drops. Significantly cheaper than anything I found other than scrap.

I bought my welder and tank at Tri-Arc, which was I think a couple hundred for the tank, and refills are $40 or something for C25. I have also had luck dealing with Air Liquide and swapped out some cylinders I bought on Kijiji no questions asked.

 

[MoonRise]

Take the welding class.

As long as the instructor(s) are halfway decent and knowledgeable, you will (hopefully) learn.

Plus you get to use their machine(s) and consumables.

But regarding your desire to weld stainless steel with your Hobart 120, yes you can do that.

With the proper consumables.

Meaning stainless filler wire and tri-mix gas. To help keep the stainless steel actually stainless after welding.

(you can weld stainless with 'plain' carbon steel wire and CO2 or C25 gas, and it will usually weld. But the welds will not really be stainless, to varying degrees.)

Stainless exhaust pipe with a MIG is not always so easy. Practice, practice, practice before attempting to weld your actual exhaust pieces.

And 5/16" rod is a little bit past the power capabilities of most 120-class 120V MIG machine.

That's past the listed parameter chart listings I see for the 120V MIG machines I looked up. Most of them list up to 14 or 16 gauge steel as the upper limit with GMAW. And that's about where I find them to actually be able to weld.

(skilled welder with some 'tricks', like massive preheat, might get a typical 120V machine to maybe go to 1/4" thick steel with GMAW and get good fusion/penetration. 5/16" though? Even with just rods, that's a bit thicker than I'd go for with a 120V welder on GMAW.)

It's past the listed parameter chart listings for a 175-class GMAW running on 240V input power.

Move up to something like a Lincoln 210MP running on 240V input power, and 5/16" steel (carbon OR stainless) is listed on the on the door parameter chart as doable.

(FCAW runs 'hotter' than GMAW, thus it can usually weld thicker material than when using GMAW on the same machine)

Just some FYI before you get all locked-in on trying to weld 5/16" steel with your 120V machine.

Just means you have to buy another welder.

 

[zkling]

What is the wall thickness of the exhaust tubing?

I may skip the class and instead get a roll of soild steel wire and a bottle of 75/25. Learn mig on steel and then switch over to stainless.

Learning on a full size machine as they will likely have at the class will be easier than the 120, especially if you are going to be working at the lower end of it's capability range (thickness / amp wise).

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

Petee Thanks for reminding me to sign up for a welding class.
I generally try to sign up but find it is already full.
Not this time. 2 Saturdays starting March 14th. 9:00-4:00. $295
This should get a guy started. I would have preferred shorter days just more of them.

 

[WoodsTruck]

I took a welding class in college. Money well spent since we covered silver solder, oxy-acetylene, DC stick for steel and aluminum, MIG, TIG, and something else. Just a lot of information with a good group of guys and 1 gal. Turns out I went to school with her in another town. Talk about competition, no one wanted to be beat by the girl...

I wouldn't get hugely concerned with welding the 5/16" of the grille rods, afterall, it is only a grille that has virtually no structure requirements. If it were me, I'd build a jig out of wood and drop it by a guy's place that can TIG SS. The jig would make it super easy for him to tack everything up.

 

[sberry]

Sticks.

 

[Boilerhouse]

Take the course, you won't regret it. You my wish to double check but the course fees may be tax deductible as an education expense.

 

[fordkid88]

Take the course. I recently went back to school for a full fabrication program, as proficient as i was ive learned so much more.

 

[welder4956]

What is the wall thickness of the exhaust tubing?

I may skip the class and instead get a roll of soild steel wire and a bottle of 75/25. Learn mig on steel and then switch over to stainless.

Learning on a full size machine as they will likely have at the class will be easier than the 120, especially if you are going to be working at the lower end of it's capability range (thickness / amp wise).

Good assessment, lots of people I work with that are not welders buy the 115V machines and have problems using them. I suggest taking the machine to class with you so they can help you set it up and get used to the settings. Use their shielding gas so you don't have to transport a gas cylinder to class and back.

 

[PhantomEB]

You never can go wrong with taking a welding class.

I did it before I got into the trades, did more during my apprenticeship. I don’t do it for work but I sure do find it relaxin. Can’t wait to get more set up and able to kick back at my table with a rod in hand.

 

[welder4956]

And 5/16" rod is a little bit past the power capabilities of most 120-class 120V MIG machine.

That's past the listed parameter chart listings I see for the 120V MIG machines I looked up. Most of them list up to 14 or 16 gauge steel as the upper limit with GMAW. And that's about where I find them to actually be able to weld.

(skilled welder with some 'tricks', like massive preheat, might get a typical 120V machine to maybe go to 1/4" thick steel with GMAW and get good fusion/penetration. 5/16" though? Even with just rods, that's a bit thicker than I'd go for with a 120V welder on GMAW.)

It's past the listed parameter chart listings for a 175-class GMAW running on 240V input power.

Move up to something like a Lincoln 210MP running on 240V input power, and 5/16" steel (carbon OR stainless) is listed on the on the door parameter chart as doable.

(FCAW runs 'hotter' than GMAW, thus it can usually weld thicker material than when using GMAW on the same machine)

Just some FYI before you get all locked-in on trying to weld 5/16" steel with your 120V machine.

Just means you have to buy another welder.

He would be making tack welds on the round rods, not full penetration welds. I agree that a 115V machine would not do well making full penetration welds on 5/16" thick material. But this is round rods, not plate, and a tack weld on a grill will not need as much current/voltage as full pen on a plate. With 0.030" wire he may need to run at the upper end of the voltage and wire feed speed settings, but I think tack welds on 5/16" rod are doable.

FWIW, I don't like 115V machines either because of their limitations and always recommend buying a 220V machine to the home hobby welders. The 115V machines tend to trip 15A breakers a lot and need at least a 20-25A breaker.

 

[sberry]

120v machine, 023 on some 1/4 scrap to test it. Left a little gap so the edges melt. Was just a little test piece, could have been done a little better but it was to find out where wide open was.

 

[myredracer]

Taking a course and buying your own MIG setup is a good idea, but if you've only got those projects to do and not sure if you'll do much MIG welding from now on, maybe you'd be better off to find someone to do the welding for you, esp. the 5/16" stainless. The thickest I've welded with my Miller 135 is 3/16" and even then, you have to pay attention to get proper welds. Some grades of stainless can be MIG welded and some can't.

There's tons of youtube vids to learn from. But there's tons of them that have really bad advice and it can be hard to learn what's right and wrong in the beginning. There's many websites & forums that are good. Weldingtipsandtricks.com is one that comes to mind. Welding 1/8" - 3/16" or so of steel is pretty straightforward with a small MIG welder. If your weld beads end up being a bit untidy, you can just take a grinder to them to smooth out. Thin sheet metal takes a LOT of practice and patience. For 1/4" and above, that's stick territory.

My 120 volt 135 amp MIG welder has been indispensable for restoring two cars I've been working on and one of my best investments. Once you have one, it's like all of a sudden you realize there's all kinds of stuff you can make you never thought of.

 

[bczygan]

Get all the seat time you can!!!

Bill

 

[Fix Until Broke]

Just another option to consider...Put off the MIG class and take a TIG class instead. Once you get the feel for independent control of heat, feed and travel in the TIG process, all the other processes get easier. Wire (MIG) is almost too easy - if you can put toothpaste on a toothbrush or use a culking gun without it looking like a disaster, then you can functionally MIG weld. But making quality MIG welds is another story. With TIG, it may not look like a perfect stack of dimes, but it will be a stronger weld than a pretty looking MIG that has no penetration but looks good.

I wire welded (hobby stuff) for 20 years before I took a TIG class. I became a much better wire welder after I learned TIG.

Either way, take the class - just don't be scared of trying TIG first if that opportunity presents itself.

 

[sberry]

I am a career welder, can use any of them and could get by with wire for most of it. So much easier and faster.

 

[BD1]

For real stainless welding tri mix is the best gas . I say use .023 wire too.
A 220 volt machine would definitely be better or a multi vote 110/220 if you don't have 22o yet.

 

[petee_c]

If you try the course at Conestoga, I would be curious if you found it valuable and what your impressions of it are.

Followup on the class.

The class started sometime in January, and was supposed to run to about Easter.

However, that got messed up because of COVID19.

I ended up getting about 2/3rds to 3/4's of the class in...

Overall the instructor was good, the 1hr of class time was a little bit of a sleeper....

There were about 10 guys in my class. We used full size mig machines.

I didn't get that much out of the 1st couple class sections. I was just buzzing metal together, with no idea if I was doing it right or wrong. Apparently my gun angle was wrong because I was getting a bunch of splatter.

The instructor stayed at his desk and I realized I needed to come to him for feedback. So I wised up and started bringing him my weld samples. I would generally do about an inch at a time, and then bring them up for feed back. He provided good feedback which helped my welding improve.

I told him that my main goal at this time was to weld up an exhaust, and that I was more interested in the thinner coupons than the 1/4" stuff he had us working on. He found me some thinner coupons and I would spend my time welding those together.

I also practised welding corner joints.

I had great difficulty in seeing the joints I was welding... I had the shop mask dialed back to 9 shade. I also brought in my HF LED light and had it in my booth which helped.

I usually got about 2hrs of welding in each night. I generally decided to clean up my booth shortly after the 1st break. They would seem to fill in alot of time by doing multipass fillet welds to save on materials. I had no interest in that.

I had enough shop time after a 90-120mins of buzzing, any more after that, I figure I would just be developing bad habits because of fatigue.

The last 4 classes got postponed.... they are likely to get cancelled...

Overall, I'd say I got 6-7/10 for being satisfied with the class. I wish the class time was more interactive.... we were just going through the provided course booklets.

Peter

 

[G-ManBart]

Overall, I'd say I got 6-7/10 for being satisfied with the class. I wish the class time was more interactive.... we were just going through the provided course booklets.

It seems like this sort of class really varies a lot depending upon the instructor. Some just sit back and run through the material and others try to find out what you're really interested in learning and adjust to the students. It sounds like your instructor might be the first type.

Out of curiosity, what model welders were they using?

 

[petee_c]

It seems like this sort of class really varies a lot depending upon the instructor. Some just sit back and run through the material and others try to find out what you're really interested in learning and adjust to the students. It sounds like your instructor might be the first type.



Out of curiosity, what model welders were they using?

I don't Remember the model specifically. They were big and red so probably Lincoln with a separate machine for the wire feed.

All the welding we did was with c25 gas.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

 

[G-ManBart]

I don't Remember the model specifically. They were big and red so probably Lincoln with a separate machine for the wire feed.

All the welding we did was with c25 gas.

Gotcha. A local trade school just shut down and they were running all Lincoln PowerMIG 255 XT for MIG, but it sounds like you were using the big boys!

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, A good welding course can provide you with the entry requirements for a well paying career.

Additionally it will enable you to pursue creative options.

 

[pi_guy]

I have found the more your participate the more you get out of it. Often teachers want you to approach them and engage them in what your doing. I was lucky became friends with one of my welding teachers in the 70's we had mutual friends, but I was able to keep learning from him for a few more years.
I have a few people that want me to show them welding processes, I will run the sessions when the air clears.