Everhot manifold help

[Dave28]

I need some input on bleeding my manifold. *@#$I have an Everhot 6 branch stainless manifold and I think I still have air in the system. I can't get the readings on my mixing valves to change. All the red indicators are all the way at the top and no matter where i turn the valve they stay at the top. A few of the site glasses have some water in them, one is full and 2 appear to be empty. *@#$Should these all be full to the top? Any help is greatly appreciated.*@#$
Thanks,
Dave

 

[Dave28]

I could still use some help balancing the manifold. All my flow meters are pegged at the top no matter where I turn them. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[gurumanjohn]

Dave - Have you gotten any help on your manifold balancing problem? I can't find any replies to it and I'm having exactly the same problem, except that I can't figure how how to use the return side valves and the supply side flow meters together to improve flow as the Everhot site suggests you can.

 

[Dave28]

John - I haven't received and response from Everhot which I emailed them 6 weeks ago. I also tried calling them during business hours and all I got was an answering machine. I left a message but never heard back from them. To me that is some poor customer service.

 

[gurumanjohn]

Dave - I've had the same experience. It's the same with Pex Universe and Pex Supply. When I bought the manifold from Pex Universe it arrived without the compression fittings. After three weeks trying to reach them, I finally got someone who said they'd be shipped right out. Two weeks later when they hadn't arrived, I stopped payment on the manifold. Then I finally got them.

I'm sorry you haven't gotten any replies because I have a similar problem. But perhaps you can answer a question for me. How do you use the combination of the valves on the return side with the flow meters on the supply side to regulate the flow? Are the flow meters adjustable? And does the + sign on the return valves mean more flow? A plumber told me he thought it meant less flow, so I'm confused.

By the way, is it possible your problem is caused by air still in the system? I'm pretty sure mine is.

 

[Dave28]

It's funny you mention Pex Universe. I called them once looking for some help on purchasing a pump and was told that any questions have to be emailed to them. It took them almost a week to reply. Seems funny they list a phone number but you can't talk to anyone there. I spent over a $1000 with them and had a question on another purchase and they tell me to email them? While their prices are very reasonable their customer service line leaves little to be desired.

As far as my balancing valves on my manifold go I have mine wide open. Right now I am having trouble getting decent flow. I am only flowing about .1 GPM. I am about 99% sure I have all the air is out of the system. I beleive this is due to the pump being to small. I plan to put a larger pump in as soon as I get some extra cash.

 

[koditten]

Guys, do you have an IR temp gun? You will have better luck using temperature to give you feed back. These thermomometers are getting quite cheap and you will find uses for it elsware.

KO

 

[Dave28]

I do have a temp gun. Got it for $20 at Homedepot. My floor temp is around 70. Air temp right around 60.

 

[gurumanjohn]

Dave - Which position is "open" on your valves? Is it completely "unscrewed" or completely "screwed down"? Also, have you tried adjusting your flow meters by unscrewing them a bit? When I do that, the flow increases, so they actually act not just as a meter, but also as a valve. It's worth a try.

 

[Dave28]

Unscrewing them opens them up. I have tried adjusting the flow meters and it doesn't change unless I clOse it completely then I get zero flow. I am convinced as KenB told me the pump is to small for 1200 feet of 1/2" tubing.

 

[gurumanjohn]

Dave - If it's any help, I consulted with the chief engineer at Tasco to select my pump. I'm using 250 feet of 1/2 inch pex to heat a greehouse. He recommended the Tasco 009 which can service 35 ft of head. Yours sounds like it will take a much larger pump with more head. Another option he suggested was to cut the single loop I have in half to create 2 125 ft loops serviced by the same pump. This would reduce friction and head loss. Perhaps you are losing to much through pipe friction. I'm no expert,but just passing along the suggestions of one.

 

[Dave28]

I am going to upgrade to the Grundfos UPS26-99FC. It is 1/6th HP, 29ft of head and 33GPM.

 

[rburke65]

I've been looking at the Everhot products, but if they won't answer the phone or their emails.......giving me great pause now. Thanks for bringing up the issues with this company.

 

[Dave28]

It's a very nice looking manifold and the price was great but I could never get them to answer the phone or email me. I am going to try calling tomorrow and see what happens.

 

[overdriv]

With a floor temp of 70, and an air temp of 60, it would indicate you are putting a lot of heat in the floor but have a lot of heat loss.

Is your garage insulated? if yes, how much where?

The little cheesy flow meters are about useless. Open the inlet manifold and outlet manifold valves full open. When the pump runs, thermostat calling for heat, balance your return temps with the inlet manifold valves. Make small adjustments and wait for the change. This may take some time but the results are worth it.

You can shoot for a 15-20 degree drop between the inlet temps and the outlet temps. Measured on the tubes for balancing. Measure on the manifold inlet and outlet for your average drop.

Did you ever post a picture of your system? If you did, link me to it so I can see what you have.

 

[Dave28]

Overdriv,

The garage is 8" concrete block that is below grade in the front and above grade it the rear. I have yet to insulate the exposed walls but hope to do that soon. You are correct that the flow meters do seem really cheesy. I have tried everything to get the flow up but from what a lot of people have told me I think the pump is not big enough.

I have another thread going on here on what I would like to do now. http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133478
I'd appreciate any feedback you have on this.

Dave

 

[overdriv]

I have no experience with tankless heaters but it appears you got some very good advice in that thread.

How many loops do you have and how long is each one?

What pump do you have now?

Overdriv,

The garage is 8" concrete block that is below grade in the front and above grade it the rear. I have yet to insulate the exposed walls but hope to do that soon. You are correct that the flow meters do seem really cheesy. I have tried everything to get the flow up but from what a lot of people have told me I think the pump is not big enough.

I have another thread going on here on what I would like to do now. http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133478
I'd appreciate any feedback you have on this.

Dave

 

[Dave28]

I have 5 loops ranging from around 210 - 250' each. Right now I have a Grundfos UPS15-58 1/25hp pump.

 

[overdriv]

That is the same pump I have and I have 5 loops, 4 of them are 300' and the 5th is about 200'.

I run my pump on low speed and it does a great job. I have to throttle the short loop to get the same temp drop as the other 4 loops.

 

[Dave28]

overdriv,

What kind of flow are you getting with that pump. Going by the meters on my manifold I barely get .1 GPM. LoopCad is saying my flow should be around .5 - .6

 

[overdriv]

overdriv,

What kind of flow are you getting with that pump. Going by the meters on my manifold I barely get .1 GPM. LoopCad is saying my flow should be around .5 - .6

I have this manifold.

The flow meters are questionable, I do not go by them at all. I use a IR temp gun. You would be wise to do the same. If your pump is running and you have the valves on your loop open, all air purged, you are flowing water.

On low speed, the flow meters just barely show a flow, not even to .1 yet. On high speed with all 5 loops wide open, the flow meters show 1.0-something in between 1.5.

But, on high the water circulates through the loops so fast that there is hardly a temp drop across the floor.

If you would post a picture of your setup, you would get more help. I am far from a expert, I am still in my first full winter with this heat. I have mine set so it shows a 15-20 degrees temp drop across the floor.

Today it got up to 23*F over night and yesterday the wind blew and we got about 2" of snow, temps were in the low teens. My floor is 70* and the air in the shop is 64*. Thermostat is set for 64* air temp.

I post these facts so maybe you can get closer to where you need to be.

 

[overdriv]

I need some input on bleeding my manifold. *@#$I have an Everhot 6 branch stainless manifold and I think I still have air in the system. I can't get the readings on my mixing valves to change. All the red indicators are all the way at the top and no matter where i turn the valve they stay at the top. A few of the site glasses have some water in them, one is full and 2 appear to be empty. *@#$Should these all be full to the top? Any help is greatly appreciated.*@#$
Thanks,
Dave

Dave, I apologize, I just went back and read your initial post.

I shut all my valves off on my supply manifold but one. I then turned the pump on high and listened to the air separator till it was quiet. Then opened the next valve till the separator went quiet. After doing that to all loops, I turned all the valves wide open and circulated water for a couple of hours. I heard a bit of air release once in a while for the first 10 min., but after that the separator was quiet.

Mine is a open system with city water pressure, 52 PSI, on it all the time so it stays full all the time.

I hope this helps.

 

[Dave28]

I think not putting an air valve in my system is one place I messed up. While I THINK I got all the air out I am not 100% sure. From all the research I did it looks like the pressure should only be around 15 - 20 PSI.

 

[overdriv]

I think not putting an air valve in my system is one place I messed up. While I THINK I got all the air out I am not 100% sure. From all the research I did it looks like the pressure should only be around 15 - 20 PSI.

So you are running a closed system then? I think an air valve is the best and easiest way to remove air from your system. All flow meters should be full. If they are not, then you have air in the system and that is a problem. Once the air works it's way to the pump, then no water circulation.

On a closed system, with an expansion tank, the tank will absorb any water expansion that may occur from heating the water.