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Evil Tungsten...say what?

Bolster

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Seriously, read about this in the WSJ today. Barney Frank inserted a "reporting clause" into a recently passed law, forcing manufacturers to report (with the likely goal to force limitations on) the use of tungsten. Why? Because it comes from Central Africa, and there are various conflicts in Central Africa. So, according to congress, WE are the problem because we're supporting Africans by buying tungsten in drills and bits...It's "blood tungsten." Photos are shown of "evil" products such as drill bits and end mills. Quote: the law "aims to pressure companies to spurn so-called conflict minerals--tin, tantalum, tungsten or gold..." Moral crusading run amok? (Again?) Should we be hoarding bits? Or writing to our representatives in congress..."Please, Master, don't take away my drill bits?" Seriously, WTF?
 
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alex71

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there is no end to the stupidity. if all [tungsten] carbide tooling were to disappear overnight, worldwide manufacturing capacity would be adversely affected in a major way.
 
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Bolster

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Nobody in congress gives a rat's patooty about that...they want to force the Africans to be nice to each other by us not buying anything from them. Examine that chain of logic for a moment, and reflect on the boundless wisdom of it.

090112_r18105_p233.jpg


Does Bawney Fwank wook wike he cawes about your dwill bits?

(And don't even ask what Bawney thinks an "end mill" is used for...)
 
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Theloniousmonk

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Um... they are not limiting importing of the metal, industry already is putting reporting in place READ the whole story... Here is an excerpt:

"Dodd-Frank won't ban sourcing from this neighborhood. But it will require companies to disclose whether they get their minerals from the Democratic Republic of Congo (the old Zaire) or any of the countries at its borders, and if so, to detail any steps they're taking so as not to "directly or indirectly finance or benefit armed groups" in the region. The Securities and Exchange Commission is due to detail the requirement in April, giving central African mining operations four months to establish tracking systems that will let firms tell the SEC their products are "conflict free."

Before President Obama signed Dodd-Frank in July, industry and development groups were already working on protocols to trace and tag minerals from central Africa's conflict zones. The sweeping U.S. rule not only gives them the April deadline, but means that even peaceful mining areas will have to demonstrate they're not acting as conduits for illicit trade, or else lose access to legitimate markets."

The diamond trade has done similar things over the last 30 years... this "law" is a moot point really that will not effect anything.
Most of our imported tung. comes from china and russia... africa accounts for a pretty small % of global supply, iirc.


The article is also listed under the analysis/observation section of the website, with a healthy dose of writer's beliefs/personal analysis inserted.
 
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Bolster

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Um... they are not limiting importing of the metal, industry already is putting reporting in place READ the whole story... Here is an excerpt:

Um...

...ever hear of the camel's nose? Why don't YOU read the WSJ story?

"...the Dodd-Frank financial law passed in july, aims to pressure companies to spurn so-caled conflict minerals--tin, tantalum, tungsten or gold..."

"Companies that fail to verify their sources can still sell their products, but could face embarrassment..." Do I need to translate this tired old formula? Protestors outside their factories. News organizations swoop in and make stories about those evil drill bit manufacturers. After manufacturers voluntarily ditch African sources (which they will) the law will be expanded to outlaw their use...

"Industry groups say the measure could backfire by forcing companies to halt all use of minerals from Central Africa..."

Even bill supporters admit the creation of a black market...

Why do you suppose major manufacturers are lining up against this "harmless little law"?
 
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Theloniousmonk

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Yes, "Pressure" and "No longer allowed by law, to purchase said minerals from conflict hot zones where 200k women are raped and 1000's of children killed." are two different things.

Seriously man, don't worry about it. I'm not. China is still the single largest supplier of tungsten in the world anyway.

Any company/organization that knowingly supports/buys/trades with badguys s/b embarrassed. Oooh... embarrassed, that's not really harsh at all.

I also wasn't pointing my "Read the whole story" at you, Bolster...sorry if i offended you, it was more of a suggestion for everybody else.

and shouldn't this be in free parking or somethign?
 
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jmauld

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No problem. We can let china buy it from Africa, manufacture it into products and be happy with ourselves.
 
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Bolster

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Yes, "Pressure" and "No longer allowed by law, to purchase said minerals from conflict hot zones where 200k women are raped and 1000's of children killed." are two different things.

So you agree with the idea that not buying from Africans will force them be nicer to each other? A sort of "poverty makes people nice" theory? What a crock.

Seriously man, don't worry about it. I'm not. China is still the single largest supplier of tungsten in the world anyway.

Any company/organization that knowingly supports/buys/trades with badguys s/b embarrassed. Oooh... embarrassed, that's not really harsh at all.

Oh sure, no chance that China would restrict a vital mineral. They're our bestest buddies. And for the record, I am NOT embarrassed to buy goods from Africans. There are bad guys all over the world, who are you and Barney to decide who's good and who's bad?

And I totally disagree with the crockified thinking that "if I buy from Africa I'm supporting ****."
 
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Theloniousmonk

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So you agree with the idea that not buying from Africans will force them be nicer to each other? A sort of "poverty makes people nice" theory? What a crock.



Oh sure, no chance that China would restrict a vital mineral. They're our bestest buddies. And for the record, I am NOT embarrassed to buy goods from Africans. There are bad guys all over the world, who are you and Barney to decide who's good and who's bad?

Uh, no, not really, and no, and where did you get that idea, and why are you focusing on me & my opinion... I'm sure you are a much more informed source on these matters than I am... so why don't you let me have my opinion that this isn't a big deal and move on?:beer:
 
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Bolster

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Fine. But I will point out that this sort of economic bullying is exactly why nations hate the US. We pick a moral target, we support our flawless logic with namecalling (they're rapists); we pass a law; and whammo, we send a bunch of harmless Africans (the guys working in the mines) into poverty...and buy from the Chinese instead. All because Barney got his undies in a knot.

Not to mention the "unintended consequence" of our machine bits either getting more expensive, more scarce, or more dull.

Y'all do recollect that a while ago, congress was considering outlawing any TOOL that could be used to work on guns? Until some 'evil' lobbyist explained to them they'd be outlawing every lathe and mill and hacksaw in the land.
 
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bgott

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There ought to be plenty of tungsten around for a good price even with this idiotic law in place, we aren't going to be able to buy incandescent (tungsten) light bulbs anymore because of another idiotic law, remember?
 

Theloniousmonk

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There ought to be plenty of tungsten around for a good price even with this idiotic law in place, we aren't going to be able to buy incandescent (tungsten) light bulbs anymore because of another idiotic law, remember?

Because China is the single largest exporter in the world. US has deposits too, but afaik doesn't export them.

2007 Tungsten Production Simple Breakdown (2% Other includes everybody else not named)
tungstenchart1.jpg


That article was skewed, imo, part of the reason I no longer read the Journal...Some say one can't count on what is written in there anymore, bad info may equal a bad investment decision.

Here is a better source of info:

http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/tungsten/stat/
 
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Bolster

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Jumping back in to correct some misinformation that's crept into this thread. The line that "Tungsten mainly comes from China so don't worry" is misinformed on several counts. First is that China has the ability (and motivation) to cut off supply in a moment, if it suits them. Second is that tungsten is a mineral whose sources of supply vary dramatically over the years. China is the current big producer (in large part because China is not afraid to mine for minerals). Previously Russia was the big producer. What industry and investors look at, is: Where's the NEXT big source, when the current source vanishes? What happens when China gets more belligerent, as is starting now? All eyes are looking at Africa for the future of vital minerals.

And then you have politicians who are looking for popular stances to assume, and decide to choke off future African sources by removing the US from their marketplace now (through "voluntary" means of moralizing and shaming industry into compliance). This moral cloaking is pure Saul Alinsky: "do what you can with what you have and clothe it with moral arguments." It works on a lot of people, though. Use the word "moral" and the gullible jump onto the hook. Personally I find Frank's economic bullying immoral, and will have consequences of

- retarding African development,
- increasing our dependence for vital minerals on an increasingly hostile China,
- increasing prices (and decreasing quality) of tooling here at home, and
- further gutting America's weak and faltering industrial base.

It's another bad idea from the very same senator who is most responsible for the mortgage mess.

Regarding the denigration of the WSJ as a source...you're free to read Daily Kos, Huffington Post, and Das Kapital as your investment guides if you want...who cares.

If the bill goes through, I will be searching out tools made with African tungsten and proudly buying them, in defiance of our increasingly ridiculous, moralizing nanny state that insists on creating more self-inflicted wounds. Bring on the African tungsten!
 
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