exceeding 90 psi on air tools

[johnsdeere850j]

Alright, I have been wondering about this for years. How hard is it on air tools to exceed the air pressure (PSI) rating on the tool? For example, my ingersoll rand 2141 3/4" impact i have has run on 150 psi for a year or so now with a lot of use, still going strong. Snap on guy and I were talking the other day and he said it is hard on the tool to exceed that 90 psi most specify. Can anyone confirm this? Or is that a myth.

 

[oldjacks]

If that is what you have to do to get the job done, then I think you should consider the next size tool up for your job. Exceeding the manufacturers recommendations is fine till you have a failure then it will probably mean a new tool. It reminds me of using regular sockets for impact use which clearly many people do but that doesn't make it right.

 

[mrholeshot]

I can't think of any commercial shop that runs on 90psi. I've run 175 as long as I remember and seems to have had no problems with durability. I'm sure in some way it has some neg effect as far as seals and such but the added performance to the tool is well worth the risk. I havent had any problems with my IR impacts. I'm more concerned with moisture than the increased pressure.

 

[crankshaftdan II]

If that is what you have to do to get the job done, then I think you should consider the next size tool up for your job. Exceeding the manufacturers recommendations is fine till you have a failure then it will probably mean a new tool. It reminds me of using regular sockets for impact use which clearly many people do but that doesn't make it right.

90 P.S.I. is usually the recommened pressure, fudge factor of + 10% is usually figured into the tool. Anything past that is going to blow out the "O" rings/seals, higher rpms for more power will wreak havoic on the vanes and end plates with fastr wear and gradual loss of power. The dogs or impact mechanisms will start to pit and spall and will break down or the anvil will prematuraly break. They don't make them like the older tools with brass endplates and quality heat treated hammer mechanisms and quality steel parts. Like previously stated, step up to a larger size tool if you need the added torque or probably will have to buy a new tool if you keep using high pressure.

 

[cortez]

I would say most tire shops (and mechanic shops?) are way over 90 pounds as I always have to use a cheater bar with a breaker bar to get them loose to torque them right and apply anti seize. I would say the minimum these shops use is 125 pounds.

Even if you request a certain torque they say OK but over tighten anyway.

 

[Damian]

I can't think of any commercial shop that runs on 90psi. I've run 175 as long as I remember and seems to have had no problems with durability. I'm sure in some way it has some neg effect as far as seals and such but the added performance to the tool is well worth the risk. I havent had any problems with my IR impacts. I'm more concerned with moisture than the increased pressure.

This.

If I was forced to use 90psi all the time I'd just lock my air tools up and use my hands. When you do it for a living, you can see just how weak 90psi can be sometimes. You'd also be amazes at what some tools are capable of with more air. My IR 2115ti 3/8" with 150psi has more balls than a lot of 1/2" guns @ 90psi. My 1/2" 2135ti is hardly ever used thanks to the 2115ti.

We run 150-160psi through the lines in my shop. My IR guns are a few years old and with daily abuse have given me no trouble. Hell, I've got a stubby HF 3/8" ratchet wrench I use ALL the time and never have any trouble out of it either. The 150psi gives it wings. lol

I'd be more concerned about using a good air tool lube on a daily basis rather than running "too much" air through them. I oil my tools EVERY morning before getting started.

 

[crewchief888]

all the dealerships ive ever worked at were running line pressures of at least 150 psi, one as high as 200psi.
at that shop i used my impacts constantly, i replaced them every 10 years or so anyway, new one at work, old guns got home garage use.

 

[MattT]

First off a static pressure higher than 90psi isn't necessarily over 90 at the tool running. People who think they're running a good bit over 90psi may actually be using 90 or lower.

Personally I keep the reg at 95psi unless I need more power then the tool gets 125 psi tank pressure which is probably close to 90 at my 1/2" impact. Isn't worth the extra tool wear and risks*. Limiting air consumption is also a consideration for me since I'm limited to 110v.

*Running grinders over 90psi you'll be exceeding the rated speed of some attachments. Exploding wheels ain't fun. [wafrederick]My Snap-on dealer told me he'd heard about a tech getting killed by an overpressured impact exploding when I bought my IM31.[/wafrederick] I don't know for sure the story is true but I'm not taking the chance.

 

[diesel research]

First off a static pressure higher than 90psi isn't necessarily over 90 at the tool running. People who think they're running a good bit over 90psi may actually be using 90 or lower.

My IR-TI 1" D handle runs ~175, if the compressor could run 200, I would.

MattT hit the nail on the head. Those are not static line pressures, but rather pressures at the gun while running.

Between line losses, fitting losses, and losses at the trigger, pressure could be significantly less at the motor.

That gun has ran daily for 3 years. The high moisture content certainly doesn't help matters any, nor does having the air fittings packed full of dirt, but it's just the way it goes.

Air die grinder, thundergun, air drill, grease gun, and other tools run off the same air supply as well.

 

[bobcatdan]

Most of my air tools are 10 -12 year old USA made Mac (IR?). Oiled maybe once or twice a year and always what ever a 175 psi compressor is pushing. Haven't failed.

 

[chadster1]

I don't think that there is a shop in my router that runs 90psi

 

[klhitman]

at our shop we run what ever the regulated will put out. in my area i have two regulators on is maxed at 100 psi and the other is 85 psi(really need to change that one out) but you would be surprised how the 20 psi makes a diff on grinders, drills and impacts. i want to tap in to the feed line and do with out the regs but boss man wont let me. here at home i am running around 120 psi.

 

[MrMark]

First off a static pressure higher than 90psi isn't necessarily over 90 at the tool running. People who think they're running a good bit over 90psi may actually be using 90 or lower.

Personally I keep the reg at 95psi unless I need more power then the tool gets 125 psi tank pressure which is probably close to 90 at my 1/2" impact. Isn't worth the extra tool wear and risks*. Limiting air consumption is also a consideration for me since I'm limited to 110v.

*Running grinders over 90psi you'll be exceeding the rated speed of some attachments. Exploding wheels ain't fun. [wafrederick]My Snap-on dealer told me he'd heard about a tech getting killed by an overpressured impact exploding when I bought my IM31.[/wafrederick] I don't know for sure the story is true but I'm not taking the chance.

LOL @ the triple hearsay reference.

I do the same. I adjust the static pressure to whatever it takes to get the gun to at least 90. I have no problem taking the gun or ratchet to 100, over that I would not do. To get running pressure to 100 on an air hog like a 3/8 SO ratchet or a 1/2 impact, I need to turn the regulator all the way up to 125.

 

[shampoop]

it makes such a massive improvement in power to run over 90 psi. For a while I had only ever used my 1/2" IR at school and loved it. It's this one http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00919274000P?prdNo=22&blockNo=22&blockType=G22

Only rated at 600ft/lbs but had plenty of power to do ANYTHING. It can seriously mess stuff up easy. Then i used it at my friends house on his compressor at 90psi. I had assumed that's what my school ran. I seriously thought my gun was broken. It is soooo weak at 90psi that it could barely achieve any common easy 1/2" gun tasks. My 3/8 gun on shop air was much more powerful.

 

[4x4gearhead]

I work on borderline heavy equipment and our shop runs like 150 also, I use impacts and a lot of air tools for longer durations than you would in a lot of automotive applications and I havent had any trouble with my air tools, granted I buy IR and certain snap on pneumatics. 90 psi is realistic in a "perfect world" but, professional use = pushing the boundaries a little.

 

[Greatbear]

I will crank up my pressure beyond the 100psi I have set (before the hose) in rare cases where something is stubborn. Never a problem (yet).

 

[Ritter4.0]

In the shop I work in, every drop has its own regulator. I run mine around 70-80psi. This makes using an air sander much more tolerable. It doesn't affect my air drills or die grinder a lot, the slower rpm makes it easier to drill too. All my tools are quieter this way too. I never have to use impacts or anything that really needs a lot of pressure.

 

[Marlin]

The 90 psi rating is the pressure at the inlet of the tool while it is running at free speed. While most shops have a high static pressure, the pressure at the tool while it is running drops significantly due to the length and size of piping and hose and number of quick disconnects.

 

[pipsters]

Are there any small inline regulators you can run that will handle higher flow usage tools? IE up to around 50 CFM? I'd like to forgo the tank gauge and run tank pressure all the way up to my tool then put an inline regulator on it right before you connect the tool. I found inline ones that are low flow, 5 CFM, but none that will do high volume tools. It just makes sense to run full PSI up until you connect the tool instead of restricting it right when it comes out of the tank.

 

[Ritter4.0]

Are there any small inline regulators you can run that will handle higher flow usage tools? IE up to around 50 CFM? I'd like to forgo the tank gauge and run tank pressure all the way up to my tool then put an inline regulator on it right before you connect the tool. I found inline ones that are low flow, 5 CFM, but none that will do high volume tools. It just makes sense to run full PSI up until you connect the tool instead of restricting it right when it comes out of the tank.

Maybe get a 3/8" ball valve and reducers and make your own? It would be a bit bulky though.

 

[Eisenhower]

If you go to some of the tool websites (Snap-On is where I checked), they list it as "recommended maximum air pressure". I don't think many air tools will "blow up" at 120.

 

[pipsters]

Maybe get a 3/8" ball valve and reducers and make your own? It would be a bit bulky though.

Good idea, I could use the ball valve and put a gauge on it upstream. I like it. Yes bulky but better than what I have now I think. Hmm, something to think about, thank you.

 

[johnsdeere850j]

Well that is some good reading there, guess ill see what I can get done running on a lower psi monday. Some of them track bolts and undercarriage bolts take some umph might just need to step up to a 1" drive if the 3/4 wont get it done at a lower pressure. But i guess I shouldn't worry about it if nobody else's tools are getting annihilated by 150 psi.

 

[pipsters]

Running at a lower pressure, if it takes you longer to get the fastener off, probably won't save you any wear and tear. EX you can hit the nut @ 150 PSI for 1.5 sec or 90 PSI for 5 secs...

I would think the only thing that would happen is excessively quick wear if anything. Just do a refresh, including the seals, vanes, and hammers, should cost a fraction of what the gun cost new and should be as good as new, if you notice a loss of power.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Our regulator is set at 120psi, not sure what we get at the coupling. Maybe i should plug my compression tester in and find out.

 

[MattT]

Our regulator is set at 120psi, not sure what we get at the coupling. Maybe i should plug my compression tester in and find out.

You'll get 120 static. Put a Tee piece at the tool and measure the pressure with the tool running.

 

[shampoop]

Hmm. This got me to thinking, are there any popular models of home size air compressors (20-60 gallon) that run pressures near 200psi? I would love to find one on craigslist someday. I just like the idea and peace of mind that if i'm working on something that's really big and/or stuck, if i need to i could crank it up to 200psi and break that bish loose!

I see this craftsman pro says 175psi max. http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/2166001343.html But does that necessarily mean it can actually reach 175psi assuming it's in good working condition?

 

[MattT]

I see this craftsman pro says 175psi max. http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/2166001343.html But does that necessarily mean it can actually reach 175psi assuming it's in good working condition?

That looks like the POS Dewalt oil free Hobo Depot sells. Yeah it'll hit 175 eventually and you'll be deaf by the time it does if you're near it. Then after a few months the pump will explode. Fortunately the plastic cover is designed to contain the shrapnel

 

[shampoop]

That looks like the POS Dewalt oil free Hobo Depot sells. Yeah it'll hit 175 eventually and you'll be deaf by the time it does if you're near it. Then after a few months the pump will explode. Fortunately the plastic cover is designed to contain the shrapnel

Most of the craftsman pro one's i've seen are oil bath type. I definitely don't want an oil free one. There are zero advantages to having one in an automotive setting. I definitely will be getting one eventually, but it's not going to be in the immediate future.

 

[Vinko]

Anything past that is going to blow out the "O" rings/seals, higher rpms for more power will wreak havoic on the vanes and end plates with fastr wear and gradual loss of power. The dogs or impact mechanisms will start to pit and spall and will break down or the anvil will prematuraly break.

This has been my experience with IR impacts (the older 231c's made in the USA). They're relatively easy to rebuild but 1/2" impact at 80 or 90 does the job for me. When we weren't regulating the air lines, we were blowing impacts every other month or so.

 

[Vinko]

My IR-TI 1" D handle runs ~175, if the compressor could run 200, I would.

MattT hit the nail on the head. Those are not static line pressures, but rather pressures at the gun while running.

Between line losses, fitting losses, and losses at the trigger, pressure could be significantly less at the motor.

That gun has ran daily for 3 years. The high moisture content certainly doesn't help matters any, nor does having the air fittings packed full of dirt, but it's just the way it goes..

+1

I'd like to know how much torque guys are needing where they're jacking up a good 1/2" impact gun with 175 PSI+

 

[Vinko]

The 90 psi rating is the pressure at the inlet of the tool while it is running at free speed. While most shops have a high static pressure, the pressure at the tool while it is running drops significantly due to the length and size of piping and hose and number of quick disconnects.

In a lot of the trade mags I've read like Plant Engineering, etc. and some trade associations for air compressor industry, they say that the average shop loses a lot of air pressure from origin to destination, what with not only piping, hose, and couplers as you point out, but with leaks. Can't vouch for the studies but they say that it's one reason for huge energy bills: inefficient compressed air systems.

I know since I sorted mine out, fixed leaks, redid parts of the system, that everything seems more efficient. Maybe that's why I'm having good luck running at 90-100. I usually don't have a need for more than 150-200 ft pounds, and maybe this is on the low end, I don't know

 

[Vinko]

Hmm. This got me to thinking, are there any popular models of home size air compressors (20-60 gallon) that run pressures near 200psi? I would love to find one on craigslist someday. I just like the idea and peace of mind that if i'm working on something that's really big and/or stuck, if i need to i could crank it up to 200psi and break that bish loose!

Not a home model but my Saylor Beall does over 200 PSI and when unregulated, that was about the pressure that was causing eventual failure on my IR impacts.

 

[moparmuscle88]

my matco1769a (IR 2135timax) has been run full time work week for 3 years with no problems, just grease it about once a month, put some oil in it now and then and its good, its will break alot of things at 175psi if im not careful, and my other snap on guns have been holding up longer than that, the im6500 i had to rebuild about a year ago, but nothing you wouldnt expect for a gun thats been around for about 10 years now

ive always run mine as high as the compressor can go, at the house its 200 (bought a square d pressure switch that'll let it got that high) shop its 175

also, based on the efficiency of your plumbing, regulator pressure isnt always the presure at the tool, squeeze the trigger and see what the pressure drops to whie holding it, then crank it up to adjust

With what i do, working on 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, with plows etc., you need the most power you can get to take of rusted on bolts, and alot of the time, i stll find myself breaking out the torch

 

[Chris Adams]

I don't think most the guys running their air tools at '150-175-and up' are actually doing that.

Last year I did some experimenting with air pressure volume, impact power vs. input air and air at the unit.
Sadly, since it was mostly for my own use, I didn't document everything.

Suffice to say, in the shops with air compressor running at 175, ten outlets, five or six rubber hoses, and a bunch of stinger hoses with various air tools laying around waiting, you probably aren't getting 90 at the job.

Just had some tires put on my Class A this week and the guy was whining that the duals were down too hard as his gun wasn't pulling them.

They were down to 118 lbs, exactly.
I torqued them down the day before.

They had been down to 150, and my IR gun popped them off instantly, with 80 lbs at the gun.

I looked at the shop compressor with the guy, the air was set at 170 at the time he was taking off the duals. The air was non-regulated.
There was over three hundred feet of air line attached at a dozen terminals, five or six guns laying around bleeding air.
I doubt he had 65 lbs at the gun.

Air line 'kills' power. Any couplers in the line kill power. Any air tool MURDERS power for any other air tool on the line.

In most shops I have worked in, or even visited, A/C current and compressed air are less understood than voodoo.

 

[oldjacks]

I don't think most the guys running their air tools at '150-175-and up' are actually doing that.

In most shops I have worked in, or even visited, A/C current and compressed air are less understood than voodoo.

Amen to that brother!