Existing Sub Panel questions...

[brent5631]

Can anyone look at my panel and tell me if it is installed correctly?

Apparently it is a three phase panel as every third lug has no voltage. I'm concerned about the grounding as the way it appears now the ground wire is handling all of the loaf for the neutral. I need to do some more checking tonight but let me know what you think.

 

[PaulyC]

You are correct that it is a three phase panel, however from what i can see in the picture you have an ungrounded conductor landed on each terminal so you should have voltage if its a three phase feed.

As far as the ground on the neutral is concerned you should not have a ground on that lug. The only place where the ground and neutral should be bonded together is at the main panel.

 

[brent5631]

So, it is a single phase 240 feed. The top left wire attached to the breaker should be the neutral. I realize that the ground should be separate and currently it appears that it is acting as the neutral.

So I'm debating now whether I use this panel and fix it or put in a new one.

 

[Movover]

It looks like the neutral on the left and right are tied together with a bar that runs under the 3 phase wires right before they connect to the buss bars..

The black with yellow stripe is your neutral and yes it handles all 3 phases. I dont see where that would be a problem.. is there a separate ground that attaches to the ground buss that goes back to a main panel ?

 

[BigNuge]

So, it is a single phase 240 feed. The top left wire attached to the breaker should be the neutral. I realize that the ground should be separate and currently it appears that it is acting as the neutral.

So I'm debating now whether I use this panel and fix it or put in a new one.

You neutral should NEVER go through a breaker. Looks like someone used this because they had it on hand and didn't want to spend any money.

Given this situation you'd be better served by just going out and buying a brand new panel. I bought a brand new 125AMP panel w/20 slots (and it came with 5-Single pole 20 amp breakers and 1-Double Pole 30 Amp breaker (and the main) for $60. Done and done right.

 

[markbinwi]

This is a three phase panel that some one brought home for work or some three phase application, and cobbled in as a sub. If it were my project, I would replace it with a good single phase sub panel of the same manufacture, and reuse the breakers if they are ok. Hard to tell from the picture, but they look like square D QO series, and sub panels are very reasonable in this product line. If you have a menards near you, they have a very good selection and great pricing on the square d stuff.

PaulyC is spot on that regrounding the sub is prohibited by code, here is a little part of an explanation I found on Mike Holts site:

The National Electrical Code (NEC) has prohibited re-grounding the neutral after the service since the 1923 edition. Exceptions have been made for dryers and ranges that use the neutral as a grounding means, and for separate buildings. However, those loopholes have been effectively closed in the 1996 and 1999 editions of the NEC. The references in the 1999 edition of the NEC are found in 250-24(a)(5), 250-142(b), and 384-20.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Can anyone look at my panel and tell me if it is installed correctly?

Apparently it is a three phase panel as every third lug has no voltage. I'm concerned about the grounding as the way it appears now the ground wire is handling all of the loaf for the neutral. I need to do some more checking tonight but let me know what you think.

What a cluster f*ck...So u have the neutral feeding through the breaker? The only way i can see reusing this would be to move the neutral to the appropriate lug on the neutral bar IF this is indeed a single phase service.

How does not having voltage on every third lug have anything to do with it being a 3 phase panel? Its a 3-phase panel because it has a 3-phase breake and 3 bus barsr. It has no voltage between it and what, ground? What is the voltage between the third lug and the other 2 phases?

 

[brent5631]

So after Investigating the black with yellow stripe is the neutral and feeds through a fuse box back to the main panel.
The top left black wire is actually not connected to anything. So in actuality I only have a three wire service and I have no ground rod installed at the shop. And just an FYI all the service wires are 4 gauge aluminum.

So seems like I need to redo both the shop panel and the house panel to bond the ground together.

Uggggh thus is retarded.

 

[brent5631]

Voltages are both 120v for the middle and right wires. Same for ground and neutral.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Black with yellow stripe is typically URD, which is not allowed inside, UNLESS dual rated. Looks like someone used quadraplex which is what PoCos use for service distribution.

Also, what size is the breaker in your main panel that feeds this? #4 AL is good for 65a...

U should have TWO ground rods, and the neutral bar needs to be isolated from the enclosure and the ground bars...

I would pull new wire and get a new breaker panel....u could get another sq D so u could reuse the breakers...

 

[brent5631]

60 amp breaker feeds this.