Expansion Joints - Fill or leave?

[ToddnMiss]

Team,

This is my first post so please be gentle . . . I did some searching and the 2nd article I read seemed to have a bit of banter going back-n-forth (30182).

I am excited to find a forum dedicated what I want to be one of my four man-rooms (the other three are the home theater, the den and of course the throne).

Background to question:
I am going to start with the floor of the garage and after doing some reading I think I have settled on Epoxy-Coat though I'll have quite a bit of waste as my garage is just 580sf and they sell in 250/500sf increments (ugh).

My garage has two crossing expansion joints that run the length of the floor (a big + ). It's a relatively new home, about 4 years old, the floor is very smooth, no cracks and I've had no fluid spills so I'm estimating a relatively easy prep -- only concern is that it may be too smooth for this stuff to stick nicely.

My question:
Should I fill the expansion joints or leave them alone?

If I fill them, with what and would that change the prep process?

If I don't fill them, will I have an issue with this stuff trying to "bridge the gap" and breaking later - if so, I guess I should have something to ensure I break that elastic connection before hardening.


Thanks for your help!
Todd, Missy & the boys

 

[Chuckw]

Hi,

I would not fill the expansion joints as they do serve a function if the floor needs to shift.
When the put epoxy on the shop floors at work they just worked it to the joint and painted the joint, but it did not cover or fill the joint.

I myself do not like coated shop floors as a shop is a shop to me IMHO.

Chuck

 

[AlphaGarage]

Should I fill the expansion joints or leave them alone?

The question is very similar to another question we get a lot...

What color should paint my floor?

The answer for both is the same... "Depends on what you like."

To fill or not to fill, for most projects, is primarily an aesthetic choice. There are some practical considerations; filled joints are easier to roll carts, hoists, creepers etc over; small items can get lost in an open crack; etc., but those factors generally take a back seat to whether or not one likes the looks of seams, or a vast, smooth, uninterrupted surface.

If I fill them, with what and would that change the prep process?

There are numerous fillers out there, be sure to use on compatible with your coating, and one that will adhere and not pop out later. Also, if there's any chance that there may be movement along the joints use a filler that retains some flexibility for expansion and/or contraction even after its cured (we offer IntegraFlex 1921 for that purpose).

Application steps depend on the particular product used.

If the cracks or joints are particularly deep you should consider using backer rod material first. That's a flexible rope that you shove down into the void first. It save you time and money because you don't need to apply as much filler; plus it also helps prevent the filler from popping out later.

Another consideration is "V grooving" the cracks first, that will also help prevent cracks appearing in the epoxy coat due to expansion or contraction along the joints.

 

[ToddnMiss]

The question is very similar to another question we get a lot...

Thank you very much for the reply & info, I can see where the question "seemed" similar, but I assure you it was more of a should/can it be done before treated my floor with 'Epoxy-Coat' than a question of aesthetics.

I know I prefer the cracks filled for utility purposes and thus was going to fill them; but if I could do it before it would look better than some unfinished, mis-matched lines afterwards. Especially since I'm planning to use flakes and figured it would look silly.

Is IntegraFlex 1921 compatible with an Epoxy floor, specifically 'Epoxy-Coat'? (I realize you sell your own flooring product as well - but appreciate if you know the answer).

And, since the expansion joints do permit me the option of doing part of the floor at a time - then doing the joints with the filler and its less about aesthetics than utility . . . what color would the IntegraFlex 1921 dry to if done after?

Thanks again for your help, it is appreciated.
ToddnMiss

 

[54FordPanel]

I used EpoxyCoat, and I am very happy with it. After reading the webs, I saw that there were some people that recommended expensive epoxy mixes just for the joints. I called Epoxy Coat, and they recommended using cheap latex painters caulk to fill the expansion joints, so that's what I used.

The only thing I would do differently, is that I way over estimated the "flow out and fill" qualities of the epoxy. On my floor, I filled the joint with painters latex caulk, but I left a little gap (indention) figuring that the epoxy would flow into the joints a fill to a level even with the floor.

It doesn't.

So, if I could do it over again, I would take the time and fill the joints to dead even with the floor, using a putty knife, because the level you see before you pour is the level you get after you pour.

So definitely fill the joints, because when you sweep, that's where the dirt stops. And the latex painters caulk still allows the joints to do what they are designed to do.

 

[Wingnut65]

Welcome to GJ, Todd and company. Good points have been made for you so far. I would fill the joints to keep moisture out of the slab. Left unsealed and painted as best that can be done, moisture will get under your new finish and make bubbles in the finish and eventual separation. Sealing first will provide a continuous finish coat over your whole floor as AlphaGarage mentioned and graphically demonstrated above. Whatever you do seal it with, you may want to test the finish on a small area to assure compatability.

BTW, If you have a 580 sf concrete slab, you most likely have Control Joints that were saw cut across the floor. These are designed to contol the cracks of the concrete as all concrete has a tendancy to do. If the walls were built first, an Expansion Joint will be around the edge of the slab at the walls. If the slab was poured first, there will be no EJ's. The CJ's in my garage actually stop 4-5" from the wall which is as close as their saw could go.

Good Luck with your project.

jeff

 

[Ruddy]

I think you need to fill, but optional about filling all the way to the top. reasoning for me was things getting trapped in there all the time and the epoxy being too thin on the edge of the joint when it is in its self leveling mode.
You can go to my photos to look at the joint ones.
http://pics.ww.com/v/ruddy/MyCars/garage

Oh, and I used Sikaflex 1csl

 

[rugerlady]

Hi Todd,
Welcome to the GJ. There are arguments on both sides on this one. We recommend not filling the expansion joints, just painting them to get the color continuity.
That being said, we do get alot of requests for people that want a seamless look. We will recommend an acrylic painters caulk (do not use DAP). The epoxy is self leveling, but be careful when rolling, when the epoxy is wet you can pick up the wet material out of any voids.
If you want to go into more details, give me a call for our specific recomendations on this.

 

[AlphaGarage]

I know I prefer the cracks filled for utility purposes and thus was going to fill them; but if I could do it before it would look better than some unfinished, mis-matched lines afterwards. Especially since I'm planning to use flakes and figured it would look silly.

Is IntegraFlex 1921 compatible with an Epoxy floor, specifically 'Epoxy-Coat'? (I realize you sell your own flooring product as well - but appreciate if you know the answer).

And, since the expansion joints do permit me the option of doing part of the floor at a time - then doing the joints with the filler and its less about aesthetics than utility . . . what color would the IntegraFlex 1921 dry to if done after?

Thanks again for your help, it is appreciated.
ToddnMiss

You're correct - it's best to fill the joint before coating the floor.

IntegraFlex is a 100% solids epoxy product, so it should be compatible with other epoxy products.

It's also self priming, and can be applied on a typically prepped concrete surface, that is no major oil spots, profiled etc.

It's extremely durable - some of its main industrial uses are highway and runway expansion joints etc. When fully cured it has a elongation factor of about 50%.

Uncoated it cures to a light shade of gray. Here are a few shots of it in use before being over coated...

 

[Ch3No2]

Since your concrete is 4 years old and has cured somewhat I would fill the cracks in like I have done on my last 3 garages. I just did my 3rd one and it too was about 4 years old. Most concrete will crack in the first few years if its going to as it continues to gain strength for many years but the first few are the crack prone years. Chances are the cracks are already in your expansion joints or sofcutt joints in the first year. Here are some pics of my latest floor I did 2 years ago and still has no surface cracking above the joints. I used a product called "Ardex" Feather Finish and have had excellent luck with it. Masking helps and sanding the next day will help hide the filler.
just my opinion!

 

[ToddnMiss]

Awesome pictures and great info Ch3No2!

My expansion joints look identical to yours and I have zero cracking outside of the joints.

If you did a floor epoxy afterwards and have pictures I would like to see those (especially where the joints were).

Thanks again!
ToddnMiss

 

[Ch3No2]

I could take some but you wouldn't see where they were...the consistency of epoxy floor paint really hides small flaws...almost like self leveling paint.

 

[ToddnMiss]

Perfect, that's pretty much what I wondered.

Thank you for the feedback on your experience.

 

[ToddnMiss]

Actually, I have one more question since your garage picture looks near identical to mine (I'm also in Cali) . . .

In the 2nd picture (2.JPG (2 of 4)), the cement edges that stand up about 8" . . . . did you try to smooth those out / paint them too?

One of my walls these are not even close to flush, like a row of bricks on the floor, and they are not very smooth at all I am debating about trying to finish them some how . . . but, I tend to be overly **** so maybe I'm just better off living with them and trying to paint them the best I can.

 

[Ch3No2]

The "curbs" were epoxied and rubber cove base was installed at the flooring level to try and hide the imperfections of tract house concrete work...after all it is just a garage...lol!!!!!!!!

 

[ToddnMiss]

...after all it is just a garage...lol!!!!!!!!

Yeah, but it's one of only 4 spaces that are mine (the other three are the den, the theater and of course the man-throne (upstairs water-closet)). I don't even get the game room as mine!

You're right of course, its just that one wall of "curb" (I like that definition) ***** pretty bad. And, I guess I have this neat dream of having everything behind doors/in drawers so that I could put out tables for poker and have it be the man's game room (since the one above it is the kids' game room). Heck, just to show you how out of whack my thought process is, I've already bought the HD LCD TV for the garage and I'm just starting (laughter).

Speaking of which, how well does epoxy flooring hold up to metal chairs/tables if I have a poker game with some 250#'s ish guys?

 

[griffinzx10]

hello all, brand new here, found this thread and forum from a google search about this topic.
I was searching whether or not to fill the expansion cuts in my garage. But i also had another question, due to i am purchasing a new home, this will be a brand new garage also, new cement etc. The foundation was pours in the beginning of march, so i was wondering if i should seal the floor now, or wait a year or two to do it? I'd prefer to do it now so i wont have any stains over a year or 2 of use. But i know i run the risk of the home settling and possible cracks in the floor.

If the floor does crack after it had been sealed, is that an easy fix?

 

[Shea]

You can seal your floor now if it was poured in March. Since you are looking into filling your contraction joints I will assume that you want an epoxy floor. If you develop a crack later in the years, how hard it is to repair the floor depends on the flake coverage. If you do flakes to full refusal then it makes it much easier to repair any damage to the floor such as a crack. If the flake coverage is light, then it makes it more difficult. Over the years the epoxy color can fade some and a new patch is much more apparent.

 

[pauls_workshop]

On the filling of the expansion joints, I would not epoxy over them. I just did my floor and epoxied first, then filled expansion joints after with Sikaflex SL. The gray Sikaflex SL is a very close match to the medium gray Epoxy-Coat color (not the light or the dark gray Epoxy-Coat). You could also paint over just the Sikaflex with another color to match an epoxy color if you wanted. I'm happy with this approach and don't need to worry about epoxy cracking over the top of the joints. The Sika levels out nice so the floor is pretty flat over the joints. You can also trim the top to be perfectly flush, but I did not need to do that. - Paul

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Everyone has a preference.
Pauls gave a good recommendation.

However, if you want the seamless look, you need to use an epoxy gel filler, cure grind flush and coat over. If you have a temp. stable garage it works really well.

 

[Dave Maxwell]

Went to buy sikaflex and found out it needed 3 days to cure. Guess will be after I paint

 

[rquackenbush]

Thanks Ch3No2 - I've just ordered the supplies to do the same thing in my garage. I'm sick of cleaning out those damn cracks and trying to roll over them in my rolling stool.

 

[Dneel81]

I used the legacy extreme 100 filler. hardest part was filling the cracks with super fine sand. Squirted the mixed compound on the floor and waited. it cured in less than 1 hour and I ground it flush when I ground the rest of the floor. It was mildly annoying to have the "overspray" (the extra stuff next to the crack) there and it was somewhat tricky to grind away. But the cracks are filled and I repaired some defects in the floor that grinding brought out (think of Tommy Lee Jones's face). Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful. My floor is less than 8m old and the expansion joints had already cracked.

 

[PhantomEB]

I would not fill them in, actually I had them cut my 24x24 into quarters. Best thing I did. Contains the water and has minimized the cracks. I know my brother wishes he did the same to his. Another buddy did the cuts as well put drains in the Center of his two ‘halves’.

And I am in the no to epoxy period in my garage. I do too much welding and grinding out there.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Thanks Ch3No2 - I've just ordered the supplies to do the same thing in my garage. I'm sick of cleaning out those damn cracks and trying to roll over them in my rolling stool.