expensive hydraulic cylinders

[whateg01]

What is it that makes a hydraulic cylinder so expensive? Looking at Enerpac and others, 4-10 ton isn't too bad. 20 ton gets a little more expensive. But go above that and the price goes up exponentially, it seems. I know there's more material, but the pressure is typically the same, up to 10 kpsi. Is it just the sales volume? Application?

Dave

 

[bsaint]

Enerpac are 10k psi cylinders and operate at that pressure with special check valve quick couplings. To operate and take the abuse of enerpac systems, they are built like a tank. A "normal" hydro system is usually 1/5 of that pressure and maxes out at 3000 psi.

 

[tdkkart]

Enerpac is stupid expensive, even in the low pressure stuff. Depending on your application, there's definitely cheaper alternatives.

 

[1930]

Its all about volume, the more they typically can sell the cheaper they can offer them

 

[whateg01]

Enerpac are 10k psi cylinders and operate at that pressure with special check valve quick couplings. To operate and take the abuse of enerpac systems, they are built like a tank. A "normal" hydro system is usually 1/5 of that pressure and maxes out at 3000 psi.

Most of the portopower style systems are made for 10 kpsi. The pump and 10T cylinder I bought from Northern Tool was only about $85 with a hose, IIRC. Enerpac is way more expensive than most other stuff on the market. I know it's built like a tank, but a cylinder is still just a cylinder. Maybe better seals, but a $5 seal vs a $15 seal doesn't on its own make a cylinder $500 more.

 

[bigredmf]

There are a number of USA manufacturers who are currently offshoring their 10k production but they forgot to pass any savings on to their customers.

There are some reputable overseas manufacturers that include Eagle Pro and BVA.

Take a look at Eagle Pro, they recognize they don't have the name recognition and pass the savings on to you.

Lifetime warranties for manufacturing defects.

Feel free to pm me with any part numbers for interchange purposes!

There are manufacturers selling the same exact products with different stickers on them for different prices based on the warranty.

Thank you!

Red


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hiball]

Most of the portopower style systems are made for 10 kpsi. The pump and 10T cylinder I bought from Northern Tool was only about $85 with a hose, IIRC. Enerpac is way more expensive than most other stuff on the market. I know it's built like a tank, but a cylinder is still just a cylinder. Maybe better seals, but a $5 seal vs a $15 seal doesn't on its own make a cylinder $500 more.

Enerpac off the shelf is more expensive because it's hands down better than your China units sold under every brand they can stick a sticker on. I don't care if your talking about the pumps or cylinders, I've rebuilt Both. Secondly the people who are buying the brand aren't necessarily worried about initial cost, they don't want to be lifting a 50 ton load and have there equipment fail randomly with no dealer support , so they open ther pocketbook. I've bought a lot of Enerpac/simplex off eBay, sometimes New at less than 30% of retail. If your wanting to fill a need, I would reccomend EBay. I believe I can cover up to 100 tons if the need ever arises.

I do concur though... They are stupid expensive.

 

[bigredmf]

Enerpac off the shelf is more expensive because it's hands down better than your China units sold under every brand they can stick a sticker on. I don't care if your talking about the pumps or cylinders, I've rebuilt Both. Secondly the people who are buying the brand aren't necessarily worried about initial cost, they don't want to be lifting a 50 ton load and have there equipment fail randomly with no dealer support , so they open ther pocketbook. I've bought a lot of Enerpac/simplex off eBay, sometimes New at less than 30% of retail. If your wanting to fill a need, I would reccomend EBay. I believe I can cover up to 100 tons if the need ever arises.

I do concur though... They are stupid expensive.

This true assuming the product is domestically produced.

Check the COO then you decide

Red

 

[Hiball]

This true assuming the product is domestically produced.

Check the COO then you decide

Red

Eh... I wouldn't use such a broad brush, I don't judge products by COO tags alone, nor does you average Enerpac customer. The truth of the matter is that they have a very strong reputation for manufacturing quality products and support network to back it up, that's why they can charge insane prices to there target market. Which subsequently isn't Found in your average homeowners garage.

And No, before someone accuses me of it, Enerpac isn't the only manufacturer who produces quality products, but there is a good chance they are the most recognized.

 

[bigredmf]

My frustration is when manufacturers change COO and pricing remains the same.

I have multiple (4) 30-60 ton Rams with different COO.

Red


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fcvapor05]

My frustration is when manufacturers change COO and pricing remains the same.

I have multiple (4) 30-60 ton Rams with different COO.

Quite a few companies produce product all over the world, and ship it from one place to another to cover unexpected demand. In other words, whatever company you bought your rams from might be producing them in 4 places at once.

 

[Nuccio]

There are a number of USA manufacturers who are currently offshoring their 10k production but they forgot to pass any savings on to their customers.

There are some reputable overseas manufacturers that include Eagle Pro and BVA.

Take a look at Eagle Pro, they recognize they don't have the name recognition and pass the savings on to you.

Lifetime warranties for manufacturing defects.

Feel free to pm me with any part numbers for interchange purposes!

There are manufacturers selling the same exact products with different stickers on them for different prices based on the warranty.

Thank you!

Red


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am looking for 30 ton double acting hollow cylinder with 7" of stoke like the EDH-307

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

 

[SeisMec]

FWIW and just a guess. Better chrome plating of the ram rod/shaft?

Basing my guess of the hyd. lift cylinders on the trucks pictured in my avatar. Constant exposure to insane amounts of dust and sand would chew up the chrome - which then tore up seals. Rechromed rods held up longer than on than the rods in in the cylinders in newly purchased trucks.

 

[AA/FC]

What is it that makes a hydraulic cylinder so expensive? Looking at Enerpac and others, 4-10 ton isn't too bad. 20 ton gets a little more expensive. But go above that and the price goes up exponentially, it seems. I know there's more material, but the pressure is typically the same, up to 10 kpsi. Is it just the sales volume? Application?

Dave

Even if pressure stays the same, when cylinder diameter increases, so should the wall thickness/strength. Just like a larger piston will increase cylinder force, (even when pressure stays the same) the cylinder walls experience that same force increase. If the cylinder increases in diameter, then there is more cylinder wall surface to push against, and therefore needs to be stronger in order to contain that pressure. So with that said, I'm sure as cylinder force goes up, so does liability..... which certainly doesn't help keep the price down.

.

 

[whateg01]

Even if pressure stays the same, when cylinder diameter increases, so should the wall thickness/strength. Just like a larger piston will increase cylinder force, (even when pressure stays the same) the cylinder walls experience that same force increase. If the cylinder increases in diameter, then there is more cylinder wall surface to push against, and therefore needs to be stronger in order to contain that pressure. So with that said, I'm sure as cylinder force goes up, so does liability..... which certainly doesn't help keep the price down.

.

I am not sure I agree with that statement. The total force may increase, but for a given pressure, the force per unit area stays the same since that's the definition of pressure. So, that 1 square inch of wall feels the same 3500 lbf if it's a 10 T cylinder as it would if it was rated at 50 T. I can certainly see where, for structural purposes, it might be necessary to increase the wall thickness to improve the rigidity of the cylinder or other such things, but from an increased rated force, there is no additional stress on the area of a cylinder wall.

Dave

 

[American Locomotive]

The wall pressure remains the same, but the tensile forces do not. Take a cylinder and make a cross section cut so you have two "hemis-cylinders". Imagine that you taped the two cylinder halves together and started filling it with fluid. You're going to get a force trying to tear the cylinder halves apart equal to the cross-sectional area of each entire half multiplied by the fluid pressure.

The cross sectional area of the metal where the two "hemi-cylidners" join together will remain the same regardless of the cylinder diameter. However the total cross sectional surface area on each hemisphere will increase dramatically as diameter increases. Because of that, the cross section of steel holding the cylinder together will experience a huge increase in force as diameter increases.

This is why a steel brake line that needs to deal with 5,000 PSI is 0.028" thick, while a steel oxygen bottle needing to deal with 5,000 PSI is nearly 0.250" thick.

 

[whateg01]

Ok, that makes some sense to me now. Thanks for breaking it down that way.

 

[speed bump]

This true assuming the product is domestically produced.

Check the COO then you decide

Red

At work I just purchased an enerpac 10t ram and whatever the cheap brand that MSC sells equivalent because it was slightly shorter and I needed the shortest ram with that stroke I could get. Enerpac was made in US and the green one was Chinese. Enerpac is nice because even when you do blow them up it seems like there are shops everywhere that will rebuild them pretty cheaply. Show up with something generic and they may or may not be willing to take a stab at it.

All that being said for a home gamer I'm not sure how much it matters, at work where someone uses them almost daily cost is less important than reliability.

 

[AA/FC]

I am not sure I agree with that statement. The total force may increase, but for a given pressure, the force per unit area stays the same since that's the definition of pressure. So, that 1 square inch of wall feels the same 3500 lbf if it's a 10 T cylinder as it would if it was rated at 50 T. I can certainly see where, for structural purposes, it might be necessary to increase the wall thickness to improve the rigidity of the cylinder or other such things, but from an increased rated force, there is no additional stress on the area of a cylinder wall.

Dave

Okay, lets use a simple example.....

Lets say you have a hydraulic circuit that uses some hose and some steel tubing..... lets say that steel tubing was 1/4 diameter with a wall thickness of 0.035. Now, lets say we build that same hydraulic circuit but with 2 inch diameter steel hydraulic tubing. Are you saying wall thickness does not also need to increase to safely hold the given pressure without bursting? So 2" steel hydraulic tubing with 0.035 wall is thick enough?

Edit: Disregard, I read the follow-up replies to your post AFTER I typed my reply to you.

.