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Experience with el-cheapo voltage transformers?

anythingyoucanimagine

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Trying to run a 12vdc CPU fan on 208-220vac. Alibaba, eBay, Amazon, etc. have $10 contraptions like this:

https://www.ebay.com/p/AC-110-220v-...ply-Converter-US/22025389281?iid=123463129187

I want to put it on an air compressor. It's a 2-cyl oiled compressor that I'm building a small aftercooler and shrouds/air baffles for. I really don't want to make the electronics too complicated. I'm fine adding a master on/off but want to keep the factory pressure switch on/off too. I don't want to over-complicate it anymore than I already have.

Thanks.
 
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htmdude57

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What? A CPU fan? Are you talking about putting a fan the size of a postage stamp onto a 5 hp motor driven compressor?

As far as the power supply, yes, I think that would work for what you want to do. But I would imagine using of 4-6 muffin fans. Which you might be able to purchase as 220VAC.

Or, I would rig up a $20 Walmart dual window fan or a 20" box fan, running on 120VAC.
 

SGKent

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I set up floor fans and aim them at the compressors when running for any extended periods. Then use the fans somewhere else when I need them.

Also if you add a neutral wire you could probably run a 120V fan.
 
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anythingyoucanimagine

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Why make it complicated at all? Get a 240v fan and forgo the electronics all together.

Thanks. I wasn't Googling it properly. I changed the text I was putting into search and have found a bunch of cheap $10-$20 fans on fleabay/Prime.

Next question:
How do I do this properly? The 150mm 12V fan I'm looking at says 1.2A @ 12V. I assume a similar 230/240V fan will pull... ~0.06 amps. I'm thinking I probably shouldn't just use 16ga speaker wire and hook that into a 20A 208/240V circuit.

I have a bunch of breadboard stock. I'm not opposed to soldering in a small in-line fuse... (I am capable of Google but do they make 0.1A 240V fuses?) This will be on a 2-pole hot-hot-ground residential 120/240V split phase system. (I've posted before that I have 208Y residential, this compressor is going to be a gift and he's got split phase)

Do I want inline fuses coming off both legs? I'm not looking to send my contraption to UL, do I have to worry about insulation/protection coming off the 20A line leads or can I just run something like solid 14ga copper from 20A 240V hot to fusable links, then solder on whatever gauge the fan has from factory??

Thanks.

What? A CPU fan? Are you talking about putting a fan the size of a postage stamp onto a 5 hp motor driven compressor?

As far as the power supply, yes, I think that would work for what you want to do. But I would imagine using of 4-6 muffin fans. Which you might be able to purchase as 220VAC.

Or, I would rig up a $20 Walmart dual window fan or a 20" box fan, running on 120VAC.


Yes like a 150mm x 150mm el-cheap-o computer CPU fan. Compressor is belt driven. The compressor flywheel generates (very little) air flow as designed from factory and I want something extra for an aftercooler to remove water. I'm cutting cardboard baffle templates to wrap the compressor motor and aftercooler then will bend/cut something from sheet metal.

I want the CPU fan to interface independently off a thermocouple (probably tapped into oil pan) so when the compressor stops, the fan keeps (quietly but efficiently) cooling the compressor motor and copper coils even if comp isn't running. But yes, a 150-ish mm computer CPU cooling fan.

Any tips on integrating a <1A fan into a 20A circuit? Fuse both leads? Thanks!
 

sberry

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Find a real fan , how much cooling you think an amp of 12v is going to do? This is already way complicated. All a substitute for a decent comp in the first place.
 

manwithtools

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Find a real fan , how much cooling you think an amp of 12v is going to do? This is already way complicated. All a substitute for a decent comp in the first place.

Enough air to keep a car engine cool via it's radiator - millions (probably tens of millions) of them in use for that purpose......

Don't short sell a 12V fan.
 

Norcal

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240V muffin fans are available, cut out all unnecessary **** & run them on line voltage, remember KISS.

Keep
It
Simple
Sir

Yeah, I know there is another version but no need to toss insults.
 

sberry

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A car fan is pretty substantial. I been at this a while. I have been around general shops for 40 yrs, a lot of them. I have never seen some of the schemes I see here. I got my own, do not have something lime this. I might have thought of some of these brainstorms when I was 20 or under the influence of hard liquor.
What amazes me even more is the quality endorsement for some of these ideas. Most of them are not dangerous but lots of them don't have much value or they have a chain reaction that new guys to this type of thing read of them, think they got to have em not realizing they are a waste of time if it's not a total hobby which is a different issue.
Similar to the hose barb and air coupler worry for the high demand apps involving the jeep project.
 

strutaeng

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Yeah, I SBC fan would be a better idea! Slap a "350" emblem on the side, LOL.

Kidding aside, the fan is usually part the pump flywheel. A cheap box fan rigged up is going to be a better idea than what you are proposing.
 

GRB

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The fan that moves air over the cooling fins is usually part of the pump pulley. I think he is talking about a fan to move air over an air cooler.

I generally use 1/10hp 120/240v fan with shroud to pull outside air thru the cooler and use that airflow to exhaust the hot air out of the compressor enclosure. Works fine for 10HP compressor in a 4'x8' compressor outbuilding that is 8' tall.

A CPU fan won't do squat.
 
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anythingyoucanimagine

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Also if you add a neutral wire you could probably run a 120V fan.

I'm giving this compressor to someone. I realize people are saying that I'm over-complicating it with a fan. The part I'd like to keep simple is not having to change out the factory plug and cord. It came with a 6-20P and I know he's got two 6-20 receptacles in his garage.

While in some respects adding a neutral wire makes a lot of things more logical and straightforward, it would also require him to put in a 125/250V receptacle/circuit. (which I know he probably won't want to do)

Find a real fan , how much cooling you think an amp of 12v is going to do? This is already way complicated. All a substitute for a decent comp in the first place.

This isn't directed at you sberry, regarding the 12v fan comments, this is the fan I'm referring to:

https://www.sanyodenki.com/archive/document/corporatedata/technicalreport/2006/TR22e_f_en.pdf

A 12v 150mm 300cfm fan is very different than a 12v 30a 2500cfm fan. I have a pile of those computer CPU fans so was thinking of something small and quiet out of the pile I already have.

I've got welding wire, paint and copper I had on hand into this so it's still basically free.

sberry, yes I know it's a substitute for something decent. It'll be his first compressor and it'll be a LOT better than the craftsman oil-less I had as my first.

240V muffin fans are available, cut out all unnecessary **** & run them on line voltage, remember KISS.

It'll be fine to tap it into a 20A 240V circuit? If yes that'll be very simple/quick/easy.

What amazes me even more is the quality endorsement for some of these ideas. Most of them are not dangerous but lots of them don't have much value or they have a chain reaction that new guys to this type of thing read of them, think they got to have em not realizing they are a waste of time if it's not a total hobby which is a different issue.

I get it. This is a hobby for me. If I was a contractor this would be a perfect jobsite compressor for daily abuse. Also if I were a contractor I'd be a "time is money" guy and would never put this much time into a hobby, I'd buy some junk from the big-box and replace it in a year. I don't value my free time like someone in a trade does. If you want to hire me for work that's different but this is fun/relaxing for me.

I'm going over the top with this compressor because it's going to be a gift and he doesn't have the room for anything bigger. Also it'll be his first compressor so he won't know any better. I shoved over 50 feet of 1/2" copper into an aftercooler so that plus the dryers should get fairly dry air down to his loading stations and the pneumatic loader I'm also building for him. It'll be the gift that keeps giving. We own a bunch of same/similar firearms. I don't have the room he does for loading stations, etc but this way all I have to do is collect my brass.

We'll see. A 300cfm fan will be plenty fine to cool an aftercooler and supplimental compressor cooling.
 

American Locomotive

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As others mentioned, just get a direct 240V "muffin" fan. They come in many different sizes. Popular brands are ones like Comair-Rotron, Ametek Rotron, Nidec, Delta and others.

You will want a fuse - a cheap inline 2A fuse holder or whatever would be fine.

have never seen some of the schemes I see here. I got my own, do not have something lime this. I might have thought of some of these brainstorms when I was 20 or under the influence of hard liquor.
What amazes me even more is the quality endorsement for some of these ideas. Most of them are not dangerous but lots of them don't have much value or they have a chain reaction that new guys to this type of thing read of them, think they got to have em not realizing they are a waste of time if it's not a total hobby which is a different issue.
Plenty of people build aftercoolers for their air compressors. Even many $2000+ compressors do not come with final stage aftercoolers. A 12v 1.2A fan will be capable of a couple hundred CFM, which is is quite a bit of air.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Modesto, CA
Thanks. I wasn't Googling it properly. I changed the text I was putting into search and have found a bunch of cheap $10-$20 fans on fleabay/Prime.

Next question:
How do I do this properly? The 150mm 12V fan I'm looking at says 1.2A @ 12V. I assume a similar 230/240V fan will pull... ~0.06 amps. I'm thinking I probably shouldn't just use 16ga speaker wire and hook that into a 20A 208/240V circuit.

I have a bunch of breadboard stock. I'm not opposed to soldering in a small in-line fuse... (I am capable of Google but do they make 0.1A 240V fuses?) This will be on a 2-pole hot-hot-ground residential 120/240V split phase system. (I've posted before that I have 208Y residential, this compressor is going to be a gift and he's got split phase)

Do I want inline fuses coming off both legs? I'm not looking to send my contraption to UL, do I have to worry about insulation/protection coming off the 20A line leads or can I just run something like solid 14ga copper from 20A 240V hot to fusable links, then solder on whatever gauge the fan has from factory??

Thanks.

fuse size needs to match wire gauge

If using 240v, then yes you need fuses on both legs. If using 120v, only need a fuse on the hot leg. Never use a fuse on the neutral leg.

Yes like a 150mm x 150mm el-cheap-o computer CPU fan. Compressor is belt driven. The compressor flywheel generates (very little) air flow as designed from factory and I want something extra for an aftercooler to remove water. I'm cutting cardboard baffle templates to wrap the compressor motor and aftercooler then will bend/cut something from sheet metal.

I want the CPU fan to interface independently off a thermocouple (probably tapped into oil pan) so when the compressor stops, the fan keeps (quietly but efficiently) cooling the compressor motor and copper coils even if comp isn't running. But yes, a 150-ish mm computer CPU cooling fan.

Any tips on integrating a <1A fan into a 20A circuit? Fuse both leads? Thanks!

a small computer fan will not move much air. Plus you want to use a DC powered fan so then you need a converter which complicates the setup

What is the point in this? To have substantial air flow to cool down the compressed air? Then youre gonna need a lot more air flow.

Plus this is a gift for someone who assumedly doesnt know wiring. So if there is a problem then you would need to go check it out.

Why not keep it simple and get a 240v AC fan and wire in a fuse holder and some fuses?

KISS

Enough air to keep a car engine cool via it's radiator - millions (probably tens of millions) of them in use for that purpose......

Don't short sell a 12V fan.

Thats a false equivalency.

A small 12v computer fan spins at low rpm, has low cfm and is designed to aid the air flow movement inside a small metal box.

A 12v radiator fan is much much larger, has a way higher RPM on high speed mode and is designed to move lots of air in a high temperature environment.

Cannot compare the 2.

Way too undersized to have any practical effect.

Marc

agreed
 

grounded-b

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Enough air to keep a car engine cool via it's radiator - millions (probably tens of millions) of them in use for that purpose......

Don't short sell a 12V fan.

Those automotive radiator fans, draw 20A or more. They have big power relays controlling them and 30A fuses

They move a whole lot more air, than a little "muffin " fan

Steve
 

manwithtools

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A 12", 1250 cfm fan with 80 watts of current draw can be had for $24 dollars on Amazon. That's about 6.5 amps. A 15 amp cheap power supply will run two of them. A 240AC input / 12VDC output 15-20 amp supply can be found for under $50. Makes a nice air moving package for a cooling loop or radiator.

That's less than 20 amps by quite a bit for two fans...

Sent from my Pixel 3 using The Garage Journal mobile app
 
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manwithtools

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Thats a false equivalency.

A small 12v computer fan spins at low rpm, has low cfm and is designed to aid the air flow movement inside a small metal box.

A 12v radiator fan is much much larger, has a way higher RPM on high speed mode and is designed to move lots of air in a high temperature environment.

Cannot compare the 2.

No false equivalency here, I never said that computer fans were equal to radiator fans or other fans. I simply stated that 12 VDC fans were more than capable of moving lots of air. They can do it pretty efficiently too.

I did not read the early bits of the thread, just sberry's standard reply. That's why my reply was regarding 12 volt fans, not computer fans.
 
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