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Experience with HRV ducted to multiple bathrooms

wssix99

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Chicago, IL
My wife and I are looking at using a HRV in our new house, connected to vents in multiple bathrooms. (One on each floor.)

The system comes with low voltage switches for each bathroom where one can turn the HRV up to high speed to act more like a normal bath fan.

Has any one had good/bad experiences with this kind of thing?

My worry is that if someone turns on the switch in a bathroom with a closed door, the HRV system will just pull the extra air from the other bathrooms, (with open doors) defeating the purpose.


I'm wondering if the 2 speed HRV is even a wise choice or if placing bath fans in line with the HRV might be a better way to go.
 
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pseudorealityx

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My opinion is that if you're going through the hassle and cost of a HRV, run it continuously.
 
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wssix99

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The HRV would run continuously on speed #1. The timer switches run the HRV on a higher speed and increase the flow for bath fan use for a timed cycle.

BTW - We're using a Lifebreath 500 DCS system. (The building has high ceilings and is 1/3 commercial space, so we need a larger type of unit.)
 

VHF

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NW Wisconsin
My worry is that if someone turns on the switch in a bathroom with a closed door, the HRV system will just pull the extra air from the other bathrooms, (with open doors) defeating the purpose.
Switching the HRV to high should increase the air extraction from all bathrooms. The bathroom with the closed door should get make-up air from under the door. This is what happens with a traditional bathroom fan.

I'm wondering if the 2 speed HRV is even a wise choice or if placing bath fans in line with the HRV might be a better way to go.
I would certainly consider a 2-speed HRV for a new house. Putting the bath fans in-line with the HRV might be needed if there are really long duct runs from the bathroom to the HRV. In this case, you would need an interlock relay to switch the HRV to high speed when any of the bathroom fans was on, and you would probably also need a one-way damper in the line from each bathroom so the exhaust air from one bathroom doesn't blow back into another bathroom where the bathroom fan is off. I am actually considering doing something like this to retrofit an HRV to my existing house.

I visited a Passive House which uses a continuously operating HRV for heating and cooling as well as ventilation. Surprisingly, they did not provide a manual high-speed control in the bathrooms, but they did have one in the hallway for "high occupancy" mode when you throw a party.

One more thing to consider when using an HRV for bathroom ventilation is what defrost strategy does the HRV use? When the outside air is very cold, the outgoing humid air stream going thru the HRV is cooled below freezing by the cold incoming air. The humidity in the outgoing stale air forms frost in the heat exchanger and can eventually block the air flow.

Possible defrost strategies include:

1. Recirculate for defrosting
2. Shut off fresh incoming air during defost cycle
3. Pre-heat the incoming air above 32F
4. Have 2 alternating heat exchanger cores

If using the HRV to exhaust humid/smelly air from the bathroom, you probably don't want strategy 1. (recirculate) because the stale air from the bathroom would be recirculated back into the house.

Strategy 2 shuts of the incoming air for a few minutes until the heat exchanger warms up from the exhaust air. During this time, the HRV basicly operates like an exhaust fan. This does unbalance the air flow in the house for a few minutes, but exhausting of stale air in maintained.

Strategy 3 pre-warms the incoming air above freezing, which prevents cooling the warm stale exhaust air to the point where frost builds up. This is commonly done with an electric element to pre-warm the incoming air, but the incoming air can also be tempered with a ground water loop with a heat exchanger. I've seen a ground water loop used on a Passive House in Wisconsin to pre-warm the incoming cold fresh air to the HRV in the winter, and to provide the entire cooling for the house in the summer. (No heat pump involved, just 600' of PEX burried 8' deep circulating a water-glycol solution to use the 50F ground temperature for pre-heating in winter and cooling in summer.)

I am not aware of any HRVs that currently use Strategy 4, but I have seen it written up in a paper, and expect it to eventually show up in a commercial product. With alternating heat exchanger cores, one core is active while the other is allowed to warm up letting any accumulated frost melt. Every few minutes, the cores are switched.

For a northern Illinois climate, an HRV using strategy 2 for defrost with high speed controls in each bathroom is probably the most practical solution. You would want to have a stale air pickup in the kitchen (but not too close to the stove) and maybe the laundry/utility room as well as in each bathroom. Fresh air that has been warmed by the HRV can either be ducted directly to each bedroom and living area, or fed into the forced air system ductwork.
 
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wssix99

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Thanks for your comments!

Switching the HRV to high should increase the air extraction from all bathrooms. The bathroom with the closed door should get make-up air from under the door. This is what happens with a traditional bathroom fan.

Right. I'm just thinking that the resistance of the air flowing underneath the door in one room will be enough so that more air is pulled from the open rooms. Underneath the door, we're looking at a 16 in2 opening vs. 2500 in2 at the open doors.

Normally I wouldn't sweat it so much, but I really really smell bad in the bathroom! ;)

I recall that the unit we are using has a heating element to control frosting and will also give us a master switch to change the rate of flow. It gives us a lot of flexibility as we'll be in a very tight ICF house and don't have many good resources for definitively sizing the equipment.

The only thing we are really worried about is how well this HRV will perform as a bath fan if its connected to multiple rooms. (My alternative would be using relays and dampers.) I may just plan for that as we do our ducting and make allowances for installing dampers after we've lived there for a while - if needed.
 

the_saint

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Thanks for your comments!



Right. I'm just thinking that the resistance of the air flowing underneath the door in one room will be enough so that more air is pulled from the open rooms. Underneath the door, we're looking at a 16 in2 opening vs. 2500 in2 at the open doors.

Normally I wouldn't sweat it so much, but I really really smell bad in the bathroom! ;)

I recall that the unit we are using has a heating element to control frosting and will also give us a master switch to change the rate of flow. It gives us a lot of flexibility as we'll be in a very tight ICF house and don't have many good resources for definitively sizing the equipment.

The only thing we are really worried about is how well this HRV will perform as a bath fan if its connected to multiple rooms. (My alternative would be using relays and dampers.) I may just plan for that as we do our ducting and make allowances for installing dampers after we've lived there for a while - if needed.


Most of the new homes in our town are built and work like you describe with no issues.

With winters dropping into the -30F there is no real issue.

We are currently building a new house and it will have an HRV system that also acts to 'vent' the bathrooms. I don't anticipate any issues at all.
 
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Blk88GT

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Manitoba
I've got 3 bathrooms and 1 HRV. It works, but not as well as I expected when taking a hot shower. My bathroom has 4 windows and they all fog up. The mirror is fine though.

Very scientific, I know ;)
 
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wssix99

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I've got 3 bathrooms and 1 HRV. It works, but not as well as I expected when taking a hot shower. My bathroom has 4 windows and they all fog up. The mirror is fine though.

Very scientific, I know ;)

Thanks! Do you have the multi-speed option for the bathrooms?
 

the_saint

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Most of the new homes in our town are built and work like you describe with no issues.

With winters dropping into the -30F there is no real issue.

We are currently building a new house and it will have an HRV system that also acts to 'vent' the bathrooms. I don't anticipate any issues at all.

After being in the house for 6 months, the HRV works as advertised, with no frost build up on the windows.

With the temps outside dropping below -20F there is still no frost on the windows when using the showers as long as you 'kick up' the HRV to the high setting.
 

Cannonball

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Aug 12, 2010
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Alberta, Canada Eh!
We have a system that draws from the three baths and returns via the duct work. System is in service all the time on low speed.
It has high speed timers for the baths (20 min).
When I shower it keeps the humidity out of the bath fine. When the wife showers the bathroom fogs up bad. She does use pretty much straight hot water. Not sure how she stands the heat. :FIREdevil
It does not clear bath odours as well as or older house did with roof vent fans, but it will given enough time. I know others that have said the same.
We get -40 here and never had any issue with freeze up. The system has a defrost cycle that uses a recirc. damper in the unit.
Just be sure to check your filters (if equiped.) looked at mine the other day and it was almost completely plugged with mosquitoes from the summer.
 
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