Exposed Romex?

[StaggeringGoat]

I want to install some extra lights in my shop. Currently there is about 500 watts of T8s installed on the ceiling. The wiring for the lights is exposed on the ceiling. Most of it is inside EMT, but there's a peice of bare romex going from the junction box to each light. (see pic)

Is it ok to have romex exposed like that? Or does it need to be inside some kind of conduit?

Basically I want to install more lights the same way...I'm just wondering if that is right or not?

 

[MrMark]

Seems fine up there. Nothing is going to damage it. But, this is one of those interpretive things whether a wire needs physical protection.

 

[StaggeringGoat]

So the NEC doesn't specifically say? In my opinion it's perfectly safe, just not sure if it would pass an inspection.

 

[MrMark]

The NEC states that it must be protected from physical damage where subject to physical damage, or something close to that. Whether it is subject to damage is a matter of opinion. The NEC makes exactly the same statement for MC cable that everyone seems to think is OK on the ceiling. The problem is that some people for some reason they can't explain think MC cable is OK but romex is not. I even bought MC cable to put through trusses exposed to avoid any problems with opinions.

 

[wolflrv]

My whole shop is exposed romex like that strung across the tops of the rafters. According to my buddy that did the install for me, as long as they have those white anchor pins, it's fine. Shop was arbitrarily inspected a couple of years later by a nosy inspector who was out inspecting some other work being done and the whole job passed with flying colors. I'd say you're fine with it.

 

[nehog]

I think you are OK, as the purlin (or whatever that piece is...) protects the wire from damage from below. If the wire was simply laid out on the ceiling, it would have to be protected, usually 1x2s are put on each side of the wire.

 

[Aceman]

That definitely looks like a homeowner job!

If a guy is going to take the time to pipe across the ceiling, I'd at least use MC cable from the box to the light. That Romex looks like ****.

But, the best way would of been to stub a pipe into the ends of each light right out of the box and then eliminate the splices in the box.

 

[tfi racing]

Up here,any NMD below 1.5m(5ish')needs to be protected.It may not look the best,but would conform.

 

[richtersrodz]

Wow.. harsh.. Don't let Aceman around my work.
He may make me cry..

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Wow.. harsh.. Don't let Aceman around my work.
He may make me cry..

Its a steel building for one, and the EMT that is there looks pretty good, but it looks like someone tried to add lights after the fact, and didn't have a clue how except to run the romex.

It does look like a homeowner job.

Charles

 

[StaggeringGoat]

but it looks like someone tried to add lights after the fact, and didn't have a clue how except to run the romex.

I think that's what happened. There are other junction boxes in the ceiling where there are no lights but it looks like there should be. Whoever did the lights didn't do the EMT. Not a "homeowner" job though, this is part of a multi-million dollar shop condo complex.

My place was originally planned to have a spray booth, but then the city wouldn't allow that last minute. They did install an explosion proof heater though and probably were planning for explosion proof lighting that never happened.

 

[Grazz256]

Why not pipe it? It looks like a straight run for the box to the light, and it will look 50x better.

On a side note, you wouldn't use romex in conduit (I believe its even against code), you run 3 single conductors.

 

[nehog]

For Romex in a conduit, you should ask your local building inspector, they will probably allow it for your particular case (short run, dedicated circuit).

 

[MrMark]

Romex in conduit is common. I have seen it in quite a few tract houses. Installed that way new.

 

[cowboyjosh]

Local AHJ inspectors would call you out on exposed Romex around here (CO). Also down the road when you sell a ******* Home Inspector will wet his pants and jump up and down when he spots the eposed Romex, he will definately write it up as a deficiency and want a license to repair it.

 

[sdowney717]

they would not like it here in Newport News Va.
I wonder though being way up there nothing is going to harm it.
I was told flat out no exposed romex in a garage.
Yet they have no problem if it is behind thin weak sheetrock because it is more protected from something jabbing it.
Guess what, still posting so I have not electrocuted myself yet, or maybe I am thick skinned.

 

[MoonRise]

Ummm, commercial/shop use codes usually do not even allow Romex (more correctly called NM or NM-B).

YMMV and your electrical codes may be different.

Also, in almost every locale in the US, there is no resident homeowner exemption for doing 'commercial' electrical work. ALL commercial/industial/shop/apartment/etc work is supposed to be done by licensed electricians, not the owner/occupant. Again, YMMV (but I doubt it).

 

[eriksalo]

This is a difficult problem. I don't think it would pass inspection, however in practice I'll bet it's perfectly safe.

There is also a potential problem with putting Romex in conduit. That's not allowed outside or underground and opinions vary as to the legality of doing it inside.

I believe the only truly code compliant way to do this is to put individual wires in EMT.

 

[StaggeringGoat]

Also, in almost every locale in the US, there is no resident homeowner exemption for doing 'commercial' electrical work. ALL commercial/industial/shop/apartment/etc work is supposed to be done by licensed electricians, not the owner/occupant. Again, YMMV (but I doubt it).

I have a handfull of electrical projects that I plan on doing and then getting a cheap electrician to do the final hookup, inspection, and get the permits. I'm only doing that because the owner's unit is next door and he'll see the lights...

It would take me longer to explain to an electrician what I want done and exactly how, and then check his work, than it would to just do it myself.

 

[Aceman]

I have a handfull of electrical projects that I plan on doing and then getting a cheap electrician to do the final hookup, inspection, and get the permits. I'm only doing that because the owner's unit is next door and he'll see the lights...

It would take me longer to explain to an electrician what I want done and exactly how, and then check his work, than it would to just do it myself.

Do you really think any electrician with any common sense is going to do the "final hookup" and pull the permits on a project you wired? Only an idiot would take on that liability.

I'd probably start by looking on Craigslist...

 

[Norcal]

Do you really think any electrician with any common sense is going to do the "final hookup" and pull the permits on a project you wired? Only an idiot would take on that liability.

I'd probably start by looking on Craigslist...

Agreed, that is asking for trouble & there is no money in it for the trouble, since they would "own" the job....

 

[StaggeringGoat]

Do you really think any electrician with any common sense is going to do the "final hookup" and pull the permits on a project you wired? Only an idiot would take on that liability.

That's why the electrician is (getting paid) to inspect and test it.

 

[v8garage]

ALL[/B] commercial/industial/shop/apartment/etc work is supposed to be done by licensed electricians, not the owner/occupant. Again, YMMV (but I doubt it).

Just because it is that way in NJ doesn't mean it is that way "in almost every locale in the US". I will agree that in most cities in the US it is that way but not in the rural unincorporated areas.

 

[dittle fart around]

Install a 4x4 full size box extension , just like adding another box but this one only has the sides, on the bottom of the existing junction box. Install a twenty amp twist lock outlet in the box extension. Then add a twist lock extension cord out the closest end of the fixture. Twist lock so the plug doesn't fall out. Now your up to code and you can change out the fixtures in the future or move them where you need them.

 

[mrb]

That's why the electrician is (getting paid) to inspect and test it.

who in their right mind would put their license and livelyhood on the line to make $200 off you?

 

[Grumpy365]

As a spinoff, I never figured how a inspector ( or NEC) thinks romex is safer stapled to a wall stud than hanging loose in the middle of a wall.

When someone goes to hang drywall or even a picture, they are aiming for the stud and routinely miss by a smidge.

I think you are far more likely to miss the stud and hit & pierce a wire secured to a stud, than if the wire was loose in the wall cavity. PLUS if you try to drive a nail into loose wire with some swing to it, is much more difficult than driving a nail into wire that is secured to a stud.

And for the record I always secure my wires.

 

[donnie]

Do you really think any electrician with any common sense is going to do Only an idiot would take on that liability.

I'd probably start by looking on Craigslist...

When are you available?

 

[nehog]

As a spinoff, I never figured how a inspector ( or NEC) thinks romex is safer stapled to a wall stud than hanging loose in the middle of a wall. ...

It is because when stapled you know where it is, if not stapled and floating then it could be anywhere... In that case, anything (nail, screw, etc.) that penetrated the wall might hit a wire.

 

[Grazz256]

Install a 4x4 full size box extension , just like adding another box but this one only has the sides, on the bottom of the existing junction box. Install a twenty amp twist lock outlet in the box extension. Then add a twist lock extension cord out the closest end of the fixture. Twist lock so the plug doesn't fall out. Now your up to code and you can change out the fixtures in the future or move them where you need them.

We do this with high bay lights, it works great and its easy to swap out a fixture if it breaks.

 

[Grumpy365]

It is because when stapled you know where it is, if not stapled and floating then it could be anywhere... In that case, anything (nail, screw, etc.) that penetrated the wall might hit a wire.

Ya, I know right where the wire is, 1" from where I need to place a nail, fastned so it won't give when I hit it.

 

[slip knot]

This is one area where having a good working relationship with the trades comes in handy. I have an electrician that will pull permits for me and will inspect my work for a marginal fee. I've also had him and his crews completely rewire houses for me in the past and have always paid what was asked. If its over my head He gets the call and if not I take care of it and he signs off. Its a mutual trust thing. He trusts me to know my limitations and I know that he's not going to take advantage of me. My plumbers the same. It really does pay to find a good tradesman and get on his good side. Now if I could just find a good painter that didn't need bail money prior to the work i'd be golden.

 

[38Chevy454]

Is there some part of the code that states if above a certain height (my memory seems to think I have heard 8 ft as the limit?), then exposed romex is acceptable? Or is that old and been superceded? Since the example pic shows wiring on the ceiling, I am sure it is above 8 ft.

I do agree being all in coinduit would look cleaner, but looks vs code is the question here.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

NEC does not expressly forbid Romex or cable or cord in conduit, and in fact, gives information on how to calculate the fill of conduit using cable (Romex is a trademarked name for a brand of cable) or cord, so if the code condones it by specifying conduit fill calculations for it, then it must be OK.

Charles