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Exposing buried line without damage?

Innovate1

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Jul 28, 2014
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Illinois near St. Louis, Missouri
Had the utilities marked and will be working close to an incoming gas line. Can probe around for the bigger lines but this is very small and plastic. How do you find the line and dig around it without damaging it? Seems like it would be very easy to nick it while removing the dirt. Very carefully of course...
 
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RPH

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Dec 17, 2006
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Michigan Thumb
Does the smaller line have a tracing wire with it? If so, you can try a fox and Hound wire tracing System to let you know your close. I got mine, a Fluke model at HD for $75.00.
Real handy once you learn to use it.
 

twistedstang

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Lexington, MI
Most utilities require you hand dig or hydro excavate within 25 or 50 feet of their markings. Keep in mind the markings are an estimate at best.
 

racerex

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NY
As stated above, hand dig. Also be careful when using a pick. It’s slow, but you’ll get one heck of a good workout and sleep well.
 

flat350

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illinois
I don't know who locates in your part of the state but up north J.U.L.I.E. marks it and the line can be 18" either side of the mark.
 

readhead

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Durango, Co.
Pot hole with a hydroex. Fast, no damage and some rental yards rent small bumper pull units. Or, slow and steady with a shovel.
 

Chuckster in NJ

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Jan 26, 2010
Messages
2,281
Location
Hunterdon County NJ
Hopefully they laid down a 6” layer of sand on top of the gas line, unless they used a vibratory plow to run the line.

TIP! Keep a garden hose handy and know where the supply cut off is just in case.
 
OP
I

Innovate1

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Illinois near St. Louis, Missouri
There is a tracer wire. That's how to location/marking company does it. We have J.U.L.I.E. (Joint Utility Locating Information for Excavators) here too. I have a cheap locator that only works when close but that will help. No sand, it was plowed in. No way I would use a pick, even carefully. Just slow, careful shovel work I guess and a blunt shovel at that. And, yes, I believe the location services states it may be 18 - 24 inches from where they marked. The line is only about 18 - 24" deep so I doubt they are that far off at that depth but that's all they will give for accuracy.
 

jchetty

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Aug 18, 2005
Messages
431
Location
Central New Jersey
Take your time and hand dig with a shovel. That's the only way it can safely be done.

Yup. This is spot on. If you are not comfortable doing it, maybe a friend or neighbor has experience exposing utilities. It isn’t rocket science but there is a technique to it.

Really depends on the soil and if the utility put sand on top on the gas line. No guarantee there is sand on top.

Dig out the dirt with a hand spade, etc. It'll be slow but safest

Not practical if the soil is hard. If you have shale, this is a no go. If you have clay, your arms will be tired. In my area, gas lines are probably 4.5 feet -6.5 feet under grade. Thankfully, it is usually top and bottom sanded.

Does the smaller line have a tracing wire with it? If so, you can try a fox and Hound wire tracing System to let you know your close. I got mine, a Fluke model at HD for $75.00.
Real handy once you learn to use it.

Can’t really go by this. The tracer wire can be inches or feet off or sometimes it can break.

Most utilities require you hand dig or hydro excavate within 25 or 50 feet of their markings. Keep in mind the markings are an estimate at best.

I think you mean 2-5 feet. This is a valid point. Each state is different. In NJ, if you hit it outside of 24”- it is not on you. The people that mark it have an obligation to be within a tolerance zone. They can’t be be off by more than the allowance and expect you/contractor to not hit it. This is a big deal.

I don't know who locates in your part of the state but up north J.U.L.I.E. marks it and the line can be 18" either side of the mark.

This sounds right.


I've never tried it, but maybe an air spade like they use for aerating roots on trees?

Absolutely not. If you are disturbing the soil within the tolerance zone, you must locate the utilities first by non-mechanized means first.

This is what you can do. Find out what the tolerance zone is in your state. In mine, 18-24”. So I take a tape measure and measure 25” on each side and take a picture. Then I am free to dig outside of this by whatever means.

Any marks that you will disturb by digging- you have to preserve. Mark it on the outside of the digging area. You can dig outside the area and see if find the trench. Usually, the utilities dig a service trench and bottom sand plus top sand the utility. So if you find sand or really clean soil, use a hand trowel.

You may get super lucky and they laid a gas line tape above the line. That is the way you are supposed to do it in my area but it varies. If you post a good pic of your mark outs, we can you a better idea on how to proceed.

If you can’t find the service trench, you have to dig within the tolerance zone. Here you have to be careful. No guarantee how deep or if there is a sand or caution tape above. Don’t dig right on top of the gas mark. Work from one side to another and remove the soil. Since the line is plastic, it should either be sanded or in a conduit.

If you are still not sure- you could have them mark where the gas line comes up from the ground to your gas meter. They usually call this a sweep. Carefully follow it down until it turns and it flattens out. Now you have an idea of how deep it should be. So like 6 inches before you hit that mark, use a hand trowel.
 
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casmurbax

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Sep 25, 2012
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Location
Wilton, NY
How far down and how long of an area are you looking to dig up?

I just recently had to do some digging near my gas line. I use a shop vac after I got the grass out of the way, worked very well.

edit:

as mentioned depends on your soil, mine is sandy, very little rocks/stones.
 
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Monza Harry

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Dec 29, 2018
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1,433
Location
Windsor ON
Start where the gas line comes up to the meter, and dig beside it [with a safety margin] and shovel/push the soil above into the excavated trench for the machine to remove, the line shouldn't have any crazy 90* turns and they should show with the locate, this way the machine does the heavy work and the hand work is just to destabilize the dirt above the line, That's how the excavator operator did my foundation "Reveal" You can also undermine in the trench to insure there are no surprises, that was HARD work in the soil here at my house, [sand clay mix with a lot of stone]. The first dig around the line/meter will still be a lot of hard digging but should reveal the line making machine excavating much safer/easier. The operator can also try and break up the hard pack with the machine to make this easier shovelling as well. I hope this makes that ugly job a little easier. Harry
 

twistedstang

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Lexington, MI
I think you mean 2-5 feet. This is a valid point. Each state is different. In NJ, if you hit it outside of 24”- it is not on you. The people that mark it have an obligation to be within a tolerance zone. They can’t be be off by more than the allowance and expect you/contractor to not hit it. This is a big l.

No, I meant 25-50. The majority of utilities dont, but pipeline utilities do. High pressure liquid and gas. It's very possible for a locate to be off by more than 2'. The locater signal can be distorted by another piece of metal underground, overhead power lines, and even the moisture content in the ground.

The pipeline company I work for requires someone on site if you plan on digging within 50' of our line. And yeah, it runs through residential areas.
 

matt_i

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Mar 14, 2008
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10,724
Location
SE Michigan
This is what Indiana Jones used to do before he got into adventure.

Carefully unearth and dust off dinosaur bones (etc) without destruction of the valuable asset.

Start with roughing tools and go down to sensitive finishing tools.
 

DuluthMachineWorks

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Mar 7, 2019
Messages
152
Location
Duluth, GA
If you have a pressure washer, you can use it plus a shop vac as a DIY hydro excavator. It’ll be muddy difficult work, but very low risk of damage. This is what the pros do to expose utilities when using a vac truck. Using some gentle hand excavation is helpful to get close.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal
 

reader2580

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Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
14,516
Location
Minneapolis, MN
My yard is 100% fine sand as far down as you can dig. When I put in a new electrical conduit to my detached garage I dug very carefully by hand with a shovel and methodically in the area where the gas and electrical lines were marked. Sand is a lot easier to dig than clay and other materials so I didn't have to use a lot of force with my shovel.

I had to place my electrical conduit about 12" under the gas line because of the slope near my house. I would rather have had more separation, but not much of a choice.
 

jfish

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Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Messages
342
Location
Tacoma WA
I'm a ditch digger by trade...

Listen to jchetty.

If the line has been located. Roll up your sleeves and hand dig.

Just when you think you can't find it. Dig another 6". Repeat.

Yup. This is spot on. If you are not comfortable doing it, maybe a friend or neighbor has experience exposing utilities. It isn’t rocket science but there is a technique to it.

Really depends on the soil and if the utility put sand on top on the gas line. No guarantee there is sand on top.



Not practical if the soil is hard. If you have shale, this is a no go. If you have clay, your arms will be tired. In my area, gas lines are probably 4.5 feet -6.5 feet under grade. Thankfully, it is usually top and bottom sanded.



Can’t really go by this. The tracer wire can be inches or feet off or sometimes it can break.



I think you mean 2-5 feet. This is a valid point. Each state is different. In NJ, if you hit it outside of 24”- it is not on you. The people that mark it have an obligation to be within a tolerance zone. They can’t be be off by more than the allowance and expect you/contractor to not hit it. This is a big deal.



This sounds right.




Absolutely not. If you are disturbing the soil within the tolerance zone, you must locate the utilities first by non-mechanized means first.

This is what you can do. Find out what the tolerance zone is in your state. In mine, 18-24”. So I take a tape measure and measure 25” on each side and take a picture. Then I am free to dig outside of this by whatever means.

Any marks that you will disturb by digging- you have to preserve. Mark it on the outside of the digging area. You can dig outside the area and see if find the trench. Usually, the utilities dig a service trench and bottom sand plus top sand the utility. So if you find sand or really clean soil, use a hand trowel.

You may get super lucky and they laid a gas line tape above the line. That is the way you are supposed to do it in my area but it varies. If you post a good pic of your mark outs, we can you a better idea on how to proceed.

If you can’t find the service trench, you have to dig within the tolerance zone. Here you have to be careful. No guarantee how deep or if there is a sand or caution tape above. Don’t dig right on top of the gas mark. Work from one side to another and remove the soil. Since the line is plastic, it should either be sanded or in a conduit.

If you are still not sure- you could have them mark where the gas line comes up from the ground to your gas meter. They usually call this a sweep. Carefully follow it down until it turns and it flattens out. Now you have an idea of how deep it should be. So like 6 inches before you hit that mark, use a hand trowel.
 

johninct

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Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
2,593
I am sure your line was installed in a way to make it the easiest for the installer to install so expect anything....
 

sberry

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Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
Never been laid off. :beer:

Dig to live and live to dig.

My Buds son, a bright kid got a gravy job when work was really good.
said hell with that digging stuff. Work came to a slow grind, he figured he was a genius pipe bender. Wondered why they kept a kid not so bright.
I watch a crew a while back, the helper dug like a maniac for 2 or 3 hrs then they had him sit on the tailgait of the truck for a good part of the rest of the day.
Another bud, a plumma said one of the best jobs he ever had was digging, said they hooked him up with lazy old fart no one really wanted to work with and said he was done well before lunch most days and then they rode around in the truck till it was time to go back to the shop. We had to dig a line in for something and it was easy to see he went in to auto pilot on a shovel still after 35 years 9in the biz.
 
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