Hi,
You have a great site here - some impressive garages! I've been reading for months, and slowly getting my garage together. It is very modest compared to a lot of the stuff you have going on here.
The garage is a 28x28 attached, with 10'-6" ceilings, 2x6 16" OC construction. It has two 10'Wx8'H insulated overhead doors, an insulated man door on one side and another fire code rated man door into the house. The upstairs has 4' knee walls and rafters, so it has space to expand if I want to in the future (future man cave?).
When we built a couple of years ago, I had to cut back on electrical expenditures for budget reasons. I ended up only getting a couple of bare overhead lights, a single GFCI outlet and the garage door openers (plug in) wired direct off a single 20 amp breaker in the house panel. It has gotten me by, but there are times where it has been a real hassle (like when using my table saw and the radio the breaker trips and I have to traipse inside down to the basement flip the breaker and back, ugh).
I'd like to upgrade to a better power setup. I like to work on vehicles, have a maxjax lift, do some hobby welding (MIG/TIG) and like to do carpentry (table saw, planer, jointer, drill press) and fantasize about having some machine tools someday. All that requires power and the single 20A circuit with extension cords run across the floor is getting really old.
So, this summer I rough wired in outlets every two stud bays, insulated with fiberglass bats, and sheetrocked over it with 5/8 fire code gypsum. I'm still in the "finishing" stages on the sheetrock - I still need to do some more mudding, sanding and paint. I'm going to start with some white left over semi-gloss interior paint and see how far that gets me. Might as well use what I have, right?
I just wired in 20A outlets this weekend, but they aren't connected to any power yet.
To make this all useful, I would like to extend power to a subpanel in the garage. I live in a rural area of a state that does not have inspections or require permits for work like this if done by the homeowner, so I think I am good there.
I am not an electrician, but get the basics and have extended power to a detached garage a couple of years ago, so this will be the second time (similar but not the same).
In terms of planning for near term needs, I plan to install more overhead lighting - inexpensive dual bulb fluorescent T8 fixtures, probably in three separate switched circuits (left bay, right bay, workbench). I am tempted to mount some flourescent fixtures on the walls too, but haven't thought through that fully (and haven't cleared that with my wife either). I'll probably also add some additional task lighting too, especially over the main bench. I'm in the Northeast and things get chilly, so I will also need a circuit for the fan on a heater (most likely an overhead propane unit - Mr. Heater/Modine/Hot Dawg/etc. type)
The house panel is right next to the garage in the basement (within 2' of the adjacent wall). It is a 200 amp Square D QO panel - all the wiring is less than 3 years old and done up to national code by a properly licensed master electrician.
The new garage subpanel will be less than 8' away in a straight line, but more like 10-12' as the wiring will run. Up to the joists, through a couple of floor joists, pass through a hole with a 90 degree-ish bend in the wall and up into the bottom of the subpanel.
I'm planning on another Square D QO panel (so I can use the same breakers) - 100A with 20 space with main breaker (QO120M100C). I'm doing that rather than main lug because I want a primary disconnect for the garage. I'd like to be able to shut everything off in a hurry if I need to.
My plan is to buy a 100A breaker for the main panel, run the wire through the wall to the subpanel where it will branch out to the various garage circuits. I won't need anywhere near 20 breakers, but I want the room to expand if I want and the incremental cost is minimal.
If I understand correctly, since this is an attached garage I will separate the ground and neutral on separate bus bars and will NOT use the green bonding screw. I will also not put in separate ground rods at the subpanel.
Here is my main question - wire size... When I did the detached garage the stiff was massive three wire cabling 4/0-4/0-4/0 AL or something like that (can't remember exactly) - maybe because of voltage drop over the 100'? I'm hoping with the shorter run it is less massive stuff.
Looking at the NEC, it looks for 75 deg C rating columns, if I read the tables correctly, I need to run either #3 copper or #1 aluminum.
I believe it will have to be a four wire/three conductor, bare ground wire. Two hot wires, a neutral and a ground. I think that means either SER round in the aluminum or NMB if I go copper, but I'm not sure about that. So far, I can only find #2 copper with ground, so I may have to go up to that size.
If I go aluminum, I have the paste that you're supposed to use and am aware of the need to retorque the lugs. Since it is only 10-12' between panels I am going to price out copper though, and if affordable I'd prefer to go in that direction.
Does that sound right?
Thanks,
Charlie
You have a great site here - some impressive garages! I've been reading for months, and slowly getting my garage together. It is very modest compared to a lot of the stuff you have going on here.
The garage is a 28x28 attached, with 10'-6" ceilings, 2x6 16" OC construction. It has two 10'Wx8'H insulated overhead doors, an insulated man door on one side and another fire code rated man door into the house. The upstairs has 4' knee walls and rafters, so it has space to expand if I want to in the future (future man cave?).
When we built a couple of years ago, I had to cut back on electrical expenditures for budget reasons. I ended up only getting a couple of bare overhead lights, a single GFCI outlet and the garage door openers (plug in) wired direct off a single 20 amp breaker in the house panel. It has gotten me by, but there are times where it has been a real hassle (like when using my table saw and the radio the breaker trips and I have to traipse inside down to the basement flip the breaker and back, ugh).
I'd like to upgrade to a better power setup. I like to work on vehicles, have a maxjax lift, do some hobby welding (MIG/TIG) and like to do carpentry (table saw, planer, jointer, drill press) and fantasize about having some machine tools someday. All that requires power and the single 20A circuit with extension cords run across the floor is getting really old.
So, this summer I rough wired in outlets every two stud bays, insulated with fiberglass bats, and sheetrocked over it with 5/8 fire code gypsum. I'm still in the "finishing" stages on the sheetrock - I still need to do some more mudding, sanding and paint. I'm going to start with some white left over semi-gloss interior paint and see how far that gets me. Might as well use what I have, right?
I just wired in 20A outlets this weekend, but they aren't connected to any power yet.
To make this all useful, I would like to extend power to a subpanel in the garage. I live in a rural area of a state that does not have inspections or require permits for work like this if done by the homeowner, so I think I am good there.
I am not an electrician, but get the basics and have extended power to a detached garage a couple of years ago, so this will be the second time (similar but not the same).
In terms of planning for near term needs, I plan to install more overhead lighting - inexpensive dual bulb fluorescent T8 fixtures, probably in three separate switched circuits (left bay, right bay, workbench). I am tempted to mount some flourescent fixtures on the walls too, but haven't thought through that fully (and haven't cleared that with my wife either). I'll probably also add some additional task lighting too, especially over the main bench. I'm in the Northeast and things get chilly, so I will also need a circuit for the fan on a heater (most likely an overhead propane unit - Mr. Heater/Modine/Hot Dawg/etc. type)
The house panel is right next to the garage in the basement (within 2' of the adjacent wall). It is a 200 amp Square D QO panel - all the wiring is less than 3 years old and done up to national code by a properly licensed master electrician.
The new garage subpanel will be less than 8' away in a straight line, but more like 10-12' as the wiring will run. Up to the joists, through a couple of floor joists, pass through a hole with a 90 degree-ish bend in the wall and up into the bottom of the subpanel.
I'm planning on another Square D QO panel (so I can use the same breakers) - 100A with 20 space with main breaker (QO120M100C). I'm doing that rather than main lug because I want a primary disconnect for the garage. I'd like to be able to shut everything off in a hurry if I need to.
My plan is to buy a 100A breaker for the main panel, run the wire through the wall to the subpanel where it will branch out to the various garage circuits. I won't need anywhere near 20 breakers, but I want the room to expand if I want and the incremental cost is minimal.
If I understand correctly, since this is an attached garage I will separate the ground and neutral on separate bus bars and will NOT use the green bonding screw. I will also not put in separate ground rods at the subpanel.
Here is my main question - wire size... When I did the detached garage the stiff was massive three wire cabling 4/0-4/0-4/0 AL or something like that (can't remember exactly) - maybe because of voltage drop over the 100'? I'm hoping with the shorter run it is less massive stuff.
Looking at the NEC, it looks for 75 deg C rating columns, if I read the tables correctly, I need to run either #3 copper or #1 aluminum.
I believe it will have to be a four wire/three conductor, bare ground wire. Two hot wires, a neutral and a ground. I think that means either SER round in the aluminum or NMB if I go copper, but I'm not sure about that. So far, I can only find #2 copper with ground, so I may have to go up to that size.
If I go aluminum, I have the paste that you're supposed to use and am aware of the need to retorque the lugs. Since it is only 10-12' between panels I am going to price out copper though, and if affordable I'd prefer to go in that direction.
Does that sound right?
Thanks,
Charlie