Exterior Door install

[nate379]

What is normal to do for an exterior people door for bituthane, caulking etc?

I have a bit of grace ice/water left from my roof, should I use that on the jam before putting the door in?

The directions I have just say to run a bead of caulk around the frame and jam the door in.

Also when you screw the door in place, normal to screw on the outside of the frame into the wall and on the inside (like there the hinges are?) Everything I read has a different way to do it.

Also when I built the building I ran the OSB about 4" lower than teh floor to tie the wall to the floor (wood floor)

When I put that door in it will make a little but under the door that will be weird to side I think. Any ideas how to take care of that? Cut it first or?

Orange line in pic is the floor, blue door opening, green is where door frame will be when door in installed.

 

[danski0224]

At least 1 full tube of urethane caulk under the door sill.

Wrapping the bottom 12" of wood on the rough opening with ice and water shield wouldn't hurt. Putting it on the whole jamb is pointless.

Do NOT put a bead of caulking between the brickmould trim and vinyl siding J channel.

Best thing you can do that most don't is install a cap flashing above the exterior trim, and either lap properly with building wrap or seal with Protecto Wrap (or similar- like a strip of ice and water shield). Make sure the cap flashing extends beyond the trim 1/4" on each side and the ends are turned down to close.

Remove 1 standard screw from each hinge, and run a 3" screw through the shim and into the rough opening.

Same thing on opposite side.

If your door comes with brickmould attached, some advise caulk under the brickmould at the time of installation. Test fit first.

Here is a link that shows door and window drip cap flashing: http://www.diyadvice.com/diy/siding/prep/flashing/

You can buy this stuff premade in the building materials section, or make your own if you have the tools.

A 1/4" gap between the flashing and the trim is a good thing, that way water drips off instead of being drawn to the trim and down the door... and into the wall.

 

[csp]

Best thing you can do that most don't is install a cap flashing above the exterior trim, and either lap properly with building wrap or seal with Protecto Wrap (or similar- like a strip of ice and water shield). Make sure the cap flashing extends beyond the trim 1/4" on each side and the ends are turned down to close.

^^^^Listen to this, if nothing else^^^^^

 

[nate379]

Do NOT put a bead of caulking between the brickmould trim and vinyl siding J channel.

Why?

I don't think I have seen a siding job that didn't have that done.

What tools do I need for roof felt or bituthane? I'm not following what you are talking about with making something.

 

[danski0224]

Do NOT put a bead of caulking between the brickmould trim and vinyl siding J channel.

Why?

I don't think I have seen a siding job that didn't have that done.

What tools do I need for roof felt or bituthane? I'm not following what you are talking about with making something.

The caulking traps any water that gets behind the siding. I have seen rotten brickmould, window frames and door jambs because someone caulked the brickmould and J channel gap.

Yes, there has usually been some type of installation error above that lets water behind the siding.

As far as making something goes, did you look at the link in the first reply?

You need a drip cap flashing above the door. If you do not buy it, you will need to make it.

The drip cap flashing directs any water behind the siding out.

Water also comes from condensation.

 

[Red05GT]

Another option below the door is to use a piece of cedar or other trim board and paint
to match the brick moulding and door jamb. Run the trim board to outer edge of brick
moulding. This will allow you to run the side J-moulds straight down and not fight a
sill channel or J-mould under the door sill and gives a kick board at the entrance and
a place to pour a small concrete entry pad or treated wood pad.

 

[nate379]

That's a good idea for the sill. Thanks.

I have a landing I made out of PT 2x6 that goes in front of the door.

 

[nate379]

Tried to get the door in today and ended up giving up. I was getting irritated to the point that I was about ready to start lobbing tools.

I don't know WTF is the problem with the door, but I get it in the opening, level the hinge side, level the latch side and somehow the top is way the hell off, like the hinge side is fine and the latch side has a much larger gap.

Going to give it another go tomorrow when there is more light out. I hate it when something simple turns into a PITA

 

[tcianci]

If the gap along the top of the door is not even and it's ok on the hinge side but not the latch side, the sill is probably out of level. If you shim under the sill on the hinge jamb until the gap is even all along the top of the door, you're good to go. As posted, you need to run some 3 inch screws through the hinges and into the jack stud. Be sure to use the holes closest to the weather strip. Running long screws into the holes closest to the hinge pin will put your screws into the **** edge of the sheetrock, buying you nothing as far as holding power. On the latch side, once you get the door set where you want it and nail through the brickmould, peel back the weatherstrip and run some long screws through the jamb into the jack stud on the latch side as well, once you let go of the weather strip, the screws are covered, no need to fill the holes. Be sure to shim solidly behind the jamb where ever you install a screw.

 

[danski0224]

Tried to get the door in today and ended up giving up. I was getting irritated to the point that I was about ready to start lobbing tools.

I don't know WTF is the problem with the door, but I get it in the opening, level the hinge side, level the latch side and somehow the top is way the hell off, like the hinge side is fine and the latch side has a much larger gap.

Going to give it another go tomorrow when there is more light out. I hate it when something simple turns into a PITA

Level or plumb? There is a difference.

Something is not level, and possibly something is out of square.

 

[Red05GT]

Check the sill for level. Sounds as though it's sloping to the hinge side. That corner of
the building might have settled a bit since it was first framed. If so you might shim up
that corner of the building with some treated wood shims or metal stock.

 

[nate379]

Building is level.

Don't know what you mean by plumb, but the 2 sides of the frame are level, the bottom is level, but the top ain't.

I'm going to mess with it tomorrow. I didn't have much daylight by the time I got out there and I wasn't in the best mood to begin with. Maybe will go together in 10 mins tomorrow, who knows?

 

[danski0224]

Plumb is vertical.

Level is horizontal.

As previously mentioned, it is possible that the bottom of the door opening is not level.

It is more likely that the vertical studs on either side of the door opening are not plumb.

It does not take much of a change from 90* at any 1 corner to throw off a door opening. You could have an 88* angle between the door sill and rough opening. Two degrees over a 38" rough opening means that the door won't work. You will not see a couple of degrees with a typical cheap or too short level.

Starret makes a nice crown molding protractor that will measure angles- only costs about $50. It is very common to measure a "90*" corner and get a 44* or 46* measurement.

You will have a really hard time trying to get the door jambs plumb with anything less than a 4' level.

It will take shims to get it perfect.

You may reach a point where you eyeball the door jamb to door slab gap to get it right.

Do not look at the door jamb to rough opening gap and try to get that uniform.

The slab on my garage is off by 3/4 of an inch in 20 feet. Yes, it looks level, but it is not. Also hard to see with a 4' level, but the laser told the tale. That error is real easy to see if the siding courses are not cheated at the window openings as you go up.

Doors appear to be simple, but they are not. A couple of coats of paint in the wrong place can keep a door from working. That is the tolerance level of getting a door to work properly.

 

[nate379]

Ok, never heard "plumb" used for vertical, level to me can be horizontal or vertical.

Just using a 6ft level, forget the brand, Stabila I think maybe.

Anyhow the door is installed. I think the door was just **** from the get go and it was making it harder. I guess what do you expect for $125 though?

I had to pretty much rack it in the opening to get the gap correct. With the hinge and latch side 100% level, the top wasn't close.

Shimmed the bottom up on the hinge side a bit and then had to compromise between it being level or not racked. Wasn't off by much but it's like the latch side jam was made too long or something.

After I got it all in, I realized that the freaking door doesn't even sit in the frame true. The weatherstripping is nice and tight on the bottom on both sides, but on the top it's just barely touching. I am going to probably **** can the brass colored hinges for some nickel ones so I will just adjust the top hinge then.

As far as the building being level, when I put the floor in, I got it to within an 1/8" in 20ft. I checked before I put the door in and it was still fine.

 

[tcianci]

You need to check the plumbness of the jambs in both directions, left to right and in and out. Your door is now hitting on the stop at the bottom of the door because the jambs are not in the same plane. If you check the in and out plumb on the hinge side, you will find it is probably different than on the latch side. Ironically, a pre hung door mkes it look like anyone can slap it in but in reality you need to keep everything in a single plane by paying attention to stuff going on in 3 different axis. It ain't as simple as it looks. Sometimes however, we get lucky and get a rough opening that's plumb and square and the door pops right in. Do check the distance from the hinge mortise to the stop at all 3 hinges, every so often you can get one that is mortised incorrectly but usually the type of trouble you're having is mainly pilot error.

 

[nate379]

Ok maybe it's hard to explain on here but everything is level/plumb/square/true.

I know what you are saying, because I was thinking the same as well, but the door has the same problem on the hinge side as it does on the latch side. If I close the door, the frame is level in both directions on both jams but the door is leaning in on the top about 1/8".

There is nothing I can do to the door frame to make the door sit correct other than adjust the top and maybe middle hinge.

My rough opening was as perfect as you can get framing, just the door was apparently put together by a crew of drug addicts at 4:59PM on a Friday. I am sure a guy that puts them in everyday would have not had much trouble getting it to line up, but me trying to learn on a **** door took a bit of time.

Anyhow, door is in, installed the cipher lock and deadbolt as well. Tomorrow going to do a bit of rough in for the electrical so I can close the wall in and I will then be able to install the garage door.

 

[blue dog]

I believe what tcianci is talking about is what i refer to as cross sight. start by screwing the hinge side of the jamb in first, level and plumb, then with shims, shim the jamb gaps on the door so they are equal all the way around the door, run a 4 foot level across the the face of the jamb legs at the floor level, place your speed square on the level and check to see if the jamb legs are square to each other, check that the door touches the stop equally as it closes as opposed to , say , touching at the top and being 3/8 away at the bottom, this is the cross sight. if not adjust and screw the jamb off. Last trick, it the hinge side is bound up a bit or the gap is to big and on the strike side, , stick the fat end of a nail set between the hinges when the door is in the open position, and pull the door towards the closed position slowly and in a small amount at a time. basically you are bending the hinge slightly, do this to all hinges or till the gaps look equal. be careful, you can not bend them back the opposite direction ounce it is done. I would come help you, but according to google maps, you are 3500 miles from Los Angeles. And, i am wearing shorts right now, and you are not.
good luck

 

[nate379]

Actually I'm in my underwear right now

 

[blue dog]

Actually I'm in my underwear right now

don't you guys up north wear leopard print speedo's?

Hope those suggestions helped nate.

 

[Justanoldguy]

The mind boggles that a guy is trying to install a door and has never heard the term "plumb" before. I've been building for 45 years and I think I learn't that on day 1.

 

[blue dog]

The mind boggles that a guy is trying to install a door and has never heard the term "plumb" before. I've been building for 45 years and I think I learn't that on day 1.

you said mind boggles.

 

[MrMark]

This guy is the best I've seen on how to hang a prehung door

http://hwtv.jlconline.com/default.asp?bcpid=1184514373&bclid=1184468643&bctid=1334428887

search on "Frank Caputo". He has a segment on how to install a prehung door.

Here's a good link for the flashing detail

http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jl...emplate/69?c=143ab3c39ebb75ee6567a7f709dcfe7b

The following link shows the proper way to flash a prehung exterior door with bituminous membrane.

http://www.nyashi.com/newsletter/2006/May Files/Rain screen.pdf

Outside of very few select installations for very $$$$$ houses, doors are never done correctly, or even remotely close to correctly, so don't feel bad. You probably did it about the same as the people doing it for a living whether you knew plumb or not.

 

[danski0224]

This guy is the best I've seen on how to hang a prehung door

http://hwtv.jlconline.com/default.asp?bcpid=1184514373&bclid=1184468643&bctid=1334428887

search on "Frank Caputo". He has a segment on how to install a prehung door.

Here's a good link for the flashing detail

http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jl...emplate/69?c=143ab3c39ebb75ee6567a7f709dcfe7b

The following link shows the proper way to flash a prehung exterior door with bituminous membrane.

http://www.nyashi.com/newsletter/2006/May Files/Rain screen.pdf

Outside of very few select installations for very $$$$$ houses, doors are never done correctly, or even remotely close to correctly, so don't feel bad. You probably did it about the same as the people doing it for a living whether you knew plumb or not.

Thanks for all that. Need more time in the day now...

 

[ishiboo]

I am sure a guy that puts them in everyday would have not had much trouble getting it to line up, but me trying to learn on a **** door took a bit of time.

Door installation is one of those things that looks deceptively simple, but when it comes down to it, it's all about experience. No frame is the same, no door is the same, but someone who has done a bunch of doors can make everything work Given a perfectly square frame, and a perfect door, it's still hard to get right your first time.

Chances are the door is fine...

 

[slip knot]

I'll agree that the budget <$200 doors can be a PITA to install. I've got a few over the years that were so far outta square you could see it. I make it a point to measure the jamb lengths and sill widths before I even buy one now. I've seen some that the jambs were a 1/2 in difference from side to side.

I normally plumb (on both axis) and screw the hinge side on 1st then shim and adjust the rest of the jambs so the door has the same gaps around it. as long as the door fits the opening and opens and closes correctly, I'm good.

 

[nate379]

Yup exactly what the issue with this door was, latch side frame was about 1/4" longer than the hinge side which happened to be what I was off on the top of the door (go figure). I should have checked when I got the door but not something I figured I'd have to check.


As far as me not knowing what plumb is, I have just called it level whether it was horizontal or level, didn't know there was a difference. If I said a wall was level I don't think anyone would correct me and say "no it's not, it's "plumb"!

 

[csp]

If I said a wall was level I don't think anyone would correct me and say "no it's not, it's "plumb"!

They should if they know the difference.

 

[wrigh003]

Outside of very few select installations for very $$$$$ houses, doors are never done correctly, or even remotely close to correctly, so don't feel bad. You probably did it about the same as the people doing it for a living whether you knew plumb or not.

I consider it a matter of personal pride that the exterior doors that I’ve replaced on my house (3 of them so far…) all open and close without binding, and even seal up tight without any additional weatherstrip being added by me. I will say, though, that an adjustable threshold is a remarkable thing, and really helps make the job easier.

Don’t ask me about the interior doors I have put up… those have taken a LOT more work. I think as has been mentioned that the cheapies really take more work to get right because they're not too great to begin with. Plus with interior doors, no threshold on the bottom to hold it together... that's my story and i'm sticking to it.

Level, plumb, and square. Make sure you don’t shim TOO tight (pushing the jambs in) or screw down the hinge side too hard (so that you pull the other side out of where it needs to be). The rough opening should have plenty of space for you to do this. A couple of my exterior doors were particularly "easy-" the rough opening once I got the old door out was just big enough to squeeze the new one in- what shims?. Lucky for me the new ones fit… and also lucky that the old frame was pretty much dead on in terms of being plumb and square.

 

[Justanoldguy]

I like to leave at least a 1/2 inch gap top and sides for shimming.
Then I can fill with expanding foam and get a good insulated airtight seal.

 

[walrus]

As far as me not knowing what plumb is, I have just called it level whether it was horizontal or level, didn't know there was a difference. If I said a wall was level I don't think anyone would correct me and say "no it's not, it's "plumb"!

Maybe its a Maine thing? They get used interchangeably around here. I'd use level for either or plumb for either.

 

[Justanoldguy]

Definition of Plumb.
Plumb, a carpentry term meaning a line which is exactly vertical,
or perpendicular to a level horizontal line
Definition of level:
Level, being in a plane parallel to the plane of the horizon; horizontal.